RE: The best used electric cars to buy right now
Discussion
This thread just shows why the ban is right, left to their own devices most will find some convenient stat to avoid changing their lifestyle.
To be fair it would be good to see some more sporty stuff in this article. I guess in a few years time you’ll be looking at secondhand Lotus and Porsche Cayman EVs plus and a general wider variety of performance stuff from BMW, Merc and Audi who are going all electric.
To those thinking the ban will get pushed back.. dream on - you won’t be able to buy anything with an engine at a sensible price bracket within five years and the DFT is actually speeding it up with mandates for 2024 and 2028
https://www.ft.com/content/34e3d320-0672-4f8f-b1b9...
To be fair it would be good to see some more sporty stuff in this article. I guess in a few years time you’ll be looking at secondhand Lotus and Porsche Cayman EVs plus and a general wider variety of performance stuff from BMW, Merc and Audi who are going all electric.
To those thinking the ban will get pushed back.. dream on - you won’t be able to buy anything with an engine at a sensible price bracket within five years and the DFT is actually speeding it up with mandates for 2024 and 2028
https://www.ft.com/content/34e3d320-0672-4f8f-b1b9...
Always liked the look of the i3
The first of our 8 year old cars go pop, it’ll be replaced by an EV.
Will be great to charge at home / rare visit to workplace, will rarely have to use public charger.
It’s rumoured that my company will offer EV soon, tax free. Looking forward to seeing the detail of that!
The first of our 8 year old cars go pop, it’ll be replaced by an EV.
Will be great to charge at home / rare visit to workplace, will rarely have to use public charger.
It’s rumoured that my company will offer EV soon, tax free. Looking forward to seeing the detail of that!
Even with the ridiculous fuel prices we have now, a private owner would have to be doing a huge annual mileage (somehow without being stymied by the lack of working fast chargers in the right locations) for some of these new EV prices to make financial sense compared to just buying a used diesel commuting box...and even if something like that Hyundai or Volvo did "make sense", the job you'd be driving to would have to pay an absolute fortune to compensate from the utter monotony of driving some of these dreary appliances.
DriveSnowdonia said:
Thanks, that is all useful stuff. I agree that EV's or possibly Hydrogen is probably the future eventually, but there are some significant hurdles to jump through before we get to that point most notably surrounding the reliability of things like wind power and the storage of energy. And battery technology has seemingly reached a bit of a plateau.
Whether anyone likes it or not, fossil fuels and their transport and handling are currently cheap in comparison to developing energy from sustainable sources. As we transfer, the huge costs will need to be borne by someone, and that someone is ultimately us, the taxpayer. Will the population stand for it? I am not so sure unless the transition is handled very gradually since the costs seem to impact the hardest, those in society who are the least able to pay.
Ultimately I think that fossil fuels will be a significant part of our energy supply for several more decades until we have the reliability of more nuclear power online. I also think that our government will have to row back on their plan to ban the sale of petrol and diesel vehicles by 2030. I simply don't think it is achievable, nor a vote winner at the present time. Unless of course they can somehow get their 'nudge unit' into a higher gear to generate even more fear and hysteria around man made climate change and our impending collective doom and demise.
I am not denying that the climate is changing by the way, or that we shouldn't do more to encourage conservation, but it does seem that the science is indeed fairly split on what degree this is being accelerated by the activities of man, and just like we had with the debate around Covid lock-downs, the scientific consensus, and media flavour of the month, as fickle as it seems, does seem to follow the money.
I do not think science is split on the causes of climate change. Man made climate change caused by carbon dioxide emissions has been accepted as mainstream for decades now. What is debated is the rate at which things are changing - that has surprised scientists recently and wasn't predicted or modelled. Scientists predicted that warming would take decades, enough time for us to come up with a solution. What is becoming increasingly apparent is that it has already happened and the debate is now around how bad it will get and how do we deal with it. Yes, there will always be scientists who disagree, just like there are doctors who say cigarettes are not related to lung cancer, but the vast majority of climate scientists and bodies such as NASA, Antarctic Survey,met office, leading universities around the world all broadly agree. Whether anyone likes it or not, fossil fuels and their transport and handling are currently cheap in comparison to developing energy from sustainable sources. As we transfer, the huge costs will need to be borne by someone, and that someone is ultimately us, the taxpayer. Will the population stand for it? I am not so sure unless the transition is handled very gradually since the costs seem to impact the hardest, those in society who are the least able to pay.
Ultimately I think that fossil fuels will be a significant part of our energy supply for several more decades until we have the reliability of more nuclear power online. I also think that our government will have to row back on their plan to ban the sale of petrol and diesel vehicles by 2030. I simply don't think it is achievable, nor a vote winner at the present time. Unless of course they can somehow get their 'nudge unit' into a higher gear to generate even more fear and hysteria around man made climate change and our impending collective doom and demise.
I am not denying that the climate is changing by the way, or that we shouldn't do more to encourage conservation, but it does seem that the science is indeed fairly split on what degree this is being accelerated by the activities of man, and just like we had with the debate around Covid lock-downs, the scientific consensus, and media flavour of the month, as fickle as it seems, does seem to follow the money.
