RE: Mirage Countach | The Brave Pill

[Skeptisk]

Important question after the thread resurrection: did it sell for £70k? Anyone know?

BruceNZ was mainly right. Lots of billy big balls saying how it was obviously a fake. For a select group of Lambo nerds maybe but for 99.9% no chance. Like most car enthusiasts of my age I lusted after the Countach in period but I wouldn’t have been able to spot it was a fake in a picture. Maybe if I heard it, but even then I don’t think if I have seen a Countach being driven (can’t even remember when I last saw one in the flesh) so I am not sure.

[blearyeyedboy]

I think you could tell without being a nerd. The proportions are different enough.

That doesn't mean it's not a good effort at a replica though. While not my cup of tea, I appreciate the good quality with that went into this.

[Skeptisk]

blearyeyedboy said:

I think you could tell without being a nerd. The proportions are different enough.

That doesn't mean it's not a good effort at a replica though. While not my cup of tea, I appreciate the good quality with that went into this.

I am not confident that people’s assessment of their ability to tell the difference is going to be an accurate guide, when you consider that 17% of people think they can beat a Chimpanzee in a fight!

https://today.yougov.com/society/articles/35852-li...

[Teddy Lop]

Skeptisk said:

Important question after the thread resurrection: did it sell for £70k? Anyone know?

BruceNZ was mainly right. Lots of billy big balls saying how it was obviously a fake. For a select group of Lambo nerds maybe but for 99.9% no chance. Like most car enthusiasts of my age I lusted after the Countach in period but I wouldn’t have been able to spot it was a fake in a picture. Maybe if I heard it, but even then I don’t think if I have seen a Countach being driven (can’t even remember when I last saw one in the flesh) so I am not sure.

I'm neither your BBB or nerdy by half enough to tell you what the details are but I do love a lambo as my childhood dream car - at least before they became a vw momwagon trim level - but that straightaway struck me as somehow off. *Could* even be wishful thinking on my part, but no more.

To each his own, but I think most of the derision probably stems from the attempt at apologizing for a £70k Chevy powered kitcar as some kind of reasoned alternative worth considering. The brave pill wanting to sample the supercar ownership experience at this price point would be an ambitiously man mathsed Aston/McLaren/etc, heck even an R8(oh now I've done it). At least it'll be sell-on-able at a wearable loss or even appreciate if you play the game right.

And I'm no purist, but my countach kitcar would be the clean 70s lines, with nothing more than light restomod/updating to look at but some more serious potential within.

[Skeptisk]

Teddy Lop said:

Skeptisk said:

Important question after the thread resurrection: did it sell for £70k? Anyone know?

BruceNZ was mainly right. Lots of billy big balls saying how it was obviously a fake. For a select group of Lambo nerds maybe but for 99.9% no chance. Like most car enthusiasts of my age I lusted after the Countach in period but I wouldn’t have been able to spot it was a fake in a picture. Maybe if I heard it, but even then I don’t think if I have seen a Countach being driven (can’t even remember when I last saw one in the flesh) so I am not sure.

I'm neither your BBB or nerdy by half enough to tell you what the details are but I do love a lambo as my childhood dream car - at least before they became a vw momwagon trim level - but that straightaway struck me as somehow off. *Could* even be wishful thinking on my part, but no more.

To each his own, but I think most of the derision probably stems from the attempt at apologizing for a £70k Chevy powered kitcar as some kind of reasoned alternative worth considering. The brave pill wanting to sample the supercar ownership experience at this price point would be an ambitiously man mathsed Aston/McLaren/etc, heck even an R8(oh now I've done it). At least it'll be sell-on-able at a wearable loss or even appreciate if you play the game right.

And I'm no purist, but my countach kitcar would be the clean 70s lines, with nothing more than light restomod/updating to look at but some more serious potential within.

I think a problem is that we were told it was a fake in the headline. Our expectations play a major role on how we perceive things. There is lots of academic studies showing that but I like this prank that exposed wine tasting to be mainly BS:

https://www.vinetur.com/en/2023061573855/tv-show-e...

I could have posted a link to another study where a PhD student gave students studying wine a white and a red wine and asked them to describe the taste. As expected they trotted out all the normal descriptions for the white (floral) and similar for the red (deep). The next week he did the same test but sneakily the “red” wine was actually the white wine with tasteless food colouring. However the descriptions were the same and no student noticed they were drinking the same wine!

[sixor8]

Replicas or 'Evocation' as auctioneers seem to call them will still fetch good money. In 2018, a 1991 Mirage Countach with a Rover V8 fetched £22k + fees at CCA:

https://www.classiccarauctions.co.uk/1991-mirage-c...

£70k I very much doubt!

[Stick Legs]

The replicas I would own are those cars that are financially out of my reach yet based on components from cars I can afford.

