Middle Lane Drivers, Do they Ever Notice?
Discussion
Portofino said:
vonhosen said:
A Winner Is You said:
I often find a scenario where I'm in L1 doing an indicated 75 or so and can see I'm catching someone dawdling in L2, but am always hesitant on how to act. Yes, I know that I could say in L1 and allow the speed differential to pass without it being an undertake. But I always feel like I'm putting myself somewhere where the other driver doesn't expect me to be, so the chances of them moving back into L1 without looking are higher. But the other option is to go straight from L1 to 3, pass them then back again, which could be seen as aggressive or careless. Even more so when you can see an HGV ahead so only have a limited window before you catch them.
Or am I just over thinking it?
An undertake is a pass/overtake on the left in any circumstances.Or am I just over thinking it?
The highway code allows for it in some very limited circumstances (but it being permitted doesn't mean it isn't still an undertake/pass on the left).
Highway Code said:
Do not overtake on the left or move to a lane on your left to overtake. In congested conditions, where adjacent lanes of traffic are moving at similar speeds, traffic in left-hand lanes may sometimes be moving faster than traffic to the right. In these conditions you may keep up with the traffic in your lane even if this means passing traffic in the lane to your right. Do not weave in and out of lanes to overtake.
Notice the 'or' highlighted.It's undertaking/overtaking on the left whether you lane change or not. It has nothing to do with lane changes.
The highway code says it's a no no whether you do it without a lane change or with one, otherwise that 'or' wouldn't be there & the comment prior to it.
There'd just be the don't move to a lane on your left to overtake.
It also outlines limited circumstances where you can pass on the left when staying in your lane, such as in 'congested' conditions.
The interpretation of those circumstances that matters will be the individual officer witnessing it & the CPS/Courts beyond that.
Just because we may try & claim we think it's congested in order to justify it to ourselves doesn't mean they will agree.
Edited by vonhosen on Tuesday 16th August 17:20
vonhosen said:
Notice the 'or' highlighted.
It's undertaking/overtaking on the left whether you lane change or not. It has nothing to do with lane changes.
The highway code says it's a no no whether you do it without a lane change or with one, otherwise that 'or' wouldn't be there & the comment prior to it.
There'd just be the don't change to a lane on your left to undertake.
It also outlines limited circumstances where you can pass on the left when staying in your lane, such as in 'congested' conditions.
The interpretation of those circumstances that matters will be the individual officer witnessing it & the CPS/Courts beyond that.
Just because we may try & claim we think it's congested in order to justify it to ourselves doesn't mean they will agree.
So genuine question, you're doing the speed limit in L1 and a vehicle is doing under it in L2. How should you proceed? It's undertaking/overtaking on the left whether you lane change or not. It has nothing to do with lane changes.
The highway code says it's a no no whether you do it without a lane change or with one, otherwise that 'or' wouldn't be there & the comment prior to it.
There'd just be the don't change to a lane on your left to undertake.
It also outlines limited circumstances where you can pass on the left when staying in your lane, such as in 'congested' conditions.
The interpretation of those circumstances that matters will be the individual officer witnessing it & the CPS/Courts beyond that.
Just because we may try & claim we think it's congested in order to justify it to ourselves doesn't mean they will agree.
A Winner Is You said:
vonhosen said:
Notice the 'or' highlighted.
It's undertaking/overtaking on the left whether you lane change or not. It has nothing to do with lane changes.
The highway code says it's a no no whether you do it without a lane change or with one, otherwise that 'or' wouldn't be there & the comment prior to it.
There'd just be the don't change to a lane on your left to undertake.
It also outlines limited circumstances where you can pass on the left when staying in your lane, such as in 'congested' conditions.
The interpretation of those circumstances that matters will be the individual officer witnessing it & the CPS/Courts beyond that.
Just because we may try & claim we think it's congested in order to justify it to ourselves doesn't mean they will agree.