Edited by DriveSnowdonia on Sunday 31st July 11:48
D4rez said:
This thread just shows why the ban is right, left to their own devices most will find some convenient stat to avoid changing their lifestyle.
You do understand how government works don't you? They are elected to represent the people, not dictate to them. Sometimes you, as an individual, might just know better than the other flawed human that is supposedly representing you. All government is self serving and crooked. All MPs are self serving and crooked. Even the militant Greens. My lifestyle isn't here to be changed. I will embrace all new technologies and BEVs or EVs or Hydrogen or synthetic fuels. But right now, petrol suits me fine.
D4rez said:
This thread just shows why the ban is right, left to their own devices most will find some convenient stat to avoid changing their lifestyle.
To be fair it would be good to see some more sporty stuff in this article. I guess in a few years time you’ll be looking at secondhand Lotus and Porsche Cayman EVs plus and a general wider variety of performance stuff from BMW, Merc and Audi who are going all electric.
To those thinking the ban will get pushed back.. dream on - you won’t be able to buy anything with an engine at a sensible price bracket within five years and the DFT is actually speeding it up with mandates for 2024 and 2028
https://www.ft.com/content/34e3d320-0672-4f8f-b1b9...
Ahh… the irony of the ‘democracy’ - you use a free speech forum to offer your opinion on something - which is great and valid, happy that the democracy is working for you & your rights and feelings, that’s nice.To be fair it would be good to see some more sporty stuff in this article. I guess in a few years time you’ll be looking at secondhand Lotus and Porsche Cayman EVs plus and a general wider variety of performance stuff from BMW, Merc and Audi who are going all electric.
To those thinking the ban will get pushed back.. dream on - you won’t be able to buy anything with an engine at a sensible price bracket within five years and the DFT is actually speeding it up with mandates for 2024 and 2028
https://www.ft.com/content/34e3d320-0672-4f8f-b1b9...
In the next breath you talk about ‘banning’ things…
I suspect a few ‘bans’ could also quickly alter your lifestyle: Having a daily shower? Turning on a light bulb? Using the totally ‘carbon friendly’ internet? Reducing your food intake by half? Banning holidays? Banning you from having a house that has more than 1 room? aha… but yes - those types of ban wouldn’t be fair, now would they..? And you’d be the 1st one bleating about your rights…
Cars are a ‘point issue’ and those constantly droning on about a point issue - to use the words of the other abusive poster (Max Headroom - or whatever the bot is called) sound like morons.
In the words of Ricky Gervais: ‘Should - a - left it…’…
Get some nuance into the discussion - I think I’m gonna go out onto the drive and start my 5 ICE’s, all at once, before I am ‘banned’… an equally biased and childish act - but hey - people tend to mirror behaviour that they are faced with. The mirror also inverts things…
Enjoy your zero carbon Sunday - before that’s banned too…! :-))
ajap1979 said:
Cobnapint said:
ajap1979 said:
Cobnapint said:
And added to all that, it's not cheap anymore to charge an EV up, even at home.
Haha, I think plenty might disagree with that! I’m not on a particularly cheap tariff, but it only costs me £11 to fully charge my Polestar, and that will see me get 200+ miles. At the moment, £55 in my up! GTI gets me 250 miles. Anyway, now we know, at 26p/kWh and a charging time of say 10hrs on a 7.2kW home charger, that's about £18 isn't it?
Willing to be corrected.
DriveSnowdonia said:
GT9 said:
I am not denying that the climate is changing by the way, or that we shouldn't do more to encourage conservation, but it does seem that the science is indeed fairly split on what degree this is being accelerated by the activities of man, and just like we had with the debate around Covid lock-downs, the scientific consensus, and media flavour of the month, as fickle as it seems, does seem to follow the money.
Any chance you could tell us where the ‘science is split’? Genuine question. Edited by DriveSnowdonia on Sunday 31st July 11:48
Billy_Whizzzz said:
DriveSnowdonia said:
I am not denying that the climate is changing by the way, or that we shouldn't do more to encourage conservation, but it does seem that the science is indeed fairly split on what degree this is being accelerated by the activities of man, and just like we had with the debate around Covid lock-downs, the scientific consensus, and media flavour of the month, as fickle as it seems, does seem to follow the money.
Any chance you could tell us where the ‘science is split’? Genuine question. 
Clivey said:
Even with the ridiculous fuel prices we have now, a private owner would have to be doing a huge annual mileage (somehow without being stymied by the lack of working fast chargers in the right locations) for some of these new EV prices to make financial sense compared to just buying a used diesel commuting box...and even if something like that Hyundai or Volvo did "make sense", the job you'd be driving to would have to pay an absolute fortune to compensate from the utter monotony of driving some of these dreary appliances.
You can always buy a cheaper car, but that isn't what people do, they have a budget and that's more or less what they end up spending. It's not a given that the comparable ICE car is cheaper. If you have £30k to spend you can buy an ID.3, or you can spend the same on a Golf that offers similar performance, equipment and practicality. Same for the Mini; petrol Cooper S or L2 Mini E. My Polestar cost a little under £50k, about the same as a BMW 330e.jason61c said:
What a half arsed article.
