RE: Porsche Taycan Turbo S sets new 'ring EV record

[biggbn]

Nomme de Plum said:

biggbn said:

Why does having a relatively crude, relatively noisy ICE give a car 'soul'? Genuine question. I think it does by the way, but not every ICE car has soul so the lines blur once again.

Ascribing a spiritual characteristic to any car is just a bit weird in my opinion. As it happens i do not believe in the human soul either.

Intersting. I have discussed this elsewhere, I'm sure on another EV thread. I'll go back and have a look as I can't be bothered reprinting my thoughts.

[biggbn]

biggbn said:

Nomme de Plum said:

biggbn said:

Why does having a relatively crude, relatively noisy ICE give a car 'soul'? Genuine question. I think it does by the way, but not every ICE car has soul so the lines blur once again.

Ascribing a spiritual characteristic to any car is just a bit weird in my opinion. As it happens i do not believe in the human soul either.

Intersting. I have discussed this elsewhere, I'm sure on another EV thread. I'll go back and have a look as I can't be bothered reprinting my thoughts.

Edited 'highlights' of my musings, think you were on that thread too.

Extract 1
Ah, now we are talking my language. What actually has soul? Isn't it just a human construct to create intangible bonds, an anomalous, esoteric fallacy that anchors us to ourselves and 'things' around us. Soul is merely a form of existential awareness we attribute to ourselves and others to make us feel more interesting and inject colour into our lives by attributing it to our possessions. Discuss.

Intersting book that explores this concept... https://www.wob.com/en-gb/books/matthew-b-crawford

Extract 2
Again, this comes down to how, or even if, we define 'soul'. I've long felt that we ascribe soul to ICE cars more than almost anything else as they have a 'living' feel about them, they breathe, the consume fuel and produce waste, they have a 'brain' that controls them and they come in so many shapes and sizes, yet once they cease to function as machines, does their soul leave them, just as once we cease to function as machines, our 'soul' does?

Extract 3
Another poster suggested the incredible performance an EV can have gives it soul, but I'd disagree wholly with that. It might provide excitement but soul? If I was to ascribe soul to inanimate objects, I'd suggest my old 72 beetle, 2cv or series 3 land-rover had soul, and almost negligible performance. My series 3 Jaguar xj6s could be perceived as having soul in a way my later x308 could not. But. Did any of them really have soul, or were they just characterful? And where is the difference? This is a fascinating subject and I do feel that things we have time, and love invested in are the things we indulge with the word 'soul'. If we have had our hands dirty under the bonnet and subsequently enjoyed journeys, we have more of a connection, a tangible one...yet we fix things for two reasons, love or necessity/pragmatism. Through one we can indulge our sense of belonging, through the other we foster resentment!!

And finally, thankfully for some, extract 4.
That is my exact point. And I make the same point about living beings. Is soul simply a cultural/social human construct? I think it is, but rather anomalously don't see that it's very artifice diminishes it's existence. It is a catch all phrase that can be used to describe most anything and will therefore remain a very subjective quality.

On a slightly different tack, Merleau-Ponty used a lady wearing a fearher hat to describe one aspect of his version of phenomenology, and one can definitely substitute a vehicle for the hat. We 'become' part of the car and the more we drive the less we think about its existence as a separate entity. Perhaps this notion of being 'as one' also engenders the application of 'soul'. If we have it, then it becomes transferable to the things we become part of?

[biggbn]

E90_M3Ross said:

biggbn said:

Twinair said:

D4rez said:

cookie1600 said:

Twinair said:

So 2 of the hottest EV’s, slower than my less powerful (and way cheaper) M4 Comp Xdrive… brum brum… x

And I'm guessing you could drive away from the circuit for some considerable miles on what was left in the tank afterwards, rather than having to fill it up immediately with 'juice' again?

Sure but what are you going to be allowed to buy in a few years time. It’s good to start the development of EVs that can do the track stuff. Yes this is a big sedan but it shows a direction of travel

All valid points - agree. My thought was that my ICE has between 100 and 500 less HP. Costs between £40k to £60k less. It goes ‘brum’ (which ok - not everyone wants a car that goes ‘brum’). Even Chris Harris said of the M3/4: ‘I’d rather drive one of these than any EV - point blank’, due to the soul and involvement.

We are constantly reading (being told) on these forums that: ‘EV performance is superior - in every way’. Well from my direct actual experience of EV’s (Model 3 Perf & Polestar Perf & Taycan) they are not superior.

So right now, ICE is er, better ‘bang’ for the buck versus these current, horsepower laden & expensive, EV benchmarks?

No? Yes?

