Vapes and Vauxhalls hatred
Discussion
Yeah, my thing is that nicotine use on it's own has a significant risk of artery hardening with the stroke and heart attack risk that entails. As well as the unknown effect of inhaling clouds of simple syrup on your lungs.
I get that it cuts out a lot of the toxic chemicals that smoking has and I guess it's about acceptable risk for something you enjoy. I could still justify drinking to myself now, even though it's done a lot of damage to my life over the years.
I get that it cuts out a lot of the toxic chemicals that smoking has and I guess it's about acceptable risk for something you enjoy. I could still justify drinking to myself now, even though it's done a lot of damage to my life over the years.
ZedLeg said:
Yeah, my thing is that nicotine use on it's own has a significant risk of artery hardening with the stroke and heart attack risk that entails. As well as the unknown effect of inhaling clouds of simple syrup on your lungs.
I'm not sure that's the case;https://www.bhf.org.uk/informationsupport/heart-ma...
I don't believe they usually contain sugar, either - usually sucralose.
Fermit said:
And Vauxhall, yes, we own one. A 2015 2.0d Elite Nav, same inc the colour as the below pic.
You know what, it's a very good car. Plenty quick enough (295lb ft torque) frugal, well equipped, and it's been incredibly reliable over approaching 100k miles. And as for the looks, tell me that if you took the Griffin badges off it, and replaced them with something German that people wouldn't be swooning over the looks.
When I had a bump in it in 2017 we were loaned a then very new Mondeo estate. I was pleased to get back in the Insignia after a stint with it. The Ford did have far nicer seats, but IMO that was about it. And for the record, I've owned 3 mk3 Mondeos previously, and would say that all things considered they're the most all round able cars I've owned.
I had an new Insignia for a week or so in 2015 while my Mk4 Mondeo was in for repair (after someone drove into it while parked). Interior I thought looked smarter than the Mondeo (although to be fair to the Mondeo it was 7 years newer!) but everything else was worse. You know what, it's a very good car. Plenty quick enough (295lb ft torque) frugal, well equipped, and it's been incredibly reliable over approaching 100k miles. And as for the looks, tell me that if you took the Griffin badges off it, and replaced them with something German that people wouldn't be swooning over the looks.
When I had a bump in it in 2017 we were loaned a then very new Mondeo estate. I was pleased to get back in the Insignia after a stint with it. The Ford did have far nicer seats, but IMO that was about it. And for the record, I've owned 3 mk3 Mondeos previously, and would say that all things considered they're the most all round able cars I've owned.
One of the few photos I took of it (technically was my wife taking photos of stuff at the Safari Park but this one ended up being mostly the car!)
The thing felt like it was designed by multiple committees that never ever talked to one another and as a "family" car it was seriously lacking.
The rear seat belts clips were recessed in-board so the childrens car seats sat "on" them, meant they couldn't do their own seat belts.
The rear headrests got in the way of the childrens seats...and they wouldn't come out without folding the seats down because the roof line slopped down so much.
The boot was too big. I know that seems a stupid thing to say for a family car but it was so massive anything near the seat you couldn't reach and because of the hatchback style high boot entrance was a royal pain.
The (electronic) handbrake was annoying (and while generally I find electronic handbrakes to be a solution in search of a problem the one on our VW is absolutely fine).
The parcel shelf wouldn't stay on.
Handling was vague, uninspiring and at best meh.
The engine (1.8 petrol) was horrible, it was like the designer had tried to make it as diesel like as possible but in doing so lost *all* of the appeal of a petrol and was seriously lacking vs a diesel. Pointless to rev as there was nothing up top, basically a (small) chunk of low torque followed by nothing. IIRC it was meant to be 140hp or so, no idea where they hid that. It was a turgid lump of s
t. The thing that summed it up for me was the handbook. It was jammed, diagonally into the glove box (and so pretty much occupying all of it) because it didn't fit anywhere else. On some brands you have a nicely engineered compartment for the handbook, or it nestles neatly in the bottom of the glove box. Not for Vauxhall, the committee that had designed the handbook hadn't had a single thought about where it would fit and just didn't care.
I'm prejudiced against Vauxhalls.
They were the staple in our family growing up as my dad got them as company cars. They would breakdown regularly. Everything from little niggles to complete engine failures. I learned to drive in a Nova and shared an Astra with my sister as my first car. When I got my first job I bought myself a 205gti. I honestly couldn't believe how it drove compared to the sty Vauxhalls I'd been driving.
Dare say they are better now but around here the only local dealership is a Vauxhall one so they are all owned by people that don't have any interest in cars and can't be arsed looking beyond the local shop. As a result they are generally driven like dodgems.
I also have a low opinion of vapists.
