Timing belt failure just out of warranty
Discussion
littleruss said:
Timing belt tensioner failed. Belt intact but loose. They are running all the tests on the engine tomorrow to find out whether there is damage there.
Anyone able to guide me on whether this is unreasonable on a 50k miles, 3 year old car, or any known issues with this (1.6 diesel).
Really, really annoyed that if anyone from the workshop had been willing to take a brief look when I took it in, this wouldn't have happened.
Crap luck, but nobody can really guide you. Legally they probably don't have to do anything unless you are prepared to go to court.Anyone able to guide me on whether this is unreasonable on a 50k miles, 3 year old car, or any known issues with this (1.6 diesel).
Really, really annoyed that if anyone from the workshop had been willing to take a brief look when I took it in, this wouldn't have happened.
Kick up a big stink, push for them to cover 100% of the cost and likely they'll end up making a contribution, hopefully closer to 100% than 0.
Fingers crossed the damage is minimal and Audi come to the party.
Keep us updated OP and good luck.
F20CN16 said:
Amber warning light and noise, but kept driving. Sorry OP this one is on you, regardless of what happened at the dealer when you went in. I do on the other hand agree that Audi should cover most if not all of the repair cost due to premature failure. They really know how to mess up a tensioner design over there at VAG.
The driver isn’t a mechanic, nor should he be expected to be, he went to the dealer having noted the issue and followed their advice. But yes, Audi should show goodwill here if it’s got full service history and was approved used.
Carlososos said:
105.4 said:
W201_190e said:
105.4 said:
littleruss said:
Official belt change is 120k / 5 years according to the dealer today, so nowhere even close.
120’000 miles on the same cam belt !
For the sake of a couple of hundred quid for a belt kit, I think I’d be changing it every 25’000 miles.
Carlososos said:
105.4 said:
W201_190e said:
105.4 said:
littleruss said:
Official belt change is 120k / 5 years according to the dealer today, so nowhere even close.
120’000 miles on the same cam belt !
For the sake of a couple of hundred quid for a belt kit, I think I’d be changing it every 25’000 miles.
romeodelta said:
Crap luck, but nobody can really guide you. Legally they probably don't have to do anything unless you are prepared to go to court.
Kick up a big stink, push for them to cover 100% of the cost and likely they'll end up making a contribution, hopefully closer to 100% than 0.
This is the wrong answer.Kick up a big stink, push for them to cover 100% of the cost and likely they'll end up making a contribution, hopefully closer to 100% than 0.
If bought and maintained in the Audi network they will contribute, possibly at 100%, depending on the historical frequency of occurrences. If its a known issue they will foot the bulk of the bill or all of it.
Do not "Kick up a stink". They have no obligation to help you. Your car is out of warranty and has been driven with a warning light showing. You have a responsibility to take reasonable care of the vehicle, if you act like a
then you will be treated like one.As for the dealer being unable to see you unannounced, try walking in to a lawyer's office and asking for an immediate appointment. For that matter, if the receptionist at the hospital told you not to worry about the chest pains..... You could have dropped the car and caught a bus or asked for a loan car.
As with most stressful situations, remaining calm and reasonable will do you more good.
papa3 said:
romeodelta said:
Crap luck, but nobody can really guide you. Legally they probably don't have to do anything unless you are prepared to go to court.
Kick up a big stink, push for them to cover 100% of the cost and likely they'll end up making a contribution, hopefully closer to 100% than 0.
This is the wrong answer.Kick up a big stink, push for them to cover 100% of the cost and likely they'll end up making a contribution, hopefully closer to 100% than 0.
If bought and maintained in the Audi network they will contribute, possibly at 100%, depending on the historical frequency of occurrences. If its a known issue they will foot the bulk of the bill or all of it.
Do not "Kick up a stink". They have no obligation to help you. Your car is out of warranty and has been driven with a warning light showing. You have a responsibility to take reasonable care of the vehicle, if you act like a
then you will be treated like one.As for the dealer being unable to see you unannounced, try walking in to a lawyer's office and asking for an immediate appointment. For that matter, if the receptionist at the hospital told you not to worry about the chest pains..... You could have dropped the car and caught a bus or asked for a loan car.
As with most stressful situations, remaining calm and reasonable will do you more good.
What I meant is, if they fob him off, which they might and legally probably can (up for debate), he might have to push them for resolution.
My wording may have been interpreted as going full Karen, but I just meant push them hard.
Until the OP comes back with more info we are just guessing into a void in the internet.
What does surprise me with this sort of thing, and its something I have thought and talked about before, is that the normal situation is not to he insured for mechanical failure beyond the warranty period.
If your car is damaged, by you crashing it or someone or something else, almost certainly you are covered. Most people have windscreen cover, breakdown cover, and a stack of other cover on their car/home/life. But sudden terminal unexpected engine failure is typically almost never insured against.
Despite the fact it s as unlikely, as costly, and as out of the users control as any of the other things we do insure.
