RE: McMurtry Spéirling takes FOS Hillclimb record
Discussion
jwbc1984 said:
Lots of the old 'Whats this doing here, last time I checked this was called PISTONheads, not VOLTheads' brigade out in force.
I love this - Its a completely new take on making a car go bonkers fast - that should be celebrated on here (to be fair, half of the responses do).
To write this off because it hasnt got 'soul' is absurd, Jeremy clarkson has a lot to answer for when people are lobbing this platitude around, I love seeing this blast up the hill as much as I love seeing James Deans Bmw blitz it sideways and cars like the singer or a mclaren f1 go up the hill.
If you dont like it as its just not your thing, thats fine (I'm just not that into bikes, but I totally get why people are) but Its possible to enjoy evs for what they are rather than hating them for what they're not.
Rubbish. I love this - Its a completely new take on making a car go bonkers fast - that should be celebrated on here (to be fair, half of the responses do).
To write this off because it hasnt got 'soul' is absurd, Jeremy clarkson has a lot to answer for when people are lobbing this platitude around, I love seeing this blast up the hill as much as I love seeing James Deans Bmw blitz it sideways and cars like the singer or a mclaren f1 go up the hill.
If you dont like it as its just not your thing, thats fine (I'm just not that into bikes, but I totally get why people are) but Its possible to enjoy evs for what they are rather than hating them for what they're not.
Apart from one post in this thread, every response has been positive, albeit lamenting the eventual fall of the engine.
Jon_S_Rally said:
leglessAlex said:
Soooo... like horses and steam trains then? 
Petrol ain't going anywhere for a long time I think, I'm pretty optimistic about it.
As for this run, it's awesome and congrats to McMurtry, but as others have said it leaves me a little cold which is a shame. The Pagani Huayra R on the other, Jesus Christ that's a run I could watch (well, listen to) again and again.
Well yes, but that was kind of the point. ICE cars becoming the preserve of the wealthy doesn't sound like a very bright future to me, even though it is some way off and won't effect me that much.Petrol ain't going anywhere for a long time I think, I'm pretty optimistic about it.
As for this run, it's awesome and congrats to McMurtry, but as others have said it leaves me a little cold which is a shame. The Pagani Huayra R on the other, Jesus Christ that's a run I could watch (well, listen to) again and again.
Of course, the EV bubble may have burst like the diesel bubble by 2030, and people could be celebrating a new record set by a hydrogen powered car and the banning of EVs on environmental grounds. Perhaps it will hiss rather than whine. Funny how quickly things can change.
Jon_S_Rally said:
The run was mega. Really impressive, and you can see that it's lack of width really helped it.
Like someone said above though, it does make me a bit sad in a way. I watched a video of the top ten fastest cars up the hill over the weekend, and most of them were EVs. All very impressive in their own way but, when I heard the 911 GT3, I just couldn't help but feel a bit sad. Not taking anything away from the engineering of the electric stuff but, when you hear something like the Porsche screaming up the hill, it makes me realise just how much of my love of cars comes from the ICE. I'm sure some will think that makes me a luddite, but there we are.
Still, well done to all involved with this. Just a shame it looks like one of those squashed up caricatures of a car that were popular a few years ago
Funny you mentioned that as I felt the same way. I kind of skipped through a lot of the EV stuff as it just leaves me cold. Hearing the GT3 cheered me up a bit though. The McMurty was astonishing to watch, I guess as it looks so strange it got my attention. Like someone said above though, it does make me a bit sad in a way. I watched a video of the top ten fastest cars up the hill over the weekend, and most of them were EVs. All very impressive in their own way but, when I heard the 911 GT3, I just couldn't help but feel a bit sad. Not taking anything away from the engineering of the electric stuff but, when you hear something like the Porsche screaming up the hill, it makes me realise just how much of my love of cars comes from the ICE. I'm sure some will think that makes me a luddite, but there we are.
Still, well done to all involved with this. Just a shame it looks like one of those squashed up caricatures of a car that were popular a few years ago
I cant see myself getting the same excitement from EV's. I guess that I will be reading 'classic car' in a few years time
Welshbeef said:
That Group C Jag though - remarkable speed, I winder if we will ever see a Sauber C9/11 Merc trying it’s chances up the hill.
{Imagine group C class only racing up the hill … what an experience that would be}.
Whilst undeniably impressive (and my favourite class of racing), a group C car isn’t an ideal hill climber. Look at the exit speed of the cars, the big jag was only just getting going. At the finish line it was starting to gather serious pace crossing the line at 146.2 mph. That’s a fair bit faster than the other IC cars. Even the mini bat mobile is limited to 150mph.{Imagine group C class only racing up the hill … what an experience that would be}.
The fan car is seriously impressive and I do wonder if it it could go much faster if the human was removed, thus reducing drag and weight, while also allowing the RC operator to take more risks. Get one of the top RC drivers in a helicopter and let’s see what they could do with it, freed from g force limits of the human body and our inbuilt self preservation instinct, I bet they could shave a few seconds off that time still.
ghibbett said:
Just to put the "it's absolutely tiny" into context, it's still bigger than a Caterham 7.*
It looks smaller because it has massive wheels. - just!