I smoked for years. One day I gave up. No gum, no patches, just decided I didn't want to do it anymore so I stopped. I get that it's not as easy for everyone but if anything I actually view it as being lower on the pecking order of vices than smoking. At least smokers aren't kidding themselves. I hate walking through clouds of sickly sweet smelling vapour and personally think flavoured ones should be banned. If anything it might stop some kids from trying the pathetic habit.
They were the staple in our family growing up as my dad got them as company cars. They would breakdown regularly. Everything from little niggles to complete engine failures. I learned to drive in a Nova and shared an Astra with my sister as my first car. When I got my first job I bought myself a 205gti. I honestly couldn't believe how it drove compared to the s
ty Vauxhalls I'd been driving.Dare say they are better now but around here the only local dealership is a Vauxhall one so they are all owned by people that don't have any interest in cars and can't be arsed looking beyond the local shop. As a result they are generally driven like dodgems.
I also have a low opinion of vapists.
I smoked for years. One day I gave up. No gum, no patches, just decided I didn't want to do it anymore so I stopped. I get that it's not as easy for everyone but if anything I actually view it as being lower on the pecking order of vices than smoking. At least smokers aren't kidding themselves. I hate walking through clouds of sickly sweet smelling vapour and personally think flavoured ones should be banned. If anything it might stop some kids from trying the pathetic habit.
otolith said:
ZedLeg said:
Yeah, my thing is that nicotine use on it's own has a significant risk of artery hardening with the stroke and heart attack risk that entails. As well as the unknown effect of inhaling clouds of simple syrup on your lungs.
I'm not sure that's the case;https://www.bhf.org.uk/informationsupport/heart-ma...
I don't believe they usually contain sugar, either - usually sucralose.
Fastdruid said:
The thing felt like it was designed by multiple committees that never ever talked to one another and as a "family" car it was seriously lacking.
The rear seat belts clips were recessed in-board so the childrens car seats sat "on" them, meant they couldn't do their own seat belts. this bit I get. My wife's gran always struggled getting her belt in. Is it a bad thing mind, to ensure that you are happy they are belted up properly?
The rear headrests got in the way of the childrens seats...and they wouldn't come out without folding the seats down because the roof line slopped down so much.on ours the headrests adjust so their base is all the way up to the top of the seat back. Did your example not?
The boot was too big. I know that seems a stupid thing to say for a family car but it was so massive anything near the seat you couldn't reach and because of the hatchback style high boot entrance was a royal pain.Surely this illustration applies to many estates out there? Its size is something we liked, how much it can fit in. Our one group gripe is the low floor to ceiling height. Our Dobe x has to crouch or lie.
The (electronic) handbrake was annoying (and while generally I find electronic handbrakes to be a solution in search of a problem the one on our VW is absolutely fine).never had any issue with this, surely it's an on off button, what makes one good or bad?
The parcel shelf wouldn't stay on. Agreed. This is a bit of crap design all over.
Handling was vague, uninspiring and at best meh.whilst is certainly doesn't 'talk' to you like certain cars I have driven, I can cover point to point in it pretty damn quick. The steering also has a reasonable amount of feel. I can't say what tyres your loan was on (and you probably didn't check either) but ours always has Goodyear F1's fitted.
The engine (1.8 petrol) was horrible, it was like the designer had tried to make it as diesel like as possible but in doing so lost *all* of the appeal of a petrol and was seriously lacking vs a diesel. Pointless to rev as there was nothing up top, basically a (small) chunk of low torque followed by nothing. IIRC it was meant to be 140hp or so, no idea where they hid that. It was a turgid lump of st. ours is the 2.0d, so I can't comment
The thing that summed it up for me was the handbook. It was jammed, diagonally into the glove box (and so pretty much occupying all of it) because it didn't fit anywhere else. On some brands you have a nicely engineered compartment for the handbook, or it nestles neatly in the bottom of the glove box. Not for Vauxhall, the committee that had designed the handbook hadn't had a single thought about where it would fit and just didn't care.whilst the glovebox comment is true, ours sits comfortably in the passenger door pocket.
The rear seat belts clips were recessed in-board so the childrens car seats sat "on" them, meant they couldn't do their own seat belts. this bit I get. My wife's gran always struggled getting her belt in. Is it a bad thing mind, to ensure that you are happy they are belted up properly?
The rear headrests got in the way of the childrens seats...and they wouldn't come out without folding the seats down because the roof line slopped down so much.on ours the headrests adjust so their base is all the way up to the top of the seat back. Did your example not?
The boot was too big. I know that seems a stupid thing to say for a family car but it was so massive anything near the seat you couldn't reach and because of the hatchback style high boot entrance was a royal pain.Surely this illustration applies to many estates out there? Its size is something we liked, how much it can fit in. Our one group gripe is the low floor to ceiling height. Our Dobe x has to crouch or lie.