Obviously you can insure and shouldn't really need cover for wear and tear on your brakes, or even things like the repair cost after an alternator failure, but while it isnt common, there are all to many stories of premature cambelt failure, and odd other things like ingested swirl flaps and the like, which can throw up a hefty four-five figure bill, which can even write off the car, no cover at all?
What does surprise me with this sort of thing, and its something I have thought and talked about before, is that the normal situation is not to he insured for mechanical failure beyond the warranty period.
If your car is damaged, by you crashing it or someone or something else, almost certainly you are covered. Most people have windscreen cover, breakdown cover, and a stack of other cover on their car/home/life. But sudden terminal unexpected engine failure is typically almost never insured against.
Despite the fact it s as unlikely, as costly, and as out of the users control as any of the other things we do insure.
Obviously you can insure and shouldn't really need cover for wear and tear on your brakes, or even things like the repair cost after an alternator failure, but while it isnt common, there are all to many stories of premature cambelt failure, and odd other things like ingested swirl flaps and the like, which can throw up a hefty four-five figure bill, which can even write off the car, no cover at all?
dhutch said:
Until the OP comes back with more info we are just guessing into a void in the internet.
What does surprise me with this sort of thing, and its something I have thought and talked about before, is that the normal situation is not to he insured for mechanical failure beyond the warranty period.
If your car is damaged, by you crashing it or someone or something else, almost certainly you are covered. Most people have windscreen cover, breakdown cover, and a stack of other cover on their car/home/life. But sudden terminal unexpected engine failure is typically almost never insured against.
Despite the fact it s as unlikely, as costly, and as out of the users control as any of the other things we do insure.
Obviously you can insure and shouldn't really need cover for wear and tear on your brakes, or even things like the repair cost after an alternator failure, but while it isnt common, there are all to many stories of premature cambelt failure, and odd other things like ingested swirl flaps and the like, which can throw up a hefty four-five figure bill, which can even write off the car, no cover at all?
A warranty is your insurance. After the manufacturers warranty runs out you can buy another. It's not legally required which is why it's not on your car insurance.What does surprise me with this sort of thing, and its something I have thought and talked about before, is that the normal situation is not to he insured for mechanical failure beyond the warranty period.
If your car is damaged, by you crashing it or someone or something else, almost certainly you are covered. Most people have windscreen cover, breakdown cover, and a stack of other cover on their car/home/life. But sudden terminal unexpected engine failure is typically almost never insured against.
Despite the fact it s as unlikely, as costly, and as out of the users control as any of the other things we do insure.
Obviously you can insure and shouldn't really need cover for wear and tear on your brakes, or even things like the repair cost after an alternator failure, but while it isnt common, there are all to many stories of premature cambelt failure, and odd other things like ingested swirl flaps and the like, which can throw up a hefty four-five figure bill, which can even write off the car, no cover at all?
Same as breakdown insurance. It's all just insurance for specific circumstances.
Edited by 98elise on Friday 12th August 11:13
dhutch said:
But sudden terminal unexpected engine failure is typically almost never insured against.
I don't know what the stats are, and my view is probably skewed by being on car forums, but a lot of people seem to have either a manufacturer or 3rd party extended warranty. I'd be nervous of running a turbo diesel (like the OPs car) without one - my Merc was covered for 10yrs and wife's Tiguan, which is 7yrs old, is covered for another year by VWs All In plan. Indeed the OP could have bought the All In plan for his Audi and the warranty becomes more or less free.
Of course there's then an argument that it's not fair to fix things under goodwill when others have paid out for a warranty!
Roger Irrelevant said:
Bobton125 said:
Limpet said:
A claim against a private seller for a mechanical failure on a 150,000 mile car would surely be laughed out of court. If true, I actually feel sorry for the seller.
This is why the likes of webuyanycar are doing so well.
Well it absolutely wasn’t laughed out of court.This is why the likes of webuyanycar are doing so well.
I won on the grounds of item not as described - per ad it said it was in good running order. When I bought it, it wasn’t.
te and then be completely off the hook once the deal is done. Stuff that's completely qualitative like 'best colour' or 'baddest Beemer in Bolton' will be dismissed as mere sales puff, but if you say that the car you are selling is in 'good running order' and it falls to bits the very next day, then it's not surprising that a judge concludes that it wasn't actually in 'good running order', that the seller is guilty of misrepresentation, and that the buyer is entitled to his money back.Edit: to actually be of some use to the OP: you bought the car from the dealer, so talk to the dealer. Make it clear that so far as you are concerned you shouldn't have to pay anything at all given the age and mileage of the car and that it's been serviced properly.
Edited by Roger Irrelevant on Wednesday 10th August 16:39
Bobton125 said:
Well it absolutely wasn’t laughed out of court.
I won on the grounds of item not as described - per ad it said it was in good running order. When I bought it, it wasn’t.
Caveat emptor is just myth!
Obviously this came to a surprise with me also, from reading all the advice online about private sellers I thought my chances were very slim. You don’t have as many right as from a dealer but you do still have some rights.
