RE: Final EU vote on 2035 engine phaseout delayed
Discussion
Pan Pan Pan said:
But you appear to be saying that despite the fact that batteries always take much longer to recharge, the regenerative system in an EV can suddenly put back energy into a battery in seconds. It cannot, and a lot of that so called reclaimed energy is still going to be wasted as heat in the brakes. Unless of course you have invented a battery that can take bake large amounts of energy in seconds.
Just on the subject of the effectiveness of regen braking.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yvjgD7Fo4Xs
NomduJour said:
Nomme de Plum said:
The major advantage of EVs particularly in built up areas is the removal of other very definitely toxic chemicals that ICEs emit. Not to mention noise pollution.
What about PM pollution?What parts of a car make most noise at low urban speeds?
Put it another way, in order to accelerate, the EV powertrain has to deliver a certain rate of energy say 300kW, why is it so hard to understand than under braking it can to exactly the reverse and take that energy at the same rate back into the battery?
It's a cycle, where only a small proportion of the energy is converted to heat (although eventually all of it is of course.) Most of it is flowing between kinetic and (stored) electrical energy back and forth. In an ICE powertrain by comparison the energy stored in fuel is on a one way 'journey' to become waste heat.
That the vehicle moves is just shuffling pieces on a chess board, it's irrelevant.
It's a cycle, where only a small proportion of the energy is converted to heat (although eventually all of it is of course.) Most of it is flowing between kinetic and (stored) electrical energy back and forth. In an ICE powertrain by comparison the energy stored in fuel is on a one way 'journey' to become waste heat.
That the vehicle moves is just shuffling pieces on a chess board, it's irrelevant.
NomduJour said:
Nomme de Plum said:
The major advantage of EVs particularly in built up areas is the removal of other very definitely toxic chemicals that ICEs emit. Not to mention noise pollution.
What about PM pollution?What parts of a car make most noise at low urban speeds?
DMZ said:
NMNeil said:
They already went though the dog and pony show for years, with Germany and Italy agreeing to phase out ICE cars.
They were different times and very different governments. There is massive grass roots opposition to these and other changes in quite a few European countries and it’s bubbling up now. https://www.transportenvironment.org/discover/comb...
havoc said:
DonkeyApple said:
On the continent you have trials with ideas like overhead cables but it's only logistically feasible a solution at certain points where there is a below average level of road infrastructure.
If only there was an existing transport infrastructure with such overhead cables that could be used to transport large amounts of haulage between key depots? 
Pan Pan Pan said:
But you appear to be saying that despite the fact that batteries always take much longer to recharge, the regenerative system in an EV can suddenly put back energy into a battery in seconds. It cannot, and a lot of that so called reclaimed energy is still going to be wasted as heat in the brakes. Unless of course you have invented a battery that can take bake large amounts of energy in seconds.
This is where you went wrong.The kinetic energy of a 2 ton car travelling at 70 mph is 0.27 kWh.
The average EV battery holds 50 kWh, or more.
Continuous charging of the battery to add say 50 kWh of energy over 1 hour or so is a totally different and separate event to recovering say 0.5 kWh of kinetic energy.
For a start, it's 100 or 200 times less energy we are talking about.
Secondly, the rate at which the energy was added during acceleration (i.e. the power) is usually similar to the rate at which it is recovered during regenerative braking.
So as long as the drivetrain can work in both directions at the same short-duration power ratings, which it can in an EV, then the friction brakes aren't used.
They are there primarily for safety and emergency situations in an EV.
To be honest, even if you didn't use regenerative braking in an EV, it would still be vastly more efficient than an ICE because the electric motor delivers power from the battery to the driven wheels at very high efficiency, in some case over 90%.
An ICE can only deliver about 25% of the energy in the fuel to the drivetrain, and then that is further eroded by the losses in the multi-ratio gearbox.
That massive thing on the front of your car called the radiator is where most of the energy in the fuel goes......
The single biggest reason why EVs are a thing is that they require far less energy from mother earth to travel a certain distance.
And it's not just a little bit less, it about 4 times less.
NomduJour said:
What about PM pollution?
What parts of a car make most noise at low urban speeds?
Not all PMs are equal. What parts of a car make most noise at low urban speeds?
The correct question to be asking is what is toxic about PM from tyres?
We know the issue with incomplete combustion PM waste in the presence of toxins but if we are going to state that PM waste from tyre compounds is toxic we should at least ask why and how?
DonkeyApple said:
NomduJour said:
What about PM pollution?
What parts of a car make most noise at low urban speeds?
Not all PMs are equal. What parts of a car make most noise at low urban speeds?
The correct question to be asking is what is toxic about PM from tyres?
We know the issue with incomplete combustion PM waste in the presence of toxins but if we are going to state that PM waste from tyre compounds is toxic we should at least ask why and how?
https://www.thetyrecollective.com
DonkeyApple said:
if we are going to state that PM waste from tyre compounds is toxic we should at least ask why and how?
There's the question - the WHO certainly don't seem to know, given they recently revised their "thresholds" downwards four or fivefold. Doesn't appear to be much in the way of new evidence, so were they guessing then, or are they guessing now?Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff