RE: Final EU vote on 2035 engine phaseout delayed
Discussion
Nomme de Plum said:
Families whose income is at the lowest end of the scale and who cannot get credit do not in the main own cars of any variety.
Villages tend not to have Hi rise apartments but a mix of terrace, semi detached and detached properties. Many of these will have parking including ex local authority housing. Not withstanding if there is demand then commercial providers may well step in.
Enterprising residents will provide their own much like broadband.
Yes currently there is a lag but when I was young car ownership was a rarity with less than 5M privately owned cars. Now it's about 50% of the population.
EVs and charging network will undoubtedly follow a similar trend.
One of our local 'interesting' families who run a series of family enterprises from scrap yards down to tarmac and lucky heather sales has submitted planning to turn one of their yards that is located on the main road through the whole area and which links many of the tourist towns into an EV charging depot that will include shuttle buses to and from the local tourist towns. Villages tend not to have Hi rise apartments but a mix of terrace, semi detached and detached properties. Many of these will have parking including ex local authority housing. Not withstanding if there is demand then commercial providers may well step in.
Enterprising residents will provide their own much like broadband.
Yes currently there is a lag but when I was young car ownership was a rarity with less than 5M privately owned cars. Now it's about 50% of the population.
EVs and charging network will undoubtedly follow a similar trend.
The farmland to the rear has applied for a massive a solar development and the plan is that much of the power generated by that solar farm will be sold direct to car users (typically day trippers who will leave their car for recharging while heading to one of the tourist sites) at a massive premium over what the grid will pay.
All the local venues that attract people with more than 5p have chargers and most villages are all discussing how best to instal chargers for residents that have no parking and how those chargers will interact with all the available destination charging that surrounds them.
Unless a village has an unfair distribution of idiots then they really aren't going to struggle with the future. Unless of course they elect some Labour loon who despises poor people and wants to pedestrianise the village while granting exemptions to the affluent people they're desperate to be allowed to become.
On threads like this, people need to stop banging on about imaginary victims and instead open up the discussion around how they will switch, when that might be and what easy adaptions they may need to make.
swisstoni said:
This absolute tsunami of public charging points in handy places has been touted as just around the corner for years on PH.
There's no real demand for them until we get to the point that people who cannot charge at home or work wish to switch to an EV. Why would Tescos put 100 chargers in their car park when the 5 they've done to date aren't being used yet.
Besides, what would all the whingers have to whinge about if there were loads of chargers for all the EVs they have no plans to buy or use? Would they just switch to whinging about how all these chargers aren't being used?
DonkeyApple said:
swisstoni said:
This absolute tsunami of public charging points in handy places has been touted as just around the corner for years on PH.
There's no real demand for them until we get to the point that people who cannot charge at home or work wish to switch to an EV. Why would Tescos put 100 chargers in their car park when the 5 they've done to date aren't being used yet.
Besides, what would all the whingers have to whinge about if there were loads of chargers for all the EVs they have no plans to buy or use? Would they just switch to whinging about how all these chargers aren't being used?
Supermarkets (as an example of a frequently visited place) don’t see any reason to invest much in charging points (maybe they think we’ll all be riding bikes with big baskets on the front in the future instead of EVs. Or more likely they think they’ll be able to tap up the govt to pay for it, closer to 2030).
So currently a lot of people without home charging options don’t fancy their chances of finding a charge point when they’ll need one and so conclude that EV is not for them.
DonkeyApple said:
There's no real demand for them until we get to the point that people who cannot charge at home or work wish to switch to an EV.
Why would Tescos put 100 chargers in their car park when the 5 they've done to date aren't being used yet.
Besides, what would all the whingers have to whinge about if there were loads of chargers for all the EVs they have no plans to buy or use? Would they just switch to whinging about how all these chargers aren't being used?
We have 4 at our Tesco Extra and they are often unused. Why would Tescos put 100 chargers in their car park when the 5 they've done to date aren't being used yet.
Besides, what would all the whingers have to whinge about if there were loads of chargers for all the EVs they have no plans to buy or use? Would they just switch to whinging about how all these chargers aren't being used?
