RE: Final EU vote on 2035 engine phaseout delayed
Discussion
kambites said:
Well yes but how many of those are truly mass-market vehicles? Releasing 20 different £60k+ models isn't going to keep the German automotive market going. VAG have the MEB-based cars but compared to the cars coming out of the East they're utterly outclassed in just about every way.
The ID3 is decent spec Golf money and there are squillions of them about. The i3 is cheaper than that. I know it won't come as a surprise, but remember that all cars are spectacularly expensive these days, not just German ones.
You have to go back to basics as others have already said.
Each country has their own unique geographical context.
Some countries have geothermal resources, some (Africa, Chile, Australia) have solar and we have offshore wind. France of course realised this a long time ago hence their embracing of nuclear which is sensible given their lack of any of the above.
What you do with that electricity (which is what all these resources of course produce in the first instance) is much further down the decision tree but making synthetic fuels to power cars is a long way down that list.
Far better to mitigate the transition using existing fossil fuels in as efficient a way as possible than to allow distractions such as consumer synthetic fuels or hydrogen to divert attention from the areal goal which is mass use of electricity as the storage medium for energy.
For mass use nothing else has the efficiency of an electric motor to make personal transportation sustainable.
Each country has their own unique geographical context.
Some countries have geothermal resources, some (Africa, Chile, Australia) have solar and we have offshore wind. France of course realised this a long time ago hence their embracing of nuclear which is sensible given their lack of any of the above.
What you do with that electricity (which is what all these resources of course produce in the first instance) is much further down the decision tree but making synthetic fuels to power cars is a long way down that list.
Far better to mitigate the transition using existing fossil fuels in as efficient a way as possible than to allow distractions such as consumer synthetic fuels or hydrogen to divert attention from the areal goal which is mass use of electricity as the storage medium for energy.
For mass use nothing else has the efficiency of an electric motor to make personal transportation sustainable.
swisstoni said:
GT9 said:
swisstoni said:
China is typing ….
You've called me several things, never a Chinese bot. Nice to see a bit of variation.Not everything is about you. Had to believe but there we are.
So what do you think is the right way forward?
dvs_dave said:
Worth posting again.
And what's interesting is that he is only talking about synthesising an alcohol not even considering the energy and monetary cost of running FT. Porche are basically just making some really expensive tramp juice down in Chile and then trying to tell everyone it's Château Lafite Rothschild.
GT9 said:
swisstoni said:
GT9 said:
swisstoni said:
China is typing ….
You've called me several things, never a Chinese bot. Nice to see a bit of variation.Not everything is about you. Had to believe but there we are.
So what do you think is the right way forward?
Now; how have you made this out to be some kind of pop at you?
swisstoni said:
My comment was that China will be very happy to supply cheaper EVs if European makers can’t manage it.
Now; how have you made this out to be some kind of pop at you?
The irony being that battery cars in China will be built with and home use cars powered almost exclusively by coal and other fossil fuels.Now; how have you made this out to be some kind of pop at you?
pheonix478 said:
swisstoni said:
My comment was that China will be very happy to supply cheaper EVs if European makers can’t manage it.
...
They're only cheaper if you ignore the end cost of sponsoring another massive expansionist dictatorship with a serious demographic problem....
The EU need to make sure they don’t make their home market desperate for cheap, dubiously produced ‘green’ cars whilst simultaneously kicking their own vehicle industry in the nuts imho.
The green energy they speak of isn't some magical source of power that appears out of nowhere, it needs a machine to generate it whether a solar panel or a wind turbine they all need to be manufactured...all manufacturing has emissions of some description you are kidding yourself if you believe these types of power generation is green.
Add up all the emissions from making these so called green power generators and all of a sudden they are far from green.
Everything comes at a cost...green energy is a massive cost we can't afford.
Add up all the emissions from making these so called green power generators and all of a sudden they are far from green.
Everything comes at a cost...green energy is a massive cost we can't afford.
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