Driving feeling? Detached from the world...

[J4CKO]

alangla said:

If you’ve got the cash, buy some sort of white goods for a daily and something like a Mk7 Fiesta ST as a fun car. I loved mine, most fun car I’ve owned and the best handling. I’m currently running an Octavia VRS and it’s similar to how you’re describing the S5, fast, effective, deathly dull. I probably won’t buy another fast VAG.

Yep, this.

You think that as you go up the ranks, and the cars get faster, posher and bigger that you would enjoy them more, but its not always the case as you do get isolated from the process.

An S5 is a lovely car but its designed to cosset, but we dont always want cosseting, especially if we enjoy the feeling of something a little more raw.

Now, some folk love big wafty auto barges that make huge distances seem like nothing, and they arent wrong, its just preference and on occasion I like a bit of a waft.

But, dont do many miles so dont need that kind of car, You mention the Mk7 ST and I bought one getting on for two years ago and I love it, there is something so satisfying about driving it, especially since I have got it how I want it with modifications. Fantastic gearchange, corners far faster than I can, makes a reasonable noise for a four pot and goes like a mad bd, not for everyone but I love it, get one before all the Kyles and Jordans wreck them or the scrotes nick them all.

Suppose cars are like holidays, super posh top end all inclusive with the missus is your big barge, where the ST is a week with your mates in Magaluf, no its not refined and relaxing, its noisy, bouncy, bloody good fun and you get to make a tit of yourself..

Can pay 150 grand for a BMW M3 from 1989, cant see it being 140 grand more fun/enjoyable.

And they are modern enough not to have to live like a monk, heated seats, air con, airbags, DAB radio etc.

[spoodler]

"Maybe I was expecting too much from riding motorbikes."

That may be the telling comment. I've been into bikes as my main form of transport and as a "lifestyle" for decades. Many of my mates own nice cars, I've driven all of them, Audi S8, Bentley, Mercedes E350(?), Roush Mustang among others... none of them give the sort of feedback that you get from a bike. Nowadays, my bikes are all oldish, and slow by most standards, but it isn't the performance that's key... it's the feedback.
The nearest I get to a similar feeling with four wheels is with my old kit cars (or with the old American stuff and the hot rods), but they are, quite honestly, rubbish at everyday driving unless you are seriously committed.

[J4CKO]

spoodler said:

"Maybe I was expecting too much from riding motorbikes."

That may be the telling comment. I've been into bikes as my main form of transport and as a "lifestyle" for decades. Many of my mates own nice cars, I've driven all of them, Audi S8, Bentley, Mercedes E350(?), Roush Mustang among others... none of them give the sort of feedback that you get from a bike. Nowadays, my bikes are all oldish, and slow by most standards, but it isn't the performance that's key... it's the feedback.
The nearest I get to a similar feeling with four wheels is with my old kit cars (or with the old American stuff and the hot rods), but they are, quite honestly, rubbish at everyday driving unless you are seriously committed.

Even a bicycle, in fact especially a bicycle, in fact we go on about interaction and direct steering, feeling of being connected to the road, you dont get much more direct and connected.

Ok, you have to pedal it but come flying down a hill into a bend on a push bike, wind in your face, you get what its about.

[FNG]

Yeah, but lycra. Naaah.

[toasty]

J4CKO said:

Suppose cars are like holidays, super posh top end all inclusive with the missus is your big barge, where the ST is a week with your mates in Magaluf, no its not refined and relaxing, its noisy, bouncy, bloody good fun and you get to make a tit of yourself..

Great analogy!

[Condi]

Interesting comments, thank you. If you look at them as just fast everyday cars then it makes sense, but I guess I was expecting it to be an a usable sports car, rather than an everyday car with some extra power. It's not even especially practical for me as it can't tow a trailer, and 25mpg is not an everyday fuel economy!

May as well get a 250hp 4 pot or 3.0tdi...

[Baldchap]

I'm a biker who also used to have an RS5 (wife did) and then RS4 (mine). Good cars to live with, plenty of power, zero drama. Both got driven to Spain and were great for that job.

I now have an Alpina B5. Lovely car to live with, zero drama. Been to Spain in it, fantastic distance car.

Problem with zero drama and great long distance cruiseability, is typically it means removed from the action, or at least, if you're a biker and a proper driver, you'll want more.

As cars have got 'better' for the majority of people, they have largely got worse for petrolheads.

Get an Elise. That'll sort you out.

[leef44]

Not an Audi but I wanted to ask the same question in general since I have not driven many modern cars now.

I had a 2005 Suzuki Ignis Sport and it just felt so visceral: every bump on the road, complete steering and tyre feel and you can completely trust what it's doing because you know when you are close to the limits. It's something like 980kg, 103bhp, 1.5 engine.

Now I've got a 2018 Suzuki Vitara which is around 1200kg, 120bhp, 1.6 engine.

I did not appreciate how different these cars would be. I guess the Vitara has particulate filter and is geared for economy. I have literally no feel whatsoever, no steering feel, don't know whether the tyres are slippery on the road, throttle response for this manual box is worse (slower) than the slush box in my Mercedes.

I wasn't sure whether this was normal for modern cars now.

[LunarOne]

Baldchap said:

Get an Elise. That'll sort you out.

Or a Boxster/Cayman if the Elise is too hardcore/small. I have four cars: a Boxster S, an Audi A4 Avant, a BMW 330Ci and an old BMW 730i. All 3.0L+ 6-cylinder and RWD except for the Audi which is FWD and 2.0 turbo. The Boxster S is fantastic to drive but I find I can never relax in it and it's not comfy as a long distance car. The 730i is really lovely to drive despite being by far the slowest, but it grips, its handling balance is great and it's as comfortable as staying in bed. The 330Ci is live the 7 but much more chuckable and much faster. A great drive in every respect, but it could have better steering feel.

The Audi is by far the least pleasurable to drive. It's not the slowest, but there's no feedback at all from the steering. It may as well be a tiller. It understeers, it scrabbles for grip, and it doesn't make a nice noise when on the go. But at least it's very practical. I've driven many other Audis including S and RS models, and apart from the AWD giving more grip, they all felt more or less the same. Front-heavy, weighty steering but without feel, and just dull. I've never driven a TT or an R8, but my feeling when it comes to Audi is that it's the kind of car you buy when you not really into driving. I bought mine for my elderly mother, and now that she's no longer with us, I find it handy to have for its utility alone.

[samoht]

I have an old AMG C55, and until recently had an RX-7. Both possessed similar straight-line speed, but very different levels of feel and excitement. The Merc is a 'fast everyday car', which is what I bought it for. The Mazda sits you lower, it's smaller inside, the nose rises under hard acceleration, the turbos give the feeling of exponential acceleration, it makes more noise, there's no traction control, it rotates eagerly in corners - it always gave that addictive 'edge of control' sensation.

I suspect you basically just need a lighter car to give the responsiveness and feel that makes it exciting. A hot hatch is one option, or if possible try to get something designed as a sports car, not an everyday car that's been juiced up. Perhaps an MX-5, MR-2, GT86, Boxster/Cayman, 911, A110, Elise/VX220.

[white_goodman]

I'd suggest a GR86 (if you can get one) or an ND MX5 if you can manage with 2 seats. They're the only 2 new cars that really excite me without going the hardcore Caterham/Lotus route or GT3/full in supercar. Relatively light, just enough power to be fun, not silly money.

[AmyRichardson]

white_goodman said:

I'd suggest a GR86 (if you can get one) or an ND MX5 if you can manage with 2 seats. They're the only 2 new cars that really excite me without going the hardcore Caterham/Lotus route or GT3/full in supercar. Relatively light, just enough power to be fun, not silly money.

Yep, and the GR has the bonus of being a relatively useable thing (emergency rear seats, a boot that can do weekly groceries, folding rear seats) in a way that an MX-5, Alpine, ..., ..., aren't. If the OP has come from a bigger saloon/estate/SUV tthe limited refinement might grate though.

[StuE39]

If you want to feel bumps and a more visceral experience; looks at Honda EP3 / FN2 / FD2 Type Rs. They're not as fast as the S5 but will have more in common with your bike and the FN2 is an absolute bargain at the moment.

[nickfrog]

Perhaps the OP should consider a N55 M2. Not the last word in steering feel but certainly on a different level in terms of interactivity / connection. They even come with a manual box.