Supply will increase in line with demand.
There may at some point need to be some government/local authority intervention but certainly not yet and then only where a totally commercial approach is not viable.
SpeckledJim said:
havoc said:
Would you like to try walking your young kids 3-4 miles to the next village (where the nearest school is), down country roads with no paths? In winter?
Do yourself a favour - use your brain before posting s
t, eh?...
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...
swisstoni said:
It’s a bit chicken and egg isn’t it.
Supermarkets (as an example of a frequently visited place) don’t see any reason to invest much in charging points (maybe they think we’ll all be riding bikes with big baskets on the front in the future instead of EVs. Or more likely they think they’ll be able to tap up the govt to pay for it, closer to 2030).
So currently a lot of people without home charging options don’t fancy their chances of finding a charge point when they’ll need one and so conclude that EV is not for them.
They conclude correctly though. Supermarkets (as an example of a frequently visited place) don’t see any reason to invest much in charging points (maybe they think we’ll all be riding bikes with big baskets on the front in the future instead of EVs. Or more likely they think they’ll be able to tap up the govt to pay for it, closer to 2030).
So currently a lot of people without home charging options don’t fancy their chances of finding a charge point when they’ll need one and so conclude that EV is not for them.
Just imagine how thick someone would be to go into massive debt for an EV without checking first if they had a driveway, had a suitable power supply, could charge at work or that the at would do what they need it to do?
Luckily the cost of new cars does limit how many idiots can be idiots in this regard.
Supermarkets et al are just going to keep adding chargers as their customers require. At this moment in time their customers require precisely bugger all chargers which is why they're all empty now they've started charging money to use them.
. They were previously just frequented by freeloading bums, the sort of people who pick up used chewing gum, half smoked cigarettes or pop to the neighbours for a dump to save on toilet roll cost. 
Chargers are easy to add. They will just be added as people need them. Not before. It's not field of dreams, it's the real world.
Soupdragon65 said:
Why do you refer to EVs as ‘milk floats’?
Do you have a visceral dislike for them that prejudices your views on their merits and limitations maybe?
Has it occurs to you that such casual use of language makes your point less credible not more?
haha, replies like this are golden.Do you have a visceral dislike for them that prejudices your views on their merits and limitations maybe?
Has it occurs to you that such casual use of language makes your point less credible not more?
It may not have occurred to you that I do indeed view battery powered vehicles as milk floats because I find them sterile, gimmicky, impractical, old technology concept and mostly a big virtue signalling effort by many who are signed up to the belief that the planet only has about 8 to 10 years left before it catches fire and everyone burns to death.
Casual use of language; sure its casual, these forums are not much for formal 'solicitor' style legal discussions are they? They are for casual chit chat. And its no issue to me if your view is that my comments are credible or not, this is always a case of if you are agreeing with my opinion or opposing it, where at the end of the day it is simply my personal opinion.
Given the usual PH style of debate, I presume there will now be a reply by someone who will pick up on every negative mentioned above to try and dismiss it. Please do so, but bear in mind its my opinion and won't be changed given my experience with the range of milk floats that I've had the displeasure of driving.
DonkeyApple said:
What is generally expected is that the lifespan of an EV will be greater than an ICE as there are fewer costly consumables to trigger the scrapping event. It's also currently expected that most used EVs will benefit from a battery refurb in their lifetime.
Some significant 'hopes' in that response 
I've seen some reports that due to the cold UK winters that the lifespan of milk float batteries is significantly less than say the climate in California or Texas.
The cost of replacing/refurbishing batteries is also likely to increase over time IF the government do go ahead with their authoritarian rule and mandate that everyone can only buy new vehicles in milk float format, because the demand on mined materials will significantly increase and it is only a matter of time before pressure groups force governments to take action over the slave labour that is digging your materials for producing/refurbishing batteries out of the ground.
There are a good number of inconvenient truths that are often brushed under the carpet with milk floats.
So I'm hopeful that as ICE engine become ever more efficient and that the realities of milk float ownership, practicalities and 'truths' become more apparent, that governments can reign in on their authoritarianism and take away the ridiculous ban on ICE they have imposed.
