RE: Final EU vote on 2035 engine phaseout delayed
Discussion
911hope said:
Where is this excess renewable energy coming from?
How does hydrogen compare as a storage medium...real data please.
Hydrogen is difficult expensive and hazardous to transport. Long distance energy transport would be better done as short chain hydrocarbons, while hydrogen is best stored and used where it is made. There are other options such as liquid air, GPE etc even where pumped hydro is not feasible.How does hydrogen compare as a storage medium...real data please.
Is really anyone believing that a current petrol station can be simply converted into a hydrogen filling station?
It will actually need to be rebuilt from scratch. And the investment will not be anywhere near the one for a new petrol station.
You will also need specialized personnel to fill hydrogen into vehicle, I don't think it would be a good idea let the average Joe play around with it.
And then there is the time: how long will it take to fill a tank of hydrogen?
There will be multiple precautions in place to avoid any "spillage", so it won't be a quick task as filling a petrol tank. If the whole process of filling a tank (wait for the operator -> Security checks -> Filling of the tank) takes 10 or 15 minutes, then what's the point of it when I can recharge the EV in about the same time, by myself?
It will actually need to be rebuilt from scratch. And the investment will not be anywhere near the one for a new petrol station.
You will also need specialized personnel to fill hydrogen into vehicle, I don't think it would be a good idea let the average Joe play around with it.
And then there is the time: how long will it take to fill a tank of hydrogen?
There will be multiple precautions in place to avoid any "spillage", so it won't be a quick task as filling a petrol tank. If the whole process of filling a tank (wait for the operator -> Security checks -> Filling of the tank) takes 10 or 15 minutes, then what's the point of it when I can recharge the EV in about the same time, by myself?
AlexIT said:
Is really anyone believing that a current petrol station can be simply converted into a hydrogen filling station?
It will actually need to be rebuilt from scratch. And the investment will not be anywhere near the one for a new petrol station.
You will also need specialized personnel to fill hydrogen into vehicle, I don't think it would be a good idea let the average Joe play around with it.
And then there is the time: how long will it take to fill a tank of hydrogen?
There will be multiple precautions in place to avoid any "spillage", so it won't be a quick task as filling a petrol tank. If the whole process of filling a tank (wait for the operator -> Security checks -> Filling of the tank) takes 10 or 15 minutes, then what's the point of it when I can recharge the EV in about the same time, by myself?
Petrol isn’t exactly a friendly substance to manage and handle either. Yet it’s been made fully available to the public.It will actually need to be rebuilt from scratch. And the investment will not be anywhere near the one for a new petrol station.
You will also need specialized personnel to fill hydrogen into vehicle, I don't think it would be a good idea let the average Joe play around with it.
And then there is the time: how long will it take to fill a tank of hydrogen?
There will be multiple precautions in place to avoid any "spillage", so it won't be a quick task as filling a petrol tank. If the whole process of filling a tank (wait for the operator -> Security checks -> Filling of the tank) takes 10 or 15 minutes, then what's the point of it when I can recharge the EV in about the same time, by myself?
Hydrogen filling facilities do exist already, mostly in bus depots.
swisstoni said:
Petrol isn’t exactly a friendly substance to manage and handle either. Yet it’s been made fully available to the public.
Hydrogen filling facilities do exist already, mostly in bus depots.
Yeah, but still easier to manage if just for the fact of being liquid at atmospheric pressure. Hydrogen filling facilities do exist already, mostly in bus depots.
I'm not saying it can't be done, but as you point out, filling facilities are in depots and not on the road accessible to anyone.
AlexIT said:
Yeah, but still easier to manage if just for the fact of being liquid at atmospheric pressure.
I'm not saying it can't be done, but as you point out, filling facilities are in depots and not on the road accessible to anyone.
Yes, a liquid stored at ambient pressure that needs to vapourise to burn is simply not the same thing as a pressurised gaseous substance with the smallest known molecule size, the lowest flammability threshold and not detectible by sight or smell.I'm not saying it can't be done, but as you point out, filling facilities are in depots and not on the road accessible to anyone.
When hydrogen burns the flame speed is nearly 10 times that of hydrocarbons.
What this means is that for a stored quantity of energy, the resulting explosion in an accident is vastly more destructive due to the pressure wave it creates.