The (electronic) handbrake was annoying (and while generally I find electronic handbrakes to be a solution in search of a problem the one on our VW is absolutely fine).never had any issue with this, surely it's an on off button, what makes one good or bad?
The parcel shelf wouldn't stay on. Agreed. This is a bit of crap design all over.
Handling was vague, uninspiring and at best meh.whilst is certainly doesn't 'talk' to you like certain cars I have driven, I can cover point to point in it pretty damn quick. The steering also has a reasonable amount of feel. I can't say what tyres your loan was on (and you probably didn't check either) but ours always has Goodyear F1's fitted.
The engine (1.8 petrol) was horrible, it was like the designer had tried to make it as diesel like as possible but in doing so lost *all* of the appeal of a petrol and was seriously lacking vs a diesel. Pointless to rev as there was nothing up top, basically a (small) chunk of low torque followed by nothing. IIRC it was meant to be 140hp or so, no idea where they hid that. It was a turgid lump of s
t. ours is the 2.0d, so I can't commentThe thing that summed it up for me was the handbook. It was jammed, diagonally into the glove box (and so pretty much occupying all of it) because it didn't fit anywhere else. On some brands you have a nicely engineered compartment for the handbook, or it nestles neatly in the bottom of the glove box. Not for Vauxhall, the committee that had designed the handbook hadn't had a single thought about where it would fit and just didn't care.whilst the glovebox comment is true, ours sits comfortably in the passenger door pocket.
Edited by Fermit on Thursday 16th March 17:24
Fermit said:
Fastdruid said:
The thing felt like it was designed by multiple committees that never ever talked to one another and as a "family" car it was seriously lacking.
The rear seat belts clips were recessed in-board so the childrens car seats sat "on" them, meant they couldn't do their own seat belts. this bit I get. My wife's gran always struggled getting her belt in. Is it a bad thing mind, to ensure that you are happy they are belted up properly?
The rear seat belts clips were recessed in-board so the childrens car seats sat "on" them, meant they couldn't do their own seat belts. this bit I get. My wife's gran always struggled getting her belt in. Is it a bad thing mind, to ensure that you are happy they are belted up properly?
Fermit said:
Fastdruid said:
The rear headrests got in the way of the childrens seats...and they wouldn't come out without folding the seats down because the roof line slopped down so much.on ours the headrests adjust so their base is all the way up to the top of the seat back. Did your example not?
Fermit said:
Fastdruid said:
The boot was too big. I know that seems a stupid thing to say for a family car but it was so massive anything near the seat you couldn't reach and because of the hatchback style high boot entrance was a royal pain.Surely this illustration applies to many estates out there? Its size is something we liked, how much it can fit in. Our one group gripe is the low floor to ceiling height. Our Dobe x has to crouch or lie.
Fermit said:
Fastdruid said:
The (electronic) handbrake was annoying (and while generally I find electronic handbrakes to be a solution in search of a problem the one on our VW is absolutely fine).never had any issue with this, surely it's an on off button, what makes one good or bad?
Fermit said:
Fastdruid said:
The thing that summed it up for me was the handbook. It was jammed, diagonally into the glove box (and so pretty much occupying all of it) because it didn't fit anywhere else. On some brands you have a nicely engineered compartment for the handbook, or it nestles neatly in the bottom of the glove box. Not for Vauxhall, the committee that had designed the handbook hadn't had a single thought about where it would fit and just didn't care.whilst the glovebox comment is true, ours sits comfortably in the passenger door pocket.
Fermit said:
Fastdruid said:
We're going back 8 years now so I can't remember the exact details, just that it was annoying. From memory it was that I never knew which way to operate it because it worked both ways. Or something.
Appreciating something bugged you, but it's a click up to activate, and a firmish push on the accelerator to de-activate
The thing that summed it up for me was the handbook. It was jammed, diagonally into the glove box (and so pretty much occupying all of it) because it didn't fit anywhere else. On some brands you have a nicely engineered compartment for the handbook, or it nestles neatly in the bottom of the glove box. Not for Vauxhall, the committee that had designed the handbook hadn't had a single thought about where it would fit and just didn't care.whilst the glovebox comment is true, ours sits comfortably in the passenger door pocket.
Sure...but then the passenger door pocket can't be used for other stuff!
it would only otherwise be filled with my CD's, as the wife is always bking me about them being everywhere!