Edited by Twinair on Wednesday 10th August 16:03

Why does having a relatively crude, relatively noisy ICE give a car 'soul'? Genuine question. I think it does by the way, but not every ICE car has soul so the lines blur once again.

Because sounds can evoke changes in mood via releases of differing neurotransmitters in the brain. It is no different to why humans have evolved to enjoy music, for example. Some noises humans perceive as pleasant, enthralling etc, yet other noises are irritating.

Good answer, thanks. Yet what some find sonorous, others perceive as a bleedin racket. And, some silent ICE cars can still lay claim to having soul...

[E90_M3Ross]

biggbn said:

E90_M3Ross said:

biggbn said:

Twinair said:

D4rez said:

cookie1600 said:

Twinair said:

So 2 of the hottest EV’s, slower than my less powerful (and way cheaper) M4 Comp Xdrive… brum brum… x

And I'm guessing you could drive away from the circuit for some considerable miles on what was left in the tank afterwards, rather than having to fill it up immediately with 'juice' again?

Sure but what are you going to be allowed to buy in a few years time. It’s good to start the development of EVs that can do the track stuff. Yes this is a big sedan but it shows a direction of travel

All valid points - agree. My thought was that my ICE has between 100 and 500 less HP. Costs between £40k to £60k less. It goes ‘brum’ (which ok - not everyone wants a car that goes ‘brum’). Even Chris Harris said of the M3/4: ‘I’d rather drive one of these than any EV - point blank’, due to the soul and involvement.

We are constantly reading (being told) on these forums that: ‘EV performance is superior - in every way’. Well from my direct actual experience of EV’s (Model 3 Perf & Polestar Perf & Taycan) they are not superior.

So right now, ICE is er, better ‘bang’ for the buck versus these current, horsepower laden & expensive, EV benchmarks?

No? Yes?

Edited by Twinair on Wednesday 10th August 16:03

Why does having a relatively crude, relatively noisy ICE give a car 'soul'? Genuine question. I think it does by the way, but not every ICE car has soul so the lines blur once again.

Because sounds can evoke changes in mood via releases of differing neurotransmitters in the brain. It is no different to why humans have evolved to enjoy music, for example. Some noises humans perceive as pleasant, enthralling etc, yet other noises are irritating.

Good answer, thanks. Yet what some find sonorous, others perceive as a bleedin racket. And, some silent ICE cars can still lay claim to having soul...

No different to people liking different music that said, I don't know anyone who LIKES the sound of a 4 cylinder diesel

[biggbn]

E90_M3Ross said:

biggbn said:

E90_M3Ross said:

biggbn said:

Twinair said:

D4rez said:

cookie1600 said:

Twinair said:

So 2 of the hottest EV’s, slower than my less powerful (and way cheaper) M4 Comp Xdrive… brum brum… x

And I'm guessing you could drive away from the circuit for some considerable miles on what was left in the tank afterwards, rather than having to fill it up immediately with 'juice' again?

Sure but what are you going to be allowed to buy in a few years time. It’s good to start the development of EVs that can do the track stuff. Yes this is a big sedan but it shows a direction of travel

All valid points - agree. My thought was that my ICE has between 100 and 500 less HP. Costs between £40k to £60k less. It goes ‘brum’ (which ok - not everyone wants a car that goes ‘brum’). Even Chris Harris said of the M3/4: ‘I’d rather drive one of these than any EV - point blank’, due to the soul and involvement.

We are constantly reading (being told) on these forums that: ‘EV performance is superior - in every way’. Well from my direct actual experience of EV’s (Model 3 Perf & Polestar Perf & Taycan) they are not superior.

So right now, ICE is er, better ‘bang’ for the buck versus these current, horsepower laden & expensive, EV benchmarks?

No? Yes?

Edited by Twinair on Wednesday 10th August 16:03

Why does having a relatively crude, relatively noisy ICE give a car 'soul'? Genuine question. I think it does by the way, but not every ICE car has soul so the lines blur once again.

Because sounds can evoke changes in mood via releases of differing neurotransmitters in the brain. It is no different to why humans have evolved to enjoy music, for example. Some noises humans perceive as pleasant, enthralling etc, yet other noises are irritating.

Good answer, thanks. Yet what some find sonorous, others perceive as a bleedin racket. And, some silent ICE cars can still lay claim to having soul...

No different to people liking different music that said, I don't know anyone who LIKES the sound of a 4 cylinder diesel

I like a VAG 1.9 TDi!!! Sounds like a comfort blanket. And yes, that was the point I was making. Different people like different sounds and some none at all, yet all can attribute the cultural construct of 'soul'.