Hydrogen is used as a cooling gas inside huge electrical generators to reduce the friction losses that occur with air.
Occasionally, due to lax maintenance or incorrect procedure, the hydrogen reminds us why it doesn't occur naturally anywhere on the planet.
Here is a classic example of what happens: https://hydrogen-central.com/explosion-eskom-medup...
Like I said, if you take liberties, expect carnage.
Ask yourself, how good are we at not cutting corners here in the UK?
If one doesn't like the answer, then one really shouldn't be championing hydrogen as our saviour.
The universe gave us a brilliant carrier for hydrogen to deal with its extreme nature, its called carbon.
braddo said:
Through the ignorance of 500TORQUE comes enlightenment (for those who read the responses to his posts!)
Cheeky bugger"Hydrogen is expected to play an important role in decarbonising heavy modes of transport and lighter duty vehicles where energy density requirements, infrastructure constraints and refuelling times favour hydrogen-based fuels. As an early source of demand, the transport sector will be crucial to driving near-term low carbon hydrogen production and wider sector development. The Department for Transport (DfT) is committed to working towards greater understanding of hydrogen demand projections in transport and how transport fits into the wider hydrogen economy. "
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/governmen...
500TORQUES said:
Cheeky bugger
"Hydrogen is expected to play an important role in decarbonising heavy modes of transport and lighter duty vehicles where energy density requirements, infrastructure constraints and refuelling times favour hydrogen-based fuels. As an early source of demand, the transport sector will be crucial to driving near-term low carbon hydrogen production and wider sector development. The Department for Transport (DfT) is committed to working towards greater understanding of hydrogen demand projections in transport and how transport fits into the wider hydrogen economy. "
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/governmen...
That quote hardly amounts to a plan and even if it did, since when did the government execute a plan?"Hydrogen is expected to play an important role in decarbonising heavy modes of transport and lighter duty vehicles where energy density requirements, infrastructure constraints and refuelling times favour hydrogen-based fuels. As an early source of demand, the transport sector will be crucial to driving near-term low carbon hydrogen production and wider sector development. The Department for Transport (DfT) is committed to working towards greater understanding of hydrogen demand projections in transport and how transport fits into the wider hydrogen economy. "
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/governmen...
Do you believe the other things they say they will do?
The responses to your posts are compelling. I am learning a lot but I'm afraid it is only coming from the replies to your posts.Richard-D said:
bigothunter said:
Richard-D said:
911hope said:
bigothunter said:
You've preached about the difference between g and G but can't even get F=ma correct 
You agree on g and G?
GT9 said:
Pure hydrogen is not a substance you f
k about with, it bites very, very hard when you take too many liberties.
To me it makes far more sense to store it well away from the general public or urban environments.
The refuelling should probably be done at base or at dedicated truck-only stations.
The first big hydrogen accident we have will shut the whole thing down for years when the public wake up and st their pants as to just how destructive the stuff is, like it did in Norway.
The physical properties of hydrogen, including molecule size, flammability range and flame speed are very poorly understood.
There are for too many people for my liking thinking 'it's just like petrol.'
Hydrogen incident in Santa Clara caused some excitement. Given high risks associated with hydrogen, surprising there have not been more accidents.k about with, it bites very, very hard when you take too many liberties.To me it makes far more sense to store it well away from the general public or urban environments.
The refuelling should probably be done at base or at dedicated truck-only stations.
The first big hydrogen accident we have will shut the whole thing down for years when the public wake up and s
t their pants as to just how destructive the stuff is, like it did in Norway.The physical properties of hydrogen, including molecule size, flammability range and flame speed are very poorly understood.
There are for too many people for my liking thinking 'it's just like petrol.'
First fuel call bus to 'let go' in a busy London street will be a game changer...
GT9 said:
Pure hydrogen is not a substance you fk about with, it bites very, very hard when you take too many liberties.
To me it makes far more sense to store it well away from the general public or urban environments.
Reinforced concrete blast walls have been constructed at London Hydrogen Refuelling Station (HRS), Perivale, West London:k about with, it bites very, very hard when you take too many liberties.To me it makes far more sense to store it well away from the general public or urban environments.
https://cinea.ec.europa.eu/news-events/news/inaugu...
https://www.cardonenergy.co.uk/perivale-bus-depot-...
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