So genuine question, you're doing the speed limit in L1 and a vehicle is doing under it in L2. How should you proceed? It's undertaking/overtaking on the left whether you lane change or not. It has nothing to do with lane changes.
The highway code says it's a no no whether you do it without a lane change or with one, otherwise that 'or' wouldn't be there & the comment prior to it.
There'd just be the don't change to a lane on your left to undertake.
It also outlines limited circumstances where you can pass on the left when staying in your lane, such as in 'congested' conditions.
The interpretation of those circumstances that matters will be the individual officer witnessing it & the CPS/Courts beyond that.
Just because we may try & claim we think it's congested in order to justify it to ourselves doesn't mean they will agree.
So there are more considerations than just the limited info you have given.
As I said though, nobody adheres to the HC all of the time.
People will do what makes their lives easier & what they feel they can justify to themselves, irrespective of whether that complies with the letter of the HC or not.
It's only a problem when it results in grief (collision, road rage, ticket etc).
vonhosen said:
A Winner Is You said:
vonhosen said:
Notice the 'or' highlighted.
It's undertaking/overtaking on the left whether you lane change or not. It has nothing to do with lane changes.
The highway code says it's a no no whether you do it without a lane change or with one, otherwise that 'or' wouldn't be there & the comment prior to it.
There'd just be the don't change to a lane on your left to undertake.
It also outlines limited circumstances where you can pass on the left when staying in your lane, such as in 'congested' conditions.
The interpretation of those circumstances that matters will be the individual officer witnessing it & the CPS/Courts beyond that.
Just because we may try & claim we think it's congested in order to justify it to ourselves doesn't mean they will agree.
So genuine question, you're doing the speed limit in L1 and a vehicle is doing under it in L2. How should you proceed? It's undertaking/overtaking on the left whether you lane change or not. It has nothing to do with lane changes.
The highway code says it's a no no whether you do it without a lane change or with one, otherwise that 'or' wouldn't be there & the comment prior to it.
There'd just be the don't change to a lane on your left to undertake.
It also outlines limited circumstances where you can pass on the left when staying in your lane, such as in 'congested' conditions.
The interpretation of those circumstances that matters will be the individual officer witnessing it & the CPS/Courts beyond that.
Just because we may try & claim we think it's congested in order to justify it to ourselves doesn't mean they will agree.
So there are more considerations than just the limited info you have given.
As I said though, nobody adheres to the HC all of the time.
People will do what makes their lives easier & what they feel they can justify to themselves, irrespective of whether that complies with the letter of the HC or not.
It's only a problem when it results in grief (collision, road rage, ticket etc).
A Winner Is You said:
I often find a scenario where I'm in L1 doing an indicated 75 or so and can see I'm catching someone dawdling in L2, but am always hesitant on how to act. Yes, I know that I could say in L1 and allow the speed differential to pass without it being an undertake. But I always feel like I'm putting myself somewhere where the other driver doesn't expect me to be, so the chances of them moving back into L1 without looking are higher. But the other option is to go straight from L1 to 3, pass them then back again, which could be seen as aggressive or careless. Even more so when you can see an HGV ahead so only have a limited window before you catch them.
Or am I just over thinking it?
A couple of short taps on the horn to alert them to your presence. Or am I just over thinking it?
A Winner Is You said:
vonhosen said:
A Winner Is You said:
vonhosen said:
Notice the 'or' highlighted.
It's undertaking/overtaking on the left whether you lane change or not. It has nothing to do with lane changes.
The highway code says it's a no no whether you do it without a lane change or with one, otherwise that 'or' wouldn't be there & the comment prior to it.
There'd just be the don't change to a lane on your left to undertake.
It also outlines limited circumstances where you can pass on the left when staying in your lane, such as in 'congested' conditions.
The interpretation of those circumstances that matters will be the individual officer witnessing it & the CPS/Courts beyond that.