Essentially cars that are more than the sum of their parts.

The GT-40 is a great example as is the Jaguar D-Type.

If you can get a GT-40 tub, frames & body made to the correct dimensions from the correct materials, then have a rebuilt & tuned 7 litre Ford V8 & Hewland gearbox you have a very accurate GT-40, which looks, sounds & goes like the real thing for a fraction of the cost of the original.

The D-Type is the same, a Lynx is so close to the real thing, and the real thing is so valuable, that it makes more sense to drive the replica.

But I’m afraid this, and the Challenger E-Type are not for me.

I’m wouldn’t knock anyone for buying it, and if it was at a show I’d be fascinated to see the engineering & how it went together.

But for £70k you could buy one of the best Lotus Esprits in the world AND a Series 1 Elise to get your mid engined thrills.

Which is what I would do.

An Esprit S1 for car shows & an Elise for B-roads.

[Teddy Lop]

Skeptisk said:

I think a problem is that we were told it was a fake in the headline. Our expectations play a major role on how we perceive things. There is lots of academic studies showing that but I like this prank that exposed wine tasting to be mainly BS:

https://www.vinetur.com/en/2023061573855/tv-show-e...

I could have posted a link to another study where a PhD student gave students studying wine a white and a red wine and asked them to describe the taste. As expected they trotted out all the normal descriptions for the white (floral) and similar for the red (deep). The next week he did the same test but sneakily the “red” wine was actually the white wine with tasteless food colouring. However the descriptions were the same and no student noticed they were drinking the same wine!

I agree with you to a point, BS and worthless awards adorn every industry, but they dont define an entire game.

Keeping it on wine we've had a couple of NZ cab savs recently we didn't much care for, then the Mrs nailed it by pointing out they tasted exactly like a sav blanc. It did. Colour and perception of such notwithstanding.

I get that a lot of self delusion goes on, but I also think with a lot of perception it's probably as much as people not caring for the difference so much as being wholly unable to detect it.

[Skeptisk]

Although this replica wouldn’t be for me I would probably rather have a drink with someone who bought it than the hordes of classic car bores that are obsessed with “originality” and “provenance”. I used to own an early 911 (that had been made to look like and perform like a 2.7 RS) and so mixed a bit with the early 911/914/356 crowd. Some of them were so geeky it was frightening - “as yes well that screw is clearly the wrong screw because they only used them on the 911 between May and August 1967 and your car was made in November 1967”. A parody but not that far from the truth.

I’ve driven a few real 2.7 RSs but ironically none of them drove as well as my friends replica, worth about a fifth of the value.

[Tyrell Corp]

Stick Legs said:

But for £70k you could buy one of the best Lotus Esprits in the world AND a Series 1 Elise to get your mid engined thrills.

Which is what I would do.

An Esprit S1 for car shows & an Elise for B-roads.

Snap! just what I was thinking, 70k could buy a genuine supercar.


Seems like average build cost for a Mirrage Countach is £33,000 and 1366 hours. Huge 'investment' 20 years ago even at minimum wage and inflation adjusted build costs.

"This is what I spent so far and it owes me over £.."

https://www.madabout-kitcars.com/kitcar/kitcar_det...

edit: it is claimed a Mirage sold for 71k at auction in Dec 2020.

https://www.carthrottle.com/news/best-lamborghini-...

Edited by Tyrell Corp on Sunday 7th January 15:29

[blearyeyedboy]

Skeptisk said:

I am not confident that people’s assessment of their ability to tell the difference is going to be an accurate guide, when you consider that 17% of people think they can beat a Chimpanzee in a fight!

https://today.yougov.com/society/articles/35852-li...

As the saying goes: You can fool some of the people all of the time...

[Pistom]

As others have said, the idea that this is a £70K car is what bothers many.

It's not my money, not my car so don't care. £70K gives a lot of choice.

I've no idea what the car cost to build but when Mirage originally conceived the idea, there just weren't the number of exotic alternatives around we have these days.

[LuckyThirteen]

Given that petrol heads are a dying breed, I applaud whomever drives it.

They're in awe if the original, and want to enjoy the look of it.

The same reason as I now applaud anybody in what on here would be called a 'chavved up' small car. As equally I appreciate a McLaren.

We are becoming in short supply.

Proper petrol heads wouldn't insult the owner, they'd applaud him. Even if they think he wasted his money.

[DIW35]

That kit has the side strakes that were introduced on the '88 model, affectionately known as the 88 1/2, just before they went over to the 25th Anniversary model, which also had the side strakes, together with a few other changes.

That car is wearing an '85/86 number plate, so you can tell it's not an original from 100 paces - wrong plate for the model it is pretending to be.

[996Type]

Pistom said:

There are many cars I wouldn't want to own no matter what the price - this is one of them. But who gives a st what my taste in cars is.