Appreciating something bugged you, but it's a click up to activate, and a firmish push on the accelerator to de-activate
The thing that summed it up for me was the handbook. It was jammed, diagonally into the glove box (and so pretty much occupying all of it) because it didn't fit anywhere else. On some brands you have a nicely engineered compartment for the handbook, or it nestles neatly in the bottom of the glove box. Not for Vauxhall, the committee that had designed the handbook hadn't had a single thought about where it would fit and just didn't care.whilst the glovebox comment is true, ours sits comfortably in the passenger door pocket.
Sure...but then the passenger door pocket can't be used for other stuff!
it would only otherwise be filled with my CD's, as the wife is always b
king me about them being everywhere!I bought an Insignia B SRi VXLine with the 1.6 200hp engine.
It goes really well, is economical on a run and I chose it over a Superb (yes the 280 Sportline). It's a really good car that does absolutely everything I need it too. The only thing it hasn't got, that I need, is heated seats but it was a year old when I bought it in 2019.
Yes, it is German.
As for vaping, you can shove it up your ***. Disgusting habit. I don't want to breathe your sh*try nicotine in. There are pubs I used to frequent that now resemble an 80s smoke-filled bar room. Go outside FFS. I now drink where they don't allow it. It's illegal to vape indoors in Spain and it should be here too.
Drivers using one hand to vape and turning their heads to blow it out the window also want shooting.
Seriously, why are people so weak-willed they can't give up altogether?
Vauxhall 1 Vaping 0
It goes really well, is economical on a run and I chose it over a Superb (yes the 280 Sportline). It's a really good car that does absolutely everything I need it too. The only thing it hasn't got, that I need, is heated seats but it was a year old when I bought it in 2019.
Yes, it is German.
As for vaping, you can shove it up your ***. Disgusting habit. I don't want to breathe your sh*try nicotine in. There are pubs I used to frequent that now resemble an 80s smoke-filled bar room. Go outside FFS. I now drink where they don't allow it. It's illegal to vape indoors in Spain and it should be here too.
Drivers using one hand to vape and turning their heads to blow it out the window also want shooting.
Seriously, why are people so weak-willed they can't give up altogether?
Vauxhall 1 Vaping 0
457892345 said:
Until the first corner.
Whilst I don't think it's strictly true, your comment reminded me of the below gag. Years ago I had a Focus ST3, and a near neighbour had an Astra VXR. He always rinsed my car for sts and giggles, I did accordingly back. Tagged him in this posted on Facebook (except it was Astra stated on the pic)He borked the engine in the end going for v-max somewhere in the 140's, so it can't have actually been that scary handling wise
Edited by Fermit on Thursday 16th March 20:39
The gap between vaping and tobacco is a bit like the gap between current AI and human minds (for a topical ChatGPT reference).
Smoking tobacco is inscrutably cool. I'm 15 years past the last time I - heavily - used to smoke, and I've still never replaced it, and now kids who weren't even born when I gave up are addicted. It isn't just a Big Tobacco marketing thing, insidious as that has been. There is something deeply human about playing with death, and smoking is inherently huddled and tribal. Dammit, I still love it, even as I hate it. It is somehow as stupid as humans.
Vaping has never escaped its desperation phase. When you smoke you either do or you don't, and you either do, or you wear your nicotine patches on your sleeve as an admission of human frailty - respectably! You don't stick a sonic screwdriver in your mouth. That's what an AI would do.
Vauxhalls- whatever, but I like the connection you've made. They kind of are judged poorly here, despite the obvious global automotive industry truths which ridicule such brand-association. Somehow, they've ended up as stone-cold unsexy as vaping, which I'd take as a spectacular failing of their marketing people.
We've reached a point where the difference between a recreational device which is absolutely killing people, and another one which is basically non-killing but has unfortunate optics, is analogous to the difference between different artificially maintained brand identities of similar devices. Go us. What a future.
Smoking tobacco is inscrutably cool. I'm 15 years past the last time I - heavily - used to smoke, and I've still never replaced it, and now kids who weren't even born when I gave up are addicted. It isn't just a Big Tobacco marketing thing, insidious as that has been. There is something deeply human about playing with death, and smoking is inherently huddled and tribal. Dammit, I still love it, even as I hate it. It is somehow as stupid as humans.
Vaping has never escaped its desperation phase. When you smoke you either do or you don't, and you either do, or you wear your nicotine patches on your sleeve as an admission of human frailty - respectably! You don't stick a sonic screwdriver in your mouth. That's what an AI would do.
Vauxhalls- whatever, but I like the connection you've made. They kind of are judged poorly here, despite the obvious global automotive industry truths which ridicule such brand-association. Somehow, they've ended up as stone-cold unsexy as vaping, which I'd take as a spectacular failing of their marketing people.
We've reached a point where the difference between a recreational device which is absolutely killing people, and another one which is basically non-killing but has unfortunate optics, is analogous to the difference between different artificially maintained brand identities of similar devices. Go us. What a future.
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