RE: Steal or no steal | Mid-engined maestros
Discussion
Bencolem said:
Mid-engined sports cars under £20,000 seems a shallow pool to swim in; apart from the Boxster, Elise/VX220 twin, MR2, MGF and the X1/9 what other options are there really to choose from?!
Imported Pontiac Fiero? Ropey Porsche 914? Honda Beat / Autozam AZ-1 Kei car type curios? Kit cars?…
TBH I think that the Fiero isn't too bad looking. Sure the 2.8 V6 is probably only useful as anchor - but it'd be interesting to see if the GNX lump would fit in (to keep it in the family) or even the Jag lump (for a reverse slice of Anglo-American cooperation!) could be a tasty little moverImported Pontiac Fiero? Ropey Porsche 914? Honda Beat / Autozam AZ-1 Kei car type curios? Kit cars?…
Or for those on a budget that want 208bhp per ton and the same acceleration and a better build quality for half the price of an elise :
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/115469288278?mkcid=16&a...
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/115469288278?mkcid=16&a...
Edited by Zircon93 on Saturday 6th August 21:34
matt21 said:
I am genuinely interested in that Elise. Wanted one for years. If I go and view it what should I look for?
Head to www.SELOC.org loads of info there, and if you look the seller up whilst there, you’ll see he is an experienced and trusted lotus seller. Had my 111S for 13 years, still makes me smile out loud every time I take it out. Draxindustries1 said:
ephemera said:
Matra Murena, unique, three seater, cheap, light, cheerful, galvanised chassis, GFK body, comes standard with 1.6 or 2.2 engine, or conversions to Peugeot MI16 or Alfa V6.
Another one not seen anymore is the Bagheera.
later I owned such Talbot Matra Murena 2.2 (not the S version) that was better, but was used to more power from other cars, so it felt slow, some change those cars, a special tank in the front and a bigger/faster engine in the middle, I guess you could make something special on a cheap base car, lots for sale some at low prices.
I sadly have no pictures of that black bagheera, but I do still have those of the Talbot Matra Murena
J4CKO said:
Or, get an MGF for £1500 ?
Are they that bad in comparison ?
This is it, you can buy a decent F/TF for 10% of the price of the featured cars but they offer a whole lot more than 10% of the driving fun of the other three - 71.4% would be my estimate.Are they that bad in comparison ?
Though perhaps the MG is bettered suited to a thread titled ‘mid-engined Metros’
otolith said:
You’re always into diminishing returns with cars, but personally I wouldn’t swap my Elise for 25k and a ropey old MGF.
The MGF/TF is far better to drive than many of its detractors (I'm guessing most of whom either haven't driven one, or have driven only a knackered one) seem to believe, but it's also some way off an Elise/VX220 or even a mk3 MR2. The F's biggest problem was always its driving position, well that and its build quality, which during some periods of its production made the Elise look like a Rolls Royce. The underlying chassis, like most MG Rover products, was very good by the standards of the market it was competing in (which of course wasn't the same one as the Elise and VX220). If I was looking for a really cheap sports car, I think the MGTF 160 would be pretty near the top of my list, along with the mk3 MR2 and of course the MX5. However, if I had £20k to spend, none of those three would be on the list.
Edited by kambites on Sunday 7th August 07:37
kambites said:
otolith said:
You’re always into diminishing returns with cars, but personally I wouldn’t swap my Elise for 25k and a ropey old MGF.
The MGF/TF is far better to drive than many of its detractors (I'm guessing most of whom either haven't driven one, or have driven only a knackered one) seem to believe, but it's also some way off an Elise/VX220 or even a mk3 MR2. The F's biggest problem was always its driving position, well that and its build quality, which during some periods of its production made the Elise look like a Rolls Royce. The underlying chassis, like most MG Rover products, was very good by the standards of the market it was competing in (which of course wasn't the same one as the Elise and VX220). If I was looking for a really cheap sports car, I think the MGTF 160 would be pretty near the top of my list, along with the mk3 MR2 and of course the MX5. However, if I had £20k to spend, none of those three would be on the list.
Saw a MGTF160 at Castle Combe a couple of years back, keeping a couple of Else S1 & S2s honest, all driven spiritedly. I don't believe the Elise were the base powered type. The Elises were slowly drawing away each lap, but considering the weight disadvantage, I was impressed by the MGTF. It was great to see them all being driven as intended though.
MGTF have quite stiff suspension, Trophys got lowered & even stiffer suspension, along with larger brakes I think. Like all cars of the era, you have to look out for rust. They all have a good boot size. Belt changes etc a bit expensive every 5 years, but just the same as Elise 160s etc.
At 6ft 3", the Elise & VX are sadly a no go from the start, they must be brilliant to drive.
Having both a MGTF & Mk3 MR2, it's interesting to see the similarities/differences.
GTM Libra car another option for this thread to.
C70R said:
Pflanzgarten said:
How are S1 Elise’s still so cheap?
Caught the Intercooler podcast this week, and inclined to agree with them on the Elise. Early, original cars will never be worth less than they are now, and can be used without too much worry over impacting values. Maybe not a sure-fire way to early retirement, but definitely a car that could be cost-neutral over the course of a few years. Craikeybaby said:
HorneyMX5 said:
No MGF or MR2?
MR2 is as obvious as the Boxster, and it was featured in this column last week. Even then there were complaints that they are featured too often. And MGFs are just rubbish. Nickp82 said:
J4CKO said:
Or, get an MGF for £1500 ?
Are they that bad in comparison ?
This is it, you can buy a decent F/TF for 10% of the price of the featured cars but they offer a whole lot more than 10% of the driving fun of the other three - 71.4% would be my estimate.Are they that bad in comparison ?
Though perhaps the MG is bettered suited to a thread titled ‘mid-engined Metros’
Although it bears no resembles to the horrific MG Turbo Metro I once had, fortunately
ColdoRS said:
C70R said:
Pflanzgarten said:
How are S1 Elise’s still so cheap?
Caught the Intercooler podcast this week, and inclined to agree with them on the Elise. Early, original cars will never be worth less than they are now, and can be used without too much worry over impacting values. Maybe not a sure-fire way to early retirement, but definitely a car that could be cost-neutral over the course of a few years. They are still great value for one of the most enjoyable cars to use on the road, while remaining relatively cheap to run and more practical / usable than you Imagine.
ColdoRS said:
C70R said:
Pflanzgarten said:
How are S1 Elise’s still so cheap?
Caught the Intercooler podcast this week, and inclined to agree with them on the Elise. Early, original cars will never be worth less than they are now, and can be used without too much worry over impacting values. Maybe not a sure-fire way to early retirement, but definitely a car that could be cost-neutral over the course of a few years. ColdoRS said:
I agree - I don’t follow the market for S1 Elise’s but I imagined them to be much more expensive, surely that is the bottom? Must be safe money there, a bit of fun, too.
The bottom was about £8-10k about ten years ago, for a usable but slightly ropey car from a private seller - they're creeping up but not particularly quickly. GTRene said:
Draxindustries1 said:
ephemera said:
Matra Murena, unique, three seater, cheap, light, cheerful, galvanised chassis, GFK body, comes standard with 1.6 or 2.2 engine, or conversions to Peugeot MI16 or Alfa V6.
Another one not seen anymore is the Bagheera.
later I owned such Talbot Matra Murena 2.2 (not the S version) that was better, but was used to more power from other cars, so it felt slow, some change those cars, a special tank in the front and a bigger/faster engine in the middle, I guess you could make something special on a cheap base car, lots for sale some at low prices.
I sadly have no pictures of that black bagheera, but I do still have those of the Talbot Matra Murena
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