It could be made for the road a foot shorter, 6 inches less tall and a little narrow on 13" wheels with two seats and don't bother with the fan and be awesome.
It's a shame the rest of the industry's only design philosophy is, "How do we hide all these massive batteries" rather than building small light and efficient and I doubt this is a step in the right direction for the wider industry, but it's great to see someone stuff like this.
Pebbles167 said:
Yes, I felt this and never so obviously.
I've been fairly optimistic of the electric car, but usually when I see one at a show it's in and amongst classic noisy ICE cars. When the swoosh of electric cars is all we hear, I think I'll truly know the golden years of car culture has passed.
Still, incredible engineering. Well done to them.
TBF we are seeing the end of noise in road cars with or without EV. The new 68dB noise regs and acoustic cameras to enforce them means no one will be able to drive their cars enthusiastically like they can now. I've been fairly optimistic of the electric car, but usually when I see one at a show it's in and amongst classic noisy ICE cars. When the swoosh of electric cars is all we hear, I think I'll truly know the golden years of car culture has passed.
Still, incredible engineering. Well done to them.
Frimley111R said:
Funk said:
IDR = 39.9s
McMurtry = 39.08s
I actually expected it to have blitzed the existing record although I hadn't seen the VW go up the hill.McMurtry = 39.08s
IDR here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8il5ohB8FYk&ab...
Congratulations Sir McMurtry, Max and the whole team!
paulrockliffe said:
...It's a shame the rest of the industry's only design philosophy is, "How do we hide all these massive batteries" rather than building small light and efficient and I doubt this is a step in the right direction for the wider industry, but it's great to see someone stuff like this.
Totally agree. I see Riversimple following this principle, too, with their HFCEV Rasa.Edited by romac on Monday 27th June 10:39
delta0 said:
TBF we are seeing the end of noise in road cars with or without EV. The new 68dB noise regs and acoustic cameras to enforce them means no one will be able to drive their cars enthusiastically like they can now.
Will that limit the use of fans, then? That rather torpedoes this car's ambitions as a road vehicle, such would be a shame.Very impressive car.
With the huge downforce from the fan, I was wondering does it affect drag in the same way big wings do? In those high downforce usually comes at the expense of a high Cd. So does the fan also cause drag (increased friction with road/air interface maybe?) or is it 'cleverer' than a wing, giving you the downforce without the drag penalty? Of course, I assume there's also a power element involved (which a wing doesn't need) to take into account.
Any educated views?
With the huge downforce from the fan, I was wondering does it affect drag in the same way big wings do? In those high downforce usually comes at the expense of a high Cd. So does the fan also cause drag (increased friction with road/air interface maybe?) or is it 'cleverer' than a wing, giving you the downforce without the drag penalty? Of course, I assume there's also a power element involved (which a wing doesn't need) to take into account.
Any educated views?
Amazing achievement by a small team to take the hill record and an astonishingly different and interesting car!
But, it's clear its operating nowhere near its claimed performance:
IDR: 500kW / 1,100kg = 610 bhp/tonne and fixed aero
Spéirling: Clamed 1000bhp / tonne and active aero
The reality of active underfloor aero is that it is REALLY hard to actually make it work on a real track under real conditions, and make it work consistently enough to give a sensible level of safety. The fact the Spéirling has gained a proper topside wing since last year shows this. High DF to mass cars are a nightmare in all honesty. Take the claimed 2 tonnes of downforce that could, theoretically provide 3g of grip, if that disapears then you are suddenly, and irretreviably going 3 times to fast for any corner! Clipping a kerb or a bump, being hit by another car, a flat tyre, or probably even a strong cross wind, any of those things and you are absolutely having a massive accident and there is absolutely nothing the driver can do buy hold on a wait for the impact.
Really this is why active aero is banned in all forms of motorsports. It also leads to boring racing imo, because under those loads tyres cannot be allowed to slide (you become like F1 an entirely 'tyre limited' formula and because ultra short braking distances and driving cleanly become of prime importance.
So whislt the Spéirling is indeed massively impressive, imo it's also irrelevant. Today we can thanks to modern tech pretty much engineer any system to make a car go really pretty much as fast as we want, the issue is that motorsport is not actually about going as fast as possible, but about the human act of trying to go as fast as possible. There is a big difference between the two!
Incidentally for me, this is the car of the show:
Because rather than design the ultimate car and not quite manage to go as fast as it perhaps should, he has taken a completely unsuitable car and made it far far faster than should be expected:
https://youtu.be/mpxP2FEM3HY?t=2109
7 seconds slower than the electric missile, 500% more entertaining !!!
But, it's clear its operating nowhere near its claimed performance:
IDR: 500kW / 1,100kg = 610 bhp/tonne and fixed aero
Spéirling: Clamed 1000bhp / tonne and active aero
The reality of active underfloor aero is that it is REALLY hard to actually make it work on a real track under real conditions, and make it work consistently enough to give a sensible level of safety. The fact the Spéirling has gained a proper topside wing since last year shows this. High DF to mass cars are a nightmare in all honesty. Take the claimed 2 tonnes of downforce that could, theoretically provide 3g of grip, if that disapears then you are suddenly, and irretreviably going 3 times to fast for any corner! Clipping a kerb or a bump, being hit by another car, a flat tyre, or probably even a strong cross wind, any of those things and you are absolutely having a massive accident and there is absolutely nothing the driver can do buy hold on a wait for the impact.
Really this is why active aero is banned in all forms of motorsports. It also leads to boring racing imo, because under those loads tyres cannot be allowed to slide (you become like F1 an entirely 'tyre limited' formula and because ultra short braking distances and driving cleanly become of prime importance.
So whislt the Spéirling is indeed massively impressive, imo it's also irrelevant. Today we can thanks to modern tech pretty much engineer any system to make a car go really pretty much as fast as we want, the issue is that motorsport is not actually about going as fast as possible, but about the human act of trying to go as fast as possible. There is a big difference between the two!
Incidentally for me, this is the car of the show:
Because rather than design the ultimate car and not quite manage to go as fast as it perhaps should, he has taken a completely unsuitable car and made it far far faster than should be expected:
https://youtu.be/mpxP2FEM3HY?t=2109
7 seconds slower than the electric missile, 500% more entertaining !!!
SydneyBridge said:
The end game surely has to be a consumer product, fun, well priced and good range.
all unfortunately pretty much impossible, sorry ;-(Fun has nothing to do with grip, in fact, precisely the opposite - High DF road cars are even more a nightmare than high DF race cars
Well priced requires mass production and careful production engineering - absolutely the opposite skills of motorsports engineers
Good range means a big battery, which means a larger car and a higher cost
It's also worth noting that so far, low occupancy count (single/dual seating) ultra low consumption passenger cars have gained no traction with consumers, because frankly, why not just buy a motorbike which also brings the massive real world benefit of being able to filter through traffic.
Max_Torque said:
...
Incidentally for me, this is the car of the show:
Because rather than design the ultimate car and not quite manage to go as fast as it perhaps should, he has taken a completely unsuitable car and made it far far faster than should be expected:
https://youtu.be/mpxP2FEM3HY?t=2109
7 seconds slower than the electric missile, 500% more entertaining !!!
Thanks, hadn't seen that - it made me laugh and wow, talk about commitment past the flint wall!Incidentally for me, this is the car of the show:
Because rather than design the ultimate car and not quite manage to go as fast as it perhaps should, he has taken a completely unsuitable car and made it far far faster than should be expected:
https://youtu.be/mpxP2FEM3HY?t=2109
7 seconds slower than the electric missile, 500% more entertaining !!!
That Subaru was mightily impressive.
Made me think of the one from the Cannonball run, but the McMurtry was the only thing I have seen that actually moved like that little black Subaru in the film. i.e. sped up massively.
I wouldn't worry about Goodwood becoming all EV, there are 100 year old plus cars running so we are ok for a while yet, and the sheer speed of the McMurtry, that rooster tail of dust that looked like a fighter plane and the noise, ok its not a blaring V8 but it was still pretty amazing and there was no shortage of blaring V8's/
Interesting Max that you think it was perhaps pegged back a bit.
I wonder if it loses downforce, its like your Hoover and they have to stick a new bag in it ?
I wonder if they get it back to the pits and its full of fag ends, lolly sticks and small rodents ?
What do they do with it now ? Is there a market for a massively fast, single seater Batmobile lookalike ? Im sold, its fantastic, its British, just not sure what the motivation was/is ? Showcase, road car ?
Made me think of the one from the Cannonball run, but the McMurtry was the only thing I have seen that actually moved like that little black Subaru in the film. i.e. sped up massively.
I wouldn't worry about Goodwood becoming all EV, there are 100 year old plus cars running so we are ok for a while yet, and the sheer speed of the McMurtry, that rooster tail of dust that looked like a fighter plane and the noise, ok its not a blaring V8 but it was still pretty amazing and there was no shortage of blaring V8's/
Interesting Max that you think it was perhaps pegged back a bit.
I wonder if it loses downforce, its like your Hoover and they have to stick a new bag in it ?
I wonder if they get it back to the pits and its full of fag ends, lolly sticks and small rodents ?
What do they do with it now ? Is there a market for a massively fast, single seater Batmobile lookalike ? Im sold, its fantastic, its British, just not sure what the motivation was/is ? Showcase, road car ?
That was good fun to watch, a tiny little thing that we could tell was really quick just by looking at it.
Shame they didn’t let George Russell and the 2019 Mercedes into the shootout though. It might have been close between them.
(I know the reasons they banned contemporary F1 cars from timed runs, but they’re now allowing cars that are just as fast).
Shame they didn’t let George Russell and the 2019 Mercedes into the shootout though. It might have been close between them.
(I know the reasons they banned contemporary F1 cars from timed runs, but they’re now allowing cars that are just as fast).
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