Just because we may try & claim we think it's congested in order to justify it to ourselves doesn't mean they will agree.
So genuine question, you're doing the speed limit in L1 and a vehicle is doing under it in L2. How should you proceed? It's undertaking/overtaking on the left whether you lane change or not. It has nothing to do with lane changes.
The highway code says it's a no no whether you do it without a lane change or with one, otherwise that 'or' wouldn't be there & the comment prior to it.
There'd just be the don't change to a lane on your left to undertake.
It also outlines limited circumstances where you can pass on the left when staying in your lane, such as in 'congested' conditions.
The interpretation of those circumstances that matters will be the individual officer witnessing it & the CPS/Courts beyond that.
Just because we may try & claim we think it's congested in order to justify it to ourselves doesn't mean they will agree.
So there are more considerations than just the limited info you have given.
As I said though, nobody adheres to the HC all of the time.
People will do what makes their lives easier & what they feel they can justify to themselves, irrespective of whether that complies with the letter of the HC or not.
It's only a problem when it results in grief (collision, road rage, ticket etc).
I said earlier, it would be up to how an individual officer who saw you views it, I'm not a Police Officer.
I'm merely pointing out what the HC actually says, not the made up stuff.
In my experience though
The Police don't tend to pull over lane hoggers unless extreme cases.
The Police don't tend to pull over those who undertake unless extreme cases.
They are more likely to pull over someone undertaking with large differentials or at speeds in excess of the speed limit.
:Deranged Rover said:
At least they are showing some awareness.
On the M25 last week during the evening rush hour, I came upon a queue of 8 cars in the outside lane, with a family in an MPV at the head of it. They were doing 65mph and absolutely REFUSED to move over when the inner lanes were clear.
The result was that we all ended up undertaking them, there was plenty of flashing of lights and occasional use of the horn, plus one idiot, who I do not condone, pulled back in front of them and then brake-tested them.
The driver looked across at me as I passed him, sounded my horn and made clear indication that he needed to move over. Had no effect though - as i carried on he stayed in the outside lane whilst yet more cars were forced to undertake him.
I really have no idea what was going on in his head.
Same thing Sunday afternoon, M62 Leeds sort of area, dozy bint in her old Focus, totally oblivious to the cars behind flashing. About five cars undertook her finally. V odd.On the M25 last week during the evening rush hour, I came upon a queue of 8 cars in the outside lane, with a family in an MPV at the head of it. They were doing 65mph and absolutely REFUSED to move over when the inner lanes were clear.
The result was that we all ended up undertaking them, there was plenty of flashing of lights and occasional use of the horn, plus one idiot, who I do not condone, pulled back in front of them and then brake-tested them.
The driver looked across at me as I passed him, sounded my horn and made clear indication that he needed to move over. Had no effect though - as i carried on he stayed in the outside lane whilst yet more cars were forced to undertake him.
I really have no idea what was going on in his head.
It becomes a f
k you attitude of the driver infront.
No one wins.
Plus if you undertake and someone moves over you are in a world of pain long after he's sat at home eating his tea.
Why are you missing that 5mph?
Surgery that you need to perform?
Dying relative
New season of Emmerdale?
With instant Internet we've become GET OUT OF MY WAY NOW culture. No patience.
Again back to my own punished pass experience. It was an empty motorway not the autobahn.
k you attitude of the driver infront. No one wins.
Plus if you undertake and someone moves over you are in a world of pain long after he's sat at home eating his tea.
Why are you missing that 5mph?
Surgery that you need to perform?
Dying relative
New season of Emmerdale?
With instant Internet we've become GET OUT OF MY WAY NOW culture. No patience.
Again back to my own punished pass experience. It was an empty motorway not the autobahn.
Edited by Hugo Stiglitz on Wednesday 17th August 07:41
Just pass the MLM on the inside at your current speed. You are paying attention anyway and will be watching in case they do start to move into L1 (we all know they will not) and carry on your day. They (the MLM) will never know you have passed them, seriously they will never know.