I wouldn't want it because my eyes snag on the details which make it look not quite as a real one would and as much as I'd like to think that I don't care what others think of me - in reality, I wouldn't want to be seen as a fraud. Yes that makes me pretty weak willed but there you go.

I would however have huge respect to the people who built it and someone who owns it as long as they're not trying to pass it off as a Countach as it is a special car in its own right and I love special cars.

Despite my fraud comment above - I love the idea of a replica which tries to bring benefits over an original whilst still benefitting from the styling of the original.

I think the kit car kings of the day missed an opportunity with the Countach - had they not gone all Miami Vice which was the fashion in the day and gone for the purity of the unobtainable early models with periscope mirror and super smooth detailing - they could now be interesting cars if well implemented in the way we see C type copies now.

Some copy cars (such as some of the C types) can be great cars in their own right. I'm not sure if this one is.

The issue regards the Miami Vice comment is that the era the kit manufacturers were at their peak was around the QV era, the simpler LP400’s were seen as old hat (and many of these originals were themselves dressed up to replicate the later cars).

The 5000S itself was a customer development mostly of the LP400 thanks to Walter Wolf and his private endeavours bolting wings and wheel arches onto his own car.

I knew a couple of the Mirage guys later down the line and they also did work on the originals, some of the appendages were interchangeable that they made and they supplied owners of originals with various side skirts / bumpers etc.

I believe Lee Noble might have been involved in one of the original chassis developments for the Mirage.

The issue was that every car was unique and it depended how well the builder had put the car together, no two were ever alike.

Some replicas were trading for more than both the real LP400 and the Anniversary models at the back end of last century, the earlier cars weren’t appreciated with the hindsight that people award them (rightly so) now.

In the era the replicas were conceived and built in their heyday though, Countaches were trading for well over £100K at the height of the boom and a number of replica manufacturers sprung up to satisfy surging demand (Brighwheel / Mirage / ABS and the source for them all, Prova among them).

The replicas did have some great appeal, they wouldn’t rot, the engine could be configured to your liking and running costs were a fraction of the original.

They were however notoriously difficult to build and the difference between a terrible car and a good one was vast.

They weren’t the real deal though, an earlier poster mentioned a GT40 replica is more “legitimate” than a Countach replica, which seems to be correct. Maybe this is due to being able to 100% match the dimensions so those replicas look “right”, where some Countach replicas are just slightly off?

My ultimate car would be an LP400 and I’d love a well sorted LP400 replica but the cost of this would be over £100K which kills the idea dead as among other things, it would miss the classic car “smell” that original 70’s Italian cars have!

[Skeptisk]

Just to out the £71k into perspective Harry Metcalfe spent £65k on some work on his real Countach last year. Ouch.

[LuckyThirteen]

DIW35 said:

That kit has the side strakes that were introduced on the '88 model, affectionately known as the 88 1/2, just before they went over to the 25th Anniversary model, which also had the side strakes, together with a few other changes.

That car is wearing an '85/86 number plate, so you can tell it's not an original from 100 paces - wrong plate for the model it is pretending to be.

The car enthusiast in me applauds you for your knowledge.

However, I wonder how you've ever managed to get laid.

[Lo-Fi]

Skeptisk said:

Although this replica wouldn’t be for me I would probably rather have a drink with someone who bought it than the hordes of classic car bores that are obsessed with “originality” and “provenance”. I used to own an early 911 (that had been made to look like and perform like a 2.7 RS) and so mixed a bit with the early 911/914/356 crowd. Some of them were so geeky it was frightening - “as yes well that screw is clearly the wrong screw because they only used them on the 911 between May and August 1967 and your car was made in November 1967”. A parody but not that far from the truth.

I’ve driven a few real 2.7 RSs but ironically none of them drove as well as my friends replica, worth about a fifth of the value.

Yours or your friend's? Or are you talking about 2 different 2.7 RS lookey-likeys?

[Skeptisk]

Lo-Fi said:

Skeptisk said:

Although this replica wouldn’t be for me I would probably rather have a drink with someone who bought it than the hordes of classic car bores that are obsessed with “originality” and “provenance”. I used to own an early 911 (that had been made to look like and perform like a 2.7 RS) and so mixed a bit with the early 911/914/356 crowd. Some of them were so geeky it was frightening - “as yes well that screw is clearly the wrong screw because they only used them on the 911 between May and August 1967 and your car was made in November 1967”. A parody but not that far from the truth.

I’ve driven a few real 2.7 RSs but ironically none of them drove as well as my friends replica, worth about a fifth of the value.

Yours or your friend's? Or are you talking about 2 different 2.7 RS lookey-likeys?

Yes friend’s. I had one too.

[irish boy]

It may not be for everyone but someone bought it! Would love a look around it at a show.