RE: The best used electric cars to buy right now

[Mikebentley]

DriveSnowdonia said:

Silverage said:

I’ve got an Ioniq 5. I’m just back from 2 weeks in the US driving a Toyota Camry around - I’d forgotten how noisy ICE cars are and how annoying even auto gearboxes can be.

Ahhhhhh, the automatic Toyota Camry, the pinnacle of driving pleasure that it is, has now seemingly been ousted from it's throne!

How did you get to the states? Swim?

[Mikebentley]

For clarity I don’t mind EVs. I quite enjoyed the Corsa E and tried to reserve a Fisker unsuccessfully yesterday.

[Discombobulate]

Have 2 of the cars on the list - i3 and an iPace - and both are great. Taycan tempting but surprisingly big, and too expensive for us.

[WhyOne]

Dombilano said:

mikEsprit said:

Can someone explain why batteries are not standardized commodities, more or less?

I would have expected pre-charged batteries being available at "gas" stations and the process to get back on the road quicker than filling up a tank with fuel whether a consumer or a specialist was in charge of the exchange. Take a battery out, put in a charged one.

I can't imagine ever changing to an electric vehicle so long as it takes more time to recharge than refuel.

Would you fancy removing half a tonne of battery pack from underneath your car?

Happening now in Norway

https://youtu.be/oTXptUuKGrc

[paradigital]

mikEsprit said:

Can someone explain why batteries are not standardized commodities, more or less?

I would have expected pre-charged batteries being available at "gas" stations and the process to get back on the road quicker than filling up a tank with fuel whether a consumer or a specialist was in charge of the exchange. Take a battery out, put in a charged one.

I can't imagine ever changing to an electric vehicle so long as it takes more time to recharge than refuel.

Doesn’t take me any “time” to refuel my Model 3. Get home, plug it in, have dinner, play with the kids, go to sleep, wake up and it’s full*, EVERY SINGLE DAY.

Taking time out of my day specifically to refuel the car sounds wasteful and pointless to me.

Makes me laugh when people complain about recharging times and speed. I can count on one hand the number of times in the last 4.5 months that I’ve charged more than 40% SoC, and only twice “on the road” whereby needing to be on our way again quickly was of importance.

• OK so not 100% full, usually 85% as that’s better for battery longevity.

Edited by paradigital on Sunday 31st July 22:00

Edited by paradigital on Sunday 31st July 22:02

[dunnoreally]

If the Tesla isn't horrifically expensive to maitain after another 5 years of deprectiation then, maybe, I will consider getting an EV. For now, though, when I've got to pay 40% more than my current car cost for a Renault pg Zoe, I can't say I fancy taking the plunge.

[GT9]

Itsallicanafford said:

It pointed the way that EV should be developed but unfortunately looks like it’s all about heavy SUV’s rather than Carbon construction and lightweight EV’s

Even BMW have conceded that carbon fibre is not feasible for very large scale mass production.

They produced 250,000 i3 cars over 10 years, which is a fantastic effort, but that's not a meaningful number in the grand scheme.

Producing and recycling carbon fibre cars at the sort of scale required to meet global demand won't happen. Which is one of the (several) reasons why I don't think we will see hydrogen cars produced in significant numbers. The amount of carbon fibre used in the multiple thick-walled hydrogen fuel tanks of just one fuel cell car is not too dissimilar in mass to the entire body of the i3.

It also become quite clear that the weight of an EV has limited effect on the car's energy needs during use, largely due to the high proportion of kinetic energy recovered by regen. Not nearly as important as the unrecoverable losses, predominantly aero drag.

[Dombilano]

WhyOne said:

Dombilano said:

mikEsprit said:

Can someone explain why batteries are not standardized commodities, more or less?

I would have expected pre-charged batteries being available at "gas" stations and the process to get back on the road quicker than filling up a tank with fuel whether a consumer or a specialist was in charge of the exchange. Take a battery out, put in a charged one.

I can't imagine ever changing to an electric vehicle so long as it takes more time to recharge than refuel.

Would you fancy removing half a tonne of battery pack from underneath your car?

Happening now in Norway

https://youtu.be/oTXptUuKGrc

Not exactly set up to replace the local Esso then, each station holds 14 battery packs. 15th customer is walking

[GT9]

mikEsprit said:

Can someone explain why batteries are not standardized commodities, more or less?

The more advanced EVs use the battery casing as the structural element onto which everything else is attached. This reduces weight and cost as well as probably improving torsional rigidity. Google 'structural batteries'.

There is also the question of competitiveness and brand differentiation. I doubt many manufacturers would be keen to give up such a large portion of their scope of supply to something that could be easily sourced elsewhere.

[James6112]

GT9 said:

Nik Gnashers said:

Edit, just to add, charging a small EV uses 50 times the amount of electricity as a fridge.

Why post something like this, it's so obviously made up.

A fridge uses between 200-400 kWh per year, lets say 300 kWh.

Multiply that by 50, you get 15,000 kWh.

An average EV can travel around 3 miles per kWh.

That gives 45,000 miles. Per year.

When the average mileage in the UK is under 8000...

Back of the net

[cliveju]

themule said:

I do not think science is split on the causes of climate change. Man made climate change caused by carbon dioxide emissions has been accepted as mainstream for decades now. What is debated is the rate at which things are changing - that has surprised scientists recently and wasn't predicted or modelled. Scientists predicted that warming would take decades, enough time for us to come up with a solution. What is becoming increasingly apparent is that it has already happened and the debate is now around how bad it will get and how do we deal with it. Yes, there will always be scientists who disagree, just like there are doctors who say cigarettes are not related to lung cancer, but the vast majority of climate scientists and bodies such as NASA, Antarctic Survey,met office, leading universities around the world all broadly agree.

Here is some further reading on this subject.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jul/3...

[Evanivitch]

mikEsprit said:

Can someone explain why batteries are not standardized commodities, more or less?

I would have expected pre-charged batteries being available at "gas" stations and the process to get back on the road quicker than filling up a tank with fuel whether a consumer or a specialist was in charge of the exchange. Take a battery out, put in a charged one.

I can't imagine ever changing to an electric vehicle so long as it takes more time to recharge than refuel.

For the same reason all cars don't use the same engine?

Batteries are physically shaped to meet the demands of the car design, the technology is proprietary to the manufacturer and developed in an iterative nature, and it's also a valuable commodity that you won't switch with another of unknown pedigree.

[Evanivitch]

ajap1979 said:

Earthdweller said:

I was reading on another forum about car parks

It seems that lots of car parks all over the country actually have weight limits .. usually 1.5 tonnes

The chap who was reporting it stated that every car park in his area has a weight limit and his EV was therefore unable to enter any of the car parks as it contravenes the restrictions

Anyway here’s a random example

https://www.scarborough.gov.uk/home/parking/car-pa...

Interesting I thought

So you wouldn’t even be able to park a Golf R estate in one either…

Or anything Ford Focus sized and larger.

[WhyOne]

Dombilano said:

WhyOne said:

Dombilano said:

mikEsprit said:

Can someone explain why batteries are not standardized commodities, more or less?

I would have expected pre-charged batteries being available at "gas" stations and the process to get back on the road quicker than filling up a tank with fuel whether a consumer or a specialist was in charge of the exchange. Take a battery out, put in a charged one.

I can't imagine ever changing to an electric vehicle so long as it takes more time to recharge than refuel.

Would you fancy removing half a tonne of battery pack from underneath your car?

Happening now in Norway

https://youtu.be/oTXptUuKGrc

Not exactly set up to replace the local Esso then, each station holds 14 battery packs. 15th customer is walking

I'm not saying this is the ideal solution, though I'm quite sure the concept is scalable, I posted in response to a 'why don't they do this?' question.

Having said that, maybe 14 packs are enough for a continuous supply....if it takes a couple of minutes to change 1 battery, that's 28 minutes worth of batteries. If the 1st battery changed in a cycle is recharged inside 28 minutes then you have a continuous supply of batteries.

However you do need to remember that we will need far fewer Esso stations - especially local ones - as most EV's are..and will be .. fueled at home (I appreciate that there are a good many people for whom this is not currently an option).

Our EV's are largely free to fuel for 8 months of the year via domestic solar (system installed in 2015 and paid for itself by 2018), When the sun doesn't shine, we pay 7.5p / kWh via Octopus Go (so for the Tesla just over £5 for ~300 miles range).

Edited by WhyOne on Monday 1st August 04:44

Edited by WhyOne on Monday 1st August 05:18

[Billy_Whizzzz]

DriveSnowdonia said:

Billy_Whizzzz said:

Any chance you could tell us where the ‘science is split’? Genuine question.

