RE: Final EU vote on 2035 engine phaseout delayed

[500TORQUES]

bigothunter said:

ICE should be banned from city and town centres with hybrids allowed in electric mode only. Also attention is needed with other NOx generators such as gas cookers, especially those with hoods. Closed interior spaces are often more polluted than city air.

Diesels are still diesels regardless of application. Paradoxically downsized turbo DI petrol engines have many common features with diesels, included elevated combustion temperatures which generate NOx.

Starve everyone in a city, great idea.

I bet you were freeking out in the 70's heating your crumpet over the coal fire under candle light.

[Undercover McNoName]

SpeckledJim said:

And I think VW are currently on a big lobbying job against the 2035 deadline, aren't they? So given they're regular winners of the Vladimir Putin Award for Honesty & Integrity, I'd be slightly sceptical about the result of any investigation they commissioned.

[Undercover McNoName]

500TORQUES said:

Starve everyone in a city, great idea.

I bet you were freeking out in the 70's heating your crumpet over the coal fire under candle light.

The 70’s were 50 years ago. With the knowledge we have today, there’s no reason to be ignorant.

[500TORQUES]

Undercover McNoName said:

The 70’s were 50 years ago. With the knowledge we have today, there’s no reason to be ignorant.

It was a joke.

We currently still need goods transporting via LGV and HGV.

[GT9]

Pepperpots said:

I will stick with those numbers until VW (or another car maker) revise them.

The government have been listening to your grumblings and have produced a web page especially for you:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/common-...

And, for hours of fun, here is an interactive page where you can select where the battery was made, the nature of the battery supply chain, which country the EV will be driven in, which decade you are looking at and what type if ICE you want to compare it to:

https://www.transportenvironment.org/discover/how-...

Your challenge is to find the worst case combination for the EV and then announce that to the world as gospel.

[bigothunter]

500TORQUES said:

bigothunter said:

ICE should be banned from city and town centres with hybrids allowed in electric mode only. Also attention is needed with other NOx generators such as gas cookers, especially those with hoods. Closed interior spaces are often more polluted than city air.

Diesels are still diesels regardless of application. Paradoxically downsized turbo DI petrol engines have many common features with diesels, included elevated combustion temperatures which generate NOx.

Starve everyone in a city, great idea.

I bet you were freeking out in the 70's heating your crumpet over the coal fire under candle light.

Only if the ICE ban was rushed through with no coordinated plan. So yes, you could be right

London is already heading in this direction (eg LEVC taxi fleet). I expect central London to be the first to ban ICE with other cities and larger towns jumping on the bandwagon. Timing around 2030, maybe a couple of years later.

[pheonix478]

Soupdragon65 said:

911hope said:

Your efforts to educate ppp are admirable.

But ultimately pointless

What ppp needs is to retake gcse physics.

[D4rez]

bigothunter said:

ICE should be banned from city and town centres with hybrids allowed in electric mode only. Also attention is needed with other NOx generators such as gas cookers, especially those with hoods. Closed interior spaces are often more polluted than city air.

Diesels are still diesels regardless of application. Paradoxically downsized turbo DI petrol engines have many common features with diesels, included elevated combustion temperatures which generate NOx.

This is what Euro7 brings, the car will be geofenced “know” when it’s in a city and force the engine to shut off in hybrids. It will then force the user to pull over and charge if the battery is low. Great idea

[GT9]

pheonix478 said:

What ppp needs is to retake gcse physics.

I think he was actually in the class of 1658 with Sir Isaac Newton but, given the time-lapse, some memory loss is understandable.

[SpeckledJim]

GT9 said:

pheonix478 said:

What ppp needs is to retake gcse physics.

I think he was actually in the class of 1658 with Sir Isaac Newton but, given the time-lapse, some memory loss is understandable.

Was he a bench?

[bigothunter]

GT9 said:

pheonix478 said:

What ppp needs is to retake gcse physics.

I think he was actually in the class of 1658 with Sir Isaac Newton but, given the time-lapse, some memory loss is understandable.

[ITP]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Except you seem to be using a highly optimistic 4miles per kWh, when it’s been tested many times, the current real world average is about 3 miles, in summer. Knock a chunk off in winter. Of course EV’s vary, a few may get 4, some SUV’s barely get 2.

