RE: Can't get no love from me | PH Footnote
Discussion
smilo996 said:
If we sidestep for a moment the questionable environmental benefit of electric cars in manufacturing terms
Very odd argument given that car manufacturers are pumping out, completely pointless SUV's in record numbers for the muppetry to satisfy their wafeur thin egos and need for status. Ever more marginal functionality, ever more performance, size, materials and kudos. Those are the real waste of manufacturing capacity, no mater how their owners argue to the contrary.
Very odd from the author, no-one should care about the manufacturing they should care about whole life. Plus EVs have nothing to do with Gen Z switching off cars. They're skint and don't care about owning thingsVery odd argument given that car manufacturers are pumping out, completely pointless SUV's in record numbers for the muppetry to satisfy their wafeur thin egos and need for status. Ever more marginal functionality, ever more performance, size, materials and kudos. Those are the real waste of manufacturing capacity, no mater how their owners argue to the contrary.
I’m growing very tired of these boring references to EVs being an appliance or a kettle. I have an i3s and it’s awesome and genuinely puzzled where to go next (hoping Renault 5 EV lives up to concept). Yes, the i3s is flawed in some respects but a hoot to drive and cool design, unique even.
For reference, I have a RS4 V8 and M2. Yes, I adore these cars but the love for i3s is just different.
I admit there are plenty of dull EVs out there (Tesla…) just as there are plenty of dull ICE cars.
There’s also still plenty of time to enjoy and choice on the ICE front and a few more I wouldn’t mind trying if given the chance!
Move on ffs. Billions of quid have been committed to R&D by car manufacturers, the legislators have made their decision - there’s no going back now.
For reference, I have a RS4 V8 and M2. Yes, I adore these cars but the love for i3s is just different.
I admit there are plenty of dull EVs out there (Tesla…) just as there are plenty of dull ICE cars.
There’s also still plenty of time to enjoy and choice on the ICE front and a few more I wouldn’t mind trying if given the chance!
Move on ffs. Billions of quid have been committed to R&D by car manufacturers, the legislators have made their decision - there’s no going back now.
MD835 said:
I’m growing very tired of these boring references to EVs being an appliance or a kettle. I have an i3s and it’s awesome and genuinely puzzled where to go next (hoping Renault 5 EV lives up to concept). Yes, the i3s is flawed in some respects but a hoot to drive and cool design, unique even.
I haven't driven one but I think you've summed up the problem very well - the i3 is unique and the rest are appliances.all the reviews say the same thing. strange that BMW stopped developing it: hoot to drive, compact yet capacious. great package.
pycraft said:
Puddenchucker said:
Interesting that they're all US TV shows. (You missed Magnum !)
What were our contemporary homegrown shows that featured cars an integral or significant part of them?
The Professionals
The Sweeny
The Saint
We had Bond; that was about it. In the 80s the detective shows never had a car chase, so the cops all drove classics (Bergerac, Morse). I think UK shows never featured aspirational cars because the makers couldn't afford them (in the 80s the Mk2 was still "old" rather than "classic" - remember it was about as old as a 1999 S-type is now - and fairly cheap to buy). The shows that had better cars (The Avengers, um, The New Avengers) were made independently for ITV with an eye for the American market. What were our contemporary homegrown shows that featured cars an integral or significant part of them?
The Professionals
The Sweeny
The Saint
That said, regular family viewing in the late 70s in my house included "The Cuckoo Waltz", an undistinguished sitcom except that one of the main characters drove a DeTomaso Pantera with the numberplate "GAV1N".
There was also Dempsey and Makepeace.
A bit late to this…
I once worked in car marketing. We used to split buyers into attitudinal groups to help targeting. Sorry to say this on PH but the largest group didn’t care what their car looked like, how it went or its brand. They just needed transport so reliability, economy and price were the co-ordinates for them. From memory that was over 60% of new car buyers (excluding company cars).
That was 20 years ago; before Uber, car clubs, really strong lager and readily available marijuana.
They never were that keen and now cars are neither needed or fit in with the lifestyle of many youngsters. Plus they are destroying the planet.
The kids who aren’t bothered are the norm. It’s us that are the outliers and we always have been.
Ps. I have a Taycan. It’s bloody marvellous. People who call it an appliance are mental. When I ran my RS6 I did around 6000 miles a year in my v12 vantage. Now it’s more like 600. The appliance must be strong in that one
Pps. Remember. Products don’t drive markets. It’s the other way round. Car manufacturers produce what they can sell, not what they’d like to sell. Don’t blame them. Blame societal development
I once worked in car marketing. We used to split buyers into attitudinal groups to help targeting. Sorry to say this on PH but the largest group didn’t care what their car looked like, how it went or its brand. They just needed transport so reliability, economy and price were the co-ordinates for them. From memory that was over 60% of new car buyers (excluding company cars).
That was 20 years ago; before Uber, car clubs, really strong lager and readily available marijuana.
They never were that keen and now cars are neither needed or fit in with the lifestyle of many youngsters. Plus they are destroying the planet.
The kids who aren’t bothered are the norm. It’s us that are the outliers and we always have been.
Ps. I have a Taycan. It’s bloody marvellous. People who call it an appliance are mental. When I ran my RS6 I did around 6000 miles a year in my v12 vantage. Now it’s more like 600. The appliance must be strong in that one
Pps. Remember. Products don’t drive markets. It’s the other way round. Car manufacturers produce what they can sell, not what they’d like to sell. Don’t blame them. Blame societal development
Edited by Ex Boy Racer on Monday 20th March 20:51
Wab1974uk said:
forzaminardi said:
Younger people are increasingly less desirous of being physically present or together in an experience. The decline of places where young people tend(ed) to congregate - libraries, community centres, pubs, nightclubs, etc - is evidence of this. If you're orientated toward such a lifestyle, it's perfectly possible to live a satisfying and full life without leaving your house. If you want a car, and to drive it, there's probably more readily accessible enjoyment to be had by 'driving' it on a computer screen anyway.
I'm sorry, but how sad is that? The older we get the more staying in on a Friday / Saturday night becomes more enjoyable than going out to pubs & clubs.But from 17-30 I could never imagine choosing a lifestyle where I never left the house and just talked to friends via technology. Part of being young is getting out and about, meeting up with friends. Meeting new people. Getting into daft things. What are you going to do with everyone sat in their own bedrooms?
And we wonder why people are getting fatter.
Next morning was very pissed off as his very lovely girlfriend had unexpectedly turned up so the porn viewing had to be delayed so they could have ‘couple time’.
Go figure
Ex Boy Racer said:
A bit late to this…
I once worked in car marketing. We used to split buyers into attitudinal groups to help targeting. Sorry to say this on PH but the largest group didn’t care what their car looked like, how it went or its brand. They just needed transport so reliability, economy and price were the co-ordinates for them. From memory that was over 60% of new car buyers (excluding company cars).
That was 20 years ago; before Uber, car clubs, really strong lager and readily available marijuana.
They never were that keen and now cars are neither needed or fit in with the lifestyle of many youngsters. Plus they are destroying the planet.
The kids who aren’t bothered are the norm. It’s us that are the outliers and we always have been.
Ps. I have a Taycan. It’s bloody marvellous. People who call it an appliance are mental. When I ran my RS6 I did around 6000 miles a year in my v12 vantage. Now it’s more like 600. The appliance must be strong in that one
Pps. Remember. Products don’t drive markets. It’s the other way round. Car manufacturers produce what they can sell, not what they’d like to sell. Don’t blame them. Blame societal development
Destroying the planet? Easiest to tax I'd say. Cars just part of transport after all. Also EV is being driven by governments not market forces.I once worked in car marketing. We used to split buyers into attitudinal groups to help targeting. Sorry to say this on PH but the largest group didn’t care what their car looked like, how it went or its brand. They just needed transport so reliability, economy and price were the co-ordinates for them. From memory that was over 60% of new car buyers (excluding company cars).
That was 20 years ago; before Uber, car clubs, really strong lager and readily available marijuana.
They never were that keen and now cars are neither needed or fit in with the lifestyle of many youngsters. Plus they are destroying the planet.
The kids who aren’t bothered are the norm. It’s us that are the outliers and we always have been.
Ps. I have a Taycan. It’s bloody marvellous. People who call it an appliance are mental. When I ran my RS6 I did around 6000 miles a year in my v12 vantage. Now it’s more like 600. The appliance must be strong in that one
Pps. Remember. Products don’t drive markets. It’s the other way round. Car manufacturers produce what they can sell, not what they’d like to sell. Don’t blame them. Blame societal development
Edited by Ex Boy Racer on Monday 20th March 20:51
TX.
Terminator X said:
Ex Boy Racer said:
A bit late to this…
I once worked in car marketing. We used to split buyers into attitudinal groups to help targeting. Sorry to say this on PH but the largest group didn’t care what their car looked like, how it went or its brand. They just needed transport so reliability, economy and price were the co-ordinates for them. From memory that was over 60% of new car buyers (excluding company cars).
That was 20 years ago; before Uber, car clubs, really strong lager and readily available marijuana.
They never were that keen and now cars are neither needed or fit in with the lifestyle of many youngsters. Plus they are destroying the planet.
The kids who aren’t bothered are the norm. It’s us that are the outliers and we always have been.
Ps. I have a Taycan. It’s bloody marvellous. People who call it an appliance are mental. When I ran my RS6 I did around 6000 miles a year in my v12 vantage. Now it’s more like 600. The appliance must be strong in that one
Pps. Remember. Products don’t drive markets. It’s the other way round. Car manufacturers produce what they can sell, not what they’d like to sell. Don’t blame them. Blame societal development
Destroying the planet? Easiest to tax I'd say. Cars just part of transport after all. Also EV is being driven by governments not market forces.I once worked in car marketing. We used to split buyers into attitudinal groups to help targeting. Sorry to say this on PH but the largest group didn’t care what their car looked like, how it went or its brand. They just needed transport so reliability, economy and price were the co-ordinates for them. From memory that was over 60% of new car buyers (excluding company cars).
That was 20 years ago; before Uber, car clubs, really strong lager and readily available marijuana.