It is split across a whole number of issues. Whether or not the world is warming. Whether increased CO2 levels actually leads to increased warming. If the climate is indeed warming then whether the cause is man-made or just part of the natural cycle of things. What will be the likely impacts of global warming. If it is man-made then to what degree is this happening and what are the best solutions to tackle this.

The science is far from settled. Just because (insert public figure) gives us a lecture about how we all shouldn’t fly - because of the climate crisis, before flying off on their private jet to their next paid speaker event, it doesn’t mean that there are not plenty of dissenting scientists who do not agree with the media portrayed consensus. As ever, follow the money, be aware of vested interests, and try to get your news from many sources, each of which will no doubt put their political spin on things.

I don’t know who is right or who is wrong, but I expect it is probably somewhere in the middle ground between the vocal minority at each extreme.

Apologies if unclear: I’m not interested in your opinion. I’m asking you to show me where and how the science is spilt. And I don’t mean a few hard right puff pieces sponsored by big oil or Trumpers.

[MOOSECORTINA]

NONE

[DMZ]

SidewaysSi said:

Exactly. It's all about the money - green stuff is very very secondary. No one really cares if it wasn't for being cheaper.

Great isn’t it? Green stuff is cheaper and better for the environment/us.

[biggles330d]

paradigital said:

Doesn’t take me any “time” to refuel my Model 3. Get home, plug it in, have dinner, play with the kids, go to sleep, wake up and it’s full*, EVERY SINGLE DAY.

Taking time out of my day specifically to refuel the car sounds wasteful and pointless to me.

Makes me laugh when people complain about recharging times and speed. I can count on one hand the number of times in the last 4.5 months that I’ve charged more than 40% SoC, and only twice “on the road” whereby needing to be on our way again quickly was of importance.

• OK so not 100% full, usually 85% as that’s better for battery longevity.

Edited by paradigital on Sunday 31st July 22:00

Edited by paradigital on Sunday 31st July 22:02

I'd totally agree with this. You almost never have to recharge from fully empty if you change your mindset to just plug it in when parked. And it quickly becomes like your mobile phone - second nature to do so. These days I find myself being irritated as a) how quickly i can deplete the tank on my ICE cars (300-400 miles, often a bit less if its been lots of urban driving), and b) having to find a fuel station and fill up if i'm not passing any and then drop over £100 each time to do it. It suddenly feels very painful when you've become used to not doing it. We are all creatures of habit though, so if constantly pouring £££ into a tank is all you've ever done, I can understand why you wouldn't get how liberating it is not to.

i3s owner. Brilliant brilliant little car for 90% of the journeys i do. Especially as said above, every time I get in it it's fully charged. I just don't think about range or charging these days. It's a total non-issue. But i can appreciate that having a driveway at home makes a huge difference to the experience.

[evojam]

Clivey said:

Even with the ridiculous fuel prices we have now, a private owner would have to be doing a huge annual mileage (somehow without being stymied by the lack of working fast chargers in the right locations) for some of these new EV prices to make financial sense compared to just buying a used diesel commuting box...and even if something like that Hyundai or Volvo did "make sense", the job you'd be driving to would have to pay an absolute fortune to compensate from the utter monotony of driving some of these dreary appliances.

I went diesel because they told me to as it was the bright 'green future' and despite having since found out I was lied to I'm quite happy with my 600 mile range on a tank for now so you'll excuse me for feeling a little wary of them now telling me to go out and buy one of these new fangled EV's stuffed full of Evereadys..

[mike150]

I have a 2018 Nissan Leaf a year now and while I admit it's not the best EV car it's got everything you'd want in a car, the range is 150 miles and I've grown to really like it.

I'm a car guy btw, I own a Lotus Elise and a 997 C2S

I can't understand why it's never mentioned in EV articles as it's one of the most popular EV cars due to its relatively low price of 20 to 30 thousand pounds.

An E Golf, Honda E and Mini E are better?!?!? I don't think so and the buying public don't as they are rare EV cars, the leaf isn't.

I almost bought a Tesla ME performance 2 months ago as I would like more power, 4wd and more range but I just couldn't justify the 50 grand price. Other than the Tesla having those things I don't think they're a great car and they're not a great looking car.

Just don't get why the Leaf is disliked so much????

I'd buy a Tycan if I could but they're out of financial reach.