A bit like diesel mpg claims, range claims for EV’s is generally 25-30% out. It’s like history repeating itself. When will the ‘My EV claim’ adverts start I wonder?

[SpeckledJim]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Well, mine gets 4 on my 25 mile Each way commute.

Let’s call it 3 though. Is 26.4 miles more or less than 10 miles?

[NDNDNDND]

GT9 said:

And, for hours of fun, here is an interactive page where you can select where the battery was made, the nature of the battery supply chain, which country the EV will be driven in, which decade you are looking at and what type if ICE you want to compare it to:

https://www.transportenvironment.org/discover/how-...

To be fair, feasible or not, that website does neatly demonstrate why it would be good to aspire to renewable fuels...

[ITP]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

I’m no scientist, I’m not going to dispute where all the figures come from, and how accurate they are. It a highly complex subject. There are well known phrases about statistics though….
Whether you fall on the side of EV or ICE I’m sure the statistics for each camp can, and are, loaded to make their case. Governments are a prime example of course.

[JAMSXR]

bigothunter said:

ICE should be banned from city and town centres with hybrids allowed in electric mode only. Also attention is needed with other NOx generators such as gas cookers, especially those with hoods. Closed interior spaces are often more polluted than city air.

Diesels are still diesels regardless of application. Paradoxically downsized turbo DI petrol engines have many common features with diesels, included elevated combustion temperatures which generate NOx.

They should ban cars full stop in that case. Incentivise walking, cycling, and public transport. Turning consumerism towards EVs isn’t the be-all and end-all…

[braddo]

ITP said:

I’m no scientist, I’m not going to dispute where all the figures come from, and how accurate they are.

Except you are disputing them.

And despite being no scientist, you also think man made climate isn’t real, am i right?

[GT9]

NDNDNDND said:

GT9 said:

And, for hours of fun, here is an interactive page where you can select where the battery was made, the nature of the battery supply chain, which country the EV will be driven in, which decade you are looking at and what type if ICE you want to compare it to:

https://www.transportenvironment.org/discover/how-...

To be fair, feasible or not, that website does neatly demonstrate why it would be good to aspire to renewable fuels...

I think they are giving e-fuel a free pass on the assumption that the infrastructure for green hydrogen production, CO2 capture and liquid fuel production is pre-existing.

Only a few months later the same author then produced this....
https://www.transportenvironment.org/wp-content/up...

As for the breakeven vs fossil fuelled ICEs, it seems you would need to be a driving an executive car in Poland in 2023 with a Chinese manufactured battery to need 70,000 miles.

That 2023 scenario in the UK is only 20,000 miles.

Fast-forward to 2030 and the Polish fat cat in his executive saloon can break even at under 35,000 miles.

The configurator highlights the high sensitivity to location and timeline.

[Soupdragon65]

NDNDNDND said:

GT9 said:

And, for hours of fun, here is an interactive page where you can select where the battery was made, the nature of the battery supply chain, which country the EV will be driven in, which decade you are looking at and what type if ICE you want to compare it to:

https://www.transportenvironment.org/discover/how-...

To be fair, feasible or not, that website does neatly demonstrate why it would be good to aspire to renewable fuels...

There’s no e fuel option in the configurator that I can see?

Also there’s the small issue that the authors stare quite clearly that efuel production is not scalable to supply even a small proportion of the car fleet so it’s moot. And lastly their analysis assumes the CO2 required to produce the efuel is freely available. At the scale required it isn’t ( which is smother way of stating the previous point) and once you start looking at the energy requirements and environmental impact if direct carbon capture the whole thing breaks down.

There’s also the inconvenient fact that efuels (in fact all hydrocarbon fuels) are so energy inefficient, around 4-5 times worse than BEV.

If you can make enough efuel from renewable energy to 100% power the car fleet you would need up to 5x the amount of renewable electricity than if you just powered them directly as EVs.

So why not produce 80% of that amount of efuel and just bury it, then with the remaining 20% of electricity you could still power the whole fleet of EVs

Synthetic fuels at consumer scale are just snake oil.



So nice try (where did you get that graph?) but fail.

Edited by Soupdragon65 on Wednesday 22 March 06:09

[GT9]

Soupdragon65 said:

There’s no e fuel option in the configurator that I can see?

Set the year to 2030.