There is enough stress in life, just pass them and leave them to their own little day dream. :-)
There is enough stress in life, just pass them and leave them to their own little day dream. :-)
CarCrazyDad said:
The smart motorways is a huge waste of money, just enforce people to be in the correct lanes.
The extra lane added to the m23 has done nothing to reduce middle lane morons, and this week I worked out why this was.It's quite simple.
It's because they added the new lane to the left hand side of the motorway.
What they should have done is added it to the right hand side of the motorway.
Joking aside, as I've just remarked in another thread, the UK police aren't funded to police every law, so pick the ones that seem important to them.
Mlms irritate me massively, and I would support camera enforcement, which surely can't be that hard, especially if they rolled it into a camera that could detect mobile phone usage.
MDT said:
Just pass the MLM on the inside at your current speed. You are paying attention anyway and will be watching in case they do start to move into L1 (we all know they will not) and carry on your day. They (the MLM) will never know you have passed them, seriously they will never know.
There is enough stress in life, just pass them and leave them to their own little day dream. :-)
This in spades. When I first started driving, if you undertook anyone, they would take great offence to it and flash their lights, honk their horn and some would even chase you. Now it's the other way around. 99.5% don't notice or care because #worldrevolvesaroundthem #me. And maybe 0.5% get irked, despite the fact that it's their own stupidity that is the fundamental cause of the situation [insert two rights don't make a wrong campaign group].There is enough stress in life, just pass them and leave them to their own little day dream. :-)
MDT said:
Just pass the MLM on the inside at your current speed. You are paying attention anyway and will be watching in case they do start to move into L1 (we all know they will not) and carry on your day. They (the MLM) will never know you have passed them, seriously they will never know.
There is enough stress in life, just pass them and leave them to their own little day dream. :-)
Most of my long distance travel involves towing a race car. Trailers are banned from the outside lane on motorways. MLMs present a dilemma unless I'm willing to crawl along behind them. Either overtake them illegally using the outside lane, or pass them in lane 1 with questionably legality.There is enough stress in life, just pass them and leave them to their own little day dream. :-)
I choose the second option. MLMs continue crawling along in mindless oblivion.
Hugo Stiglitz said:
It becomes a fk you attitude of the driver infront.
No one wins.
Plus if you undertake and someone moves over you are in a world of pain long after he's sat at home eating his tea.
Why are you missing that 5mph?
Surgery that you need to perform?
Dying relative
New season of Emmerdale?
With instant Internet we've become GET OUT OF MY WAY NOW culture. No patience.
Again back to my own punished pass experience. It was an empty motorway not the autobahn.
You're digging yourself deeper with every new post...k you attitude of the driver infront. No one wins.
Plus if you undertake and someone moves over you are in a world of pain long after he's sat at home eating his tea.
Why are you missing that 5mph?
Surgery that you need to perform?
Dying relative
New season of Emmerdale?
With instant Internet we've become GET OUT OF MY WAY NOW culture. No patience.
Again back to my own punished pass experience. It was an empty motorway not the autobahn.
Edited by Hugo Stiglitz on Wednesday 17th August 07:41
However... Given it was an empty motorway, it is interesting to know the reasons why.
Do you feel safer with lots of space both sides of you?
Laziness?
It was a conscious choice right?
MightyBadger said:
vonhosen said:
As I said though, nobody adheres to the HC all of the time.
There are many who do, don’t tar everyone with your brush because you don’t adhere to it.You never exceeded a speed limit?
At all, ever?
Don't believe you.
Never followed closer than two second gap?
Never, ever at all?
Don't believe you.
Never missed timed a signal?
Never, ever?
Don't believe you.
There are too many things you could have fallen foul of for you to never transgress at all ever.
If you say you never have, you're a fantasist.
Perfection in driving terms does not exist.
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