Edited by GroundZero on Saturday 25th March 11:52
GroundZero said:
haha, replies like this are golden.
It may not have occurred to you that I do indeed view battery powered vehicles as milk floats because I find them sterile, gimmicky, impractical, old technology concept and mostly a big virtue signalling effort by many who are signed up to the belief that the planet only has about 8 to 10 years left before it catches fire and everyone burns to death.
Casual use of language; sure its casual, these forums are not much for formal 'solicitor' style legal discussions are they? They are for casual chit chat. And its no issue to me if your view is that my comments are credible or not, this is always a case of if you are agreeing with my opinion or opposing it, where at the end of the day it is simply my personal opinion.
Given the usual PH style of debate, I presume there will now be a reply by someone who will pick up on every negative mentioned above to try and dismiss it. Please do so, but bear in mind its my opinion and won't be changed given my experience with the range of milk floats that I've had the displeasure of driving.
Perhaps the milk bottles clanking together caused your displeasure.It may not have occurred to you that I do indeed view battery powered vehicles as milk floats because I find them sterile, gimmicky, impractical, old technology concept and mostly a big virtue signalling effort by many who are signed up to the belief that the planet only has about 8 to 10 years left before it catches fire and everyone burns to death.
Casual use of language; sure its casual, these forums are not much for formal 'solicitor' style legal discussions are they? They are for casual chit chat. And its no issue to me if your view is that my comments are credible or not, this is always a case of if you are agreeing with my opinion or opposing it, where at the end of the day it is simply my personal opinion.
Given the usual PH style of debate, I presume there will now be a reply by someone who will pick up on every negative mentioned above to try and dismiss it. Please do so, but bear in mind its my opinion and won't be changed given my experience with the range of milk floats that I've had the displeasure of driving.
GroundZero said:
There are a good number of inconvenient truths that are often brushed under the carpet with milk floats.
Totally agree, the truth that batteries do indeed mostly last for the life of the car even in cold conditions and the truth that batteries do not use rare-earth elements in their construction.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rare-earth_element
GroundZero said:
There is a thread already running on the battery lifespan issue: https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
The thread is in desperate need of more armchair experts to put right the posters who do this sort of thing for a living, the sole remaining expert is finding it a bit tough.
Perhaps you could you head over there and say hi.
As for the battery materials, if you are going to throw your toys out, at least throw them in the right direction.
These are the minerals you are supposed to be outraged about. Do make a note that all of them are recyclable at near 100% retrieval using low energy recovery methods.
GT9 said:
Strangely Brown said:
GT9 said:
I'd be inclined to let it be.
Gives something for the recycling boys to cut their teeth on.
Where a battery is non-repairable and is structural it is very unlikely to be replaceable at anything remotely close to a reasonable cost. I would expect that to have a seriously adverse effect on its used value.Gives something for the recycling boys to cut their teeth on.
It's hardly going to matter if it's damaged or even whether that's an insurance write-off or not.
Much discussion recently about batteries on the EV threads and in GG has centred around their recyclability, and the problem of not having enough feedstock yet to demonstrate high-volume recyclability.
I'm suggesting, with tongue partially in cheek, that this might help get the recycling plants going.
Call it seeking opportunity where others might see threat
https://www.euronews.com/green/2023/03/23/this-com...
GroundZero said:
otolith said:
Last car I scrapped was because it wasn't worth fixing the diesel injectors.
A modern ICE car is a much more complicated machine, with much more electronics, than a modern electric car. A modern engine is an electromechanical device, not something running on carbs and distributors.
Wonder how many milk floats will be scrapped by people in the future when they realise the cost of replacing the the batteries.A modern ICE car is a much more complicated machine, with much more electronics, than a modern electric car. A modern engine is an electromechanical device, not something running on carbs and distributors.
NMNeil said:
What is sad about that article is how it talks about the damage from all the fresh water use in northern Chile. Meanwhile, VW is down in southern Chile desalinating vast amounts of water using renewable wind energy and then using that water to make methanol so a few people in Europe can drive around in some very expensive new cars after 2035. It does highlight the madness of these industrial businesses.
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