Hyundai Nero, polestar 2, ev6 all missing and they choose a bloody e golf!?
Err I assume you mean Kia Niro?Hyundai Nero, polestar 2, ev6 all missing and they choose a bloody e golf!?
I’d add the original Soul instead of the Renault. You’d still get one with some warranty left. Heat pump heating, range not as good as the latest stuff but it was quite good fun to drive, much more planted than the Leaf we had.
And yeah the EV6 looks way better than the Ioniq 5.
Cobnapint said:
ajap1979 said:
Cobnapint said:
ajap1979 said:
Cobnapint said:
And added to all that, it's not cheap anymore to charge an EV up, even at home.
Haha, I think plenty might disagree with that! I’m not on a particularly cheap tariff, but it only costs me £11 to fully charge my Polestar, and that will see me get 200+ miles. At the moment, £55 in my up! GTI gets me 250 miles. Anyway, now we know, at 26p/kWh and a charging time of say 10hrs on a 7.2kW home charger, that's about £18 isn't it?
Willing to be corrected.
61kWh battery
0.18625p / kWh
Long term average is 30.1kWh/100miles
DriveSnowdonia said:
Cobnapint said:
Fully charge doesn't necessarily indicate the starting point of the charging process.
Anyway, now we know, at 26p/kWh and a charging time of say 10hrs on a 7.2kW home charger, that's about £18 isn't it?
Willing to be corrected.
I'm always amazed at the feats of mental gymnastics that people who 'just want stuff' will go to, to green-light the spending of a very large sum of money to justify a small cost saving.Anyway, now we know, at 26p/kWh and a charging time of say 10hrs on a 7.2kW home charger, that's about £18 isn't it?
Willing to be corrected.
And when i say everything i mean everything ie
1) Depreciation
2) servicing
3) tyres
4) fuel (electricity)
5) Insurance
6) road tax
7) repairs, rectifications & maintainance / cleaning etc
Yes, i had to find £16k to buy the car, but i had that money in the bank and interest rates were low, and when i sold it, i got £15,800 back again. And during that time i drove a safe, fast, quiet, reliable, comfortable and above all, FUN, car for 5 years.
You could possibly spend less if you drove an absolute shed but that I3 was insanely low cost motoring for the service it provided. And it was so cheap, it allowed me to have a >600 bhp, 850 kg weekend toy in the garage for sunny days out :-)
GT9 said:
ZX10R NIN said:
I'm not against EV's but lets stop calling them green & lets just say they reduce exhaust emissions.
If the opposite of green is red, then halfway between them is poo brown. Are you also saying that EVs are crap...
No i'm not.
As demonstrated by the various responses they're not for everyone the same as (diesel/petrol/hybrid/hydrogen) isn't a one drivetrain fits all situation.
The officially quoted range figures on almost every car are laughably inaccurate. We borrowed a MINI and it didn't reach 100 miles before we felt the urgent need to recharge. 145 miles is an impossibility in that car and made it totally unsuable for us (as we don't live in London). The same is true of the e-Golf and Honda. A 58kw battery ID3 gets a realistic 230 miles in summer and 180 in winter and is pretty efficient compared to an Ipace or Polestar 2 so looking at the battery size (the mini is little more than half this size) you'll roughly get a realistic range.
er, the vast majority of this for a start:
DriveSnowdonia said:
- The length of mileage that it takes a new EV takes to break even with a new or existing ICE car in the CO2 resulting from it's manufacture and taking into account other factors including the toxicity, pollution and environmental damage done by Lithium mining and battery production/disposal.
- The cost, disruption and CO2 impact of replacing our existing ICE infrastructure with a second and all new infrastructure for EV charging and power distribution and how this is achievable in densely populated urban areas.
- The replacement/recycling factors associated with battery lifespan and the current limitations of battery production based on the availability of rare earth metals.
- Where does the power from our electric cars comes from? How our electricity is currently generated and the proportion of this that is from fossil fuels.
- Solving the electricity storage problem and the costs associated with running both a sustainable electricity generation network, and also a duplicate fossil fuel based generation network for those days when the wind does not blow. A duplicated network is a good part of why our energy bills are becoming so high.
Every point is demonstrably false. (And no, i'm not going to debunk them, as i said, go read all my long and detailed previous debunking posts if you actually would like to learn about BEVs)- The cost, disruption and CO2 impact of replacing our existing ICE infrastructure with a second and all new infrastructure for EV charging and power distribution and how this is achievable in densely populated urban areas.
- The replacement/recycling factors associated with battery lifespan and the current limitations of battery production based on the availability of rare earth metals.
- Where does the power from our electric cars comes from? How our electricity is currently generated and the proportion of this that is from fossil fuels.
- Solving the electricity storage problem and the costs associated with running both a sustainable electricity generation network, and also a duplicate fossil fuel based generation network for those days when the wind does not blow. A duplicated network is a good part of why our energy bills are becoming so high.
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