They never were that keen and now cars are neither needed or fit in with the lifestyle of many youngsters. Plus they are destroying the planet.
The kids who aren’t bothered are the norm. It’s us that are the outliers and we always have been.
Ps. I have a Taycan. It’s bloody marvellous. People who call it an appliance are mental. When I ran my RS6 I did around 6000 miles a year in my v12 vantage. Now it’s more like 600. The appliance must be strong in that one
Pps. Remember. Products don’t drive markets. It’s the other way round. Car manufacturers produce what they can sell, not what they’d like to sell. Don’t blame them. Blame societal development
Edited by Ex Boy Racer on Monday 20th March 20:51
TX.
hu8742 said:
MitchT said:
What is there for today's young to stimulate an emotional connection with motor vehicles?
I would say old runs of Top Gear on Dave but I fear their slightly 'un-woke' views and opinions might jar with today's snowflakes. Plus, a show being presented by three middle-class, middle-aged white men might as well be a show presented by Hitler, Stalin and Mussolini as far as they are concerned. Good article and also enjoyed reading a lot of very well thought through comments (mine not included).
Good article but I don’t think that’s the whole story.
It starts at an earlier age with toys.
My first toys as a child were Matchbox cars, which probably started a lifetime love of cars. Cars were aspirational back in the 70s, not so much now.
Look at toy shops these days, barely a car in sight. No wonder young people aren’t interested in motoring.
Model cars these days are targeted at 40+ year olds often reliving their youth.
On a slightly different slant, why has PH completely missed the launch of the VW ID.2All - the first sign of an affordable EV other than a link to Autocar in the main article.
It starts at an earlier age with toys.
My first toys as a child were Matchbox cars, which probably started a lifetime love of cars. Cars were aspirational back in the 70s, not so much now.
Look at toy shops these days, barely a car in sight. No wonder young people aren’t interested in motoring.
Model cars these days are targeted at 40+ year olds often reliving their youth.
On a slightly different slant, why has PH completely missed the launch of the VW ID.2All - the first sign of an affordable EV other than a link to Autocar in the main article.
Edited by GTEYE on Tuesday 21st March 06:23
t and hates you and your wife, and if you give him the chance he will fGTEYE said:
Good article but I don’t think that’s the whole story.
It starts at an earlier age with toys.
My first toys as a child were Matchbox cars, which probably started a lifetime love of cars. Cars were aspirational back in the 70s, not so much now.
Look at toy shops these days, barely a car in sight. No wonder young people aren’t interested in motoring.
Model cars these days are targeted at 40+ year olds often reliving their youth.
On a slightly different slant, why has PH completely missed the launch of the VW ID.2All - the first sign of an affordable EV other than a link to Autocar in the main article.
Have you been in a toy shop recently? Can only speak of locally, but Smyth toys in Bristol has half an aisle pretty much dedicated to hot wheels, remote control cars etc. Large Adsa, probably a racks worth. There's still plenty in the shops for children. It's probably in later years it becomes less of a fascination for children if anything once they discover gaming/Internet/girls.It starts at an earlier age with toys.
My first toys as a child were Matchbox cars, which probably started a lifetime love of cars. Cars were aspirational back in the 70s, not so much now.
Look at toy shops these days, barely a car in sight. No wonder young people aren’t interested in motoring.
Model cars these days are targeted at 40+ year olds often reliving their youth.
On a slightly different slant, why has PH completely missed the launch of the VW ID.2All - the first sign of an affordable EV other than a link to Autocar in the main article.
Edited by GTEYE on Tuesday 21st March 06:23
GTEYE said:
Good article but I don’t think that’s the whole story.
It starts at an earlier age with toys.
My first toys as a child were Matchbox cars, which probably started a lifetime love of cars. Cars were aspirational back in the 70s, not so much now.
Look at toy shops these days, barely a car in sight. No wonder young people aren’t interested in motoring.
Model cars these days are targeted at 40+ year olds often reliving their youth.
On a slightly different slant, why has PH completely missed the launch of the VW ID.2All - the first sign of an affordable EV other than a link to Autocar in the main article.
My son is 3. At last count he had just under 100 matchbox and hot wheels cars - it borders on obsessive. I have never forced this, though clearly have encouraged it. His three favourite toy cars are all models of ones we have or do own and it's really nice to have something we can share, even at that age. If you go into any toy shop in the land you'll find whole aisles dedicated to cars, so I don't buy that one.It starts at an earlier age with toys.
My first toys as a child were Matchbox cars, which probably started a lifetime love of cars. Cars were aspirational back in the 70s, not so much now.
Look at toy shops these days, barely a car in sight. No wonder young people aren’t interested in motoring.
Model cars these days are targeted at 40+ year olds often reliving their youth.
On a slightly different slant, why has PH completely missed the launch of the VW ID.2All - the first sign of an affordable EV other than a link to Autocar in the main article.
Edited by GTEYE on Tuesday 21st March 06:23
Ex Boy Racer said:
Terminator X said:
Ex Boy Racer said:
A bit late to this…
I once worked in car marketing. We used to split buyers into attitudinal groups to help targeting. Sorry to say this on PH