[Chicken Chaser]

My 4 series is good on distance but it doesn't feel that dynamic for back road hooning. My missus used to have a 1.4 2010 Civic which you could ring it's neck and could feel a lot of the feedback through the tyres. I hated driving it long distances on A roads but for some back road driving, it was actually a really good steer.

[rallye101]

Hateful things, the manner of driving by them is also horrendous ,stick a 3d BO55 plate on and it sums it up

[_Neal_]

-Cappo- said:

911Spanker said:

In general, Audis are truly terrible to drive so it's no surprise.

Genuine question, as I've no experience of them at all, and I know they're a different beast, but would this, and the OP's view of the test drive, apply to an RS6? Or are they more involving, and a better driving experience?

Good thread. I had a very similar experience to the OP when (a long time ago) I drove an RS6 (C5 so the "Layer Cake" 4.2 twin turbo) about 500 miles in a weekend (rented it). It was the fastest thing I'd driven at the time as well - it was fantastic and very comfortable transport, but deeply uninvolving on a b-road, had little steering feel and was so competent and composed that cornering at speed was about bravery alone. Sounded great and was very fast, and had a lovely cabin, but for actual driver involvement it was poor.

I think I bought my Fiat Coupe 20vt shortly afterwards (seem to recall there was a guy called Cappo on the forum actually )It was measurably worse in every way but so much more involving.

I'd be test driving something like the latest Fiesta ST, OP (I was very impressed with them as a small all-rounder) plus (as said) a Boxster - they are lovely to drive. Caterhams are brilliant but as you say a bit too hardcore for a daily. ETA maybe give an S2000 a go as well? Steering not the best but otherwise plenty of "feels" and that gearbox/engine combo is superb

PS - Saying all Audis are terrible to drive is still obvious nonsense though. I think involvement varies but it's not a criticism levelled at (for example) any R8, the V8 RS4 and a bunch of others. Just bought my first Audi (C7 S6 Avant) and it reminded me of the old RS6 (it's the same power) actually, but I think it's a tiny bit more feelsome through the steering and seat. I like it but I ride a motorbike for more visceral enjoyment, the Audi is family transport really (with the odd bit of fun now and again, largely in a straight line).

Edited by _Neal_ on Wednesday 8th February 21:26

[N111BJG]

As a motorcyclist every car you drive will be lacking that certain something. I have driven cars that are motor bike fast, but they tend to be harsh handling and not compliant or as involving as a bike.

I’ve come to accept that the only driving I really enjoy is on an autobahn at speeds far in excess of where I feel safe on any bike. But somehow I don’t think that’s what the OP has in mind, but probably what fast Audi’s were designed to do.

[_Neal_]

N111BJG said:

As a motorcyclist every car you drive will be lacking that certain something. I have driven cars that are motor bike fast, but they tend to be harsh handling and not compliant or as involving as a bike.

I’ve come to accept that the only driving I really enjoy is on an autobahn at speeds far in excess of where I feel safe on any bike. But somehow I don’t think that’s what the OP has in mind, but probably what fast Audi’s were designed to do.

True, but there's a difference between involvement and outright speed - cornering feel, adjustability, gearshift action, engine responsiveness etc are all big factors in what makes a great sports car (Lotus Elise as mentioned, for example).

[N111BJG]

_Neal_ said:

N111BJG said:

As a motorcyclist every car you drive will be lacking that certain something. I have driven cars that are motor bike fast, but they tend to be harsh handling and not compliant or as involving as a bike.

I’ve come to accept that the only driving I really enjoy is on an autobahn at speeds far in excess of where I feel safe on any bike. But somehow I don’t think that’s what the OP has in mind, but probably what fast Audi’s were designed to do.

True, but there's a difference between involvement and outright speed - cornering feel, adjustability, gearshift action, engine responsiveness etc are all big factors in what makes a great sports car (Lotus Elise as mentioned, for example).

My mate loves his Mk 1 Elise, so much he has spent about £40k changing almost every part of it. (I think the chassis & wings might be original) He admits it’s a bit bumpy & lumpy to drive & it scrapes stuff as it’s so low.
I don’t like it much I’m afraid, nor the quite nice fairly recent one he nearly bought instead.