I feel sorry for the seller too in a way, he didn’t mean to sell a dud car but one of us was going to be out of pocket by 3k here so i would rather that be him!
Remind me never to sell ou a car.I won on the grounds of item not as described - per ad it said it was in good running order. When I bought it, it wasn’t.
Caveat emptor is just myth!
Obviously this came to a surprise with me also, from reading all the advice online about private sellers I thought my chances were very slim. You don’t have as many right as from a dealer but you do still have some rights.
I feel sorry for the seller too in a way, he didn’t mean to sell a dud car but one of us was going to be out of pocket by 3k here so i would rather that be him!
You don't feel sorry for him at all, otherwise you'd have taken it in on the chin. Buying a 150k car should never have any warranty irrespective but definitely not from a private individual.
105.4 said:
That’s just insane.
For the sake of a couple of hundred quid for a belt kit, I think I’d be changing it every 25’000 miles.
Fine if you're handy with the spannersFor the sake of a couple of hundred quid for a belt kit, I think I’d be changing it every 25’000 miles.
Most cars it's a 3-6 hour job ?
Plus needing to change all the coolant.
Certainly not needed every 25k. There are millions of cars out there running around with timing belts on 60-70-80k and 5-6-7 years without issue.
CarCrazyDad said:
Bobton125 said:
Well it absolutely wasn’t laughed out of court.
I won on the grounds of item not as described - per ad it said it was in good running order. When I bought it, it wasn’t.
Caveat emptor is just myth!
Obviously this came to a surprise with me also, from reading all the advice online about private sellers I thought my chances were very slim. You don’t have as many right as from a dealer but you do still have some rights.
I feel sorry for the seller too in a way, he didn’t mean to sell a dud car but one of us was going to be out of pocket by 3k here so i would rather that be him!
Remind me never to sell ou a car.I won on the grounds of item not as described - per ad it said it was in good running order. When I bought it, it wasn’t.
Caveat emptor is just myth!
Obviously this came to a surprise with me also, from reading all the advice online about private sellers I thought my chances were very slim. You don’t have as many right as from a dealer but you do still have some rights.
I feel sorry for the seller too in a way, he didn’t mean to sell a dud car but one of us was going to be out of pocket by 3k here so i would rather that be him!
You don't feel sorry for him at all, otherwise you'd have taken it in on the chin. Buying a 150k car should never have any warranty irrespective but definitely not from a private individual.
Good result for the buyer but....jeez.
RECr said:
I remember there was another case on MSE that was found in the buyer's favour, inspite of the seller (IMO) not misrepresenting. The wording the judge used (as reported by the poster) suggested that the judge was treating the sale as a b2c rather than private sale.
There's been a few quite random small claims outcomes - another on MSE where the seller had to pay for the cost of repair of an imaginary fault, despite the buyer having since sold the car and there being no evidence the repair had been carried out!Another one I recalll (which I think was in the national press) was over the sale of a £400 van.
I suppose we don't hear of the cases where the buyer is sent away with a flea in their ear.
Sheepshanks said:
dhutch said:
But sudden terminal unexpected engine failure is typically almost never insured against.
I don't know what the stats are, and my view is probably skewed by being on car forums, but a lot of people seem to have either a manufacturer or 3rd party extended warranty. I'd be nervous of running a turbo diesel (like the OPs car) without one - my Merc was covered for 10yrs and wife's Tiguan, which is 7yrs old, is covered for another year by VWs All In plan. Indeed the OP could have bought the All In plan for his Audi and the warranty becomes more or less free.
Of course there's then an argument that it's not fair to fix things under goodwill when others have paid out for a warranty!
To an extent once you've got low enough in value it might fall into the category of "dont insure something you can afford to loose" but there are plenty of out of warranty cars worth £10-20k. And also plenty running a £5k car who couldn't afford to loose it at zero notice, have breakdown and are fully comp (neither legally required), might well have accidentally insurance of the house, but would are very exposured to cambelt failure.
tim0409 said:
Bobton125 said:
Limpet said:
A claim against a private seller for a mechanical failure on a 150,000 mile car would surely be laughed out of court. If true, I actually feel sorry for the seller.
This is why the likes of webuyanycar are doing so well.
Well it absolutely wasn’t laughed out of court.This is why the likes of webuyanycar are doing so well.
I won on the grounds of item not as described - per ad it said it was in good running order. When I bought it, it wasn’t.
Caveat emptor is just myth!
Obviously this came to a surprise with me also, from reading all the advice online about private sellers I thought my chances were very slim. You don’t have as many right as from a dealer but you do still have some rights.
I feel sorry for the seller too in a way, he didn’t mean to sell a dud car but one of us was going to be out of pocket by 3k here so i would rather that be him!
I do have an unused law degree from twenty years ago and distinctly remember this being covered, and nothing I have read since contradicts it. The Consumer Rights Act 2015 does not apply to private vehicle sales.
Edited by tim0409 on Wednesday 10th August 19:47
Seriously, I am never going to sell a car privately again if a buyer can later screw me in court for something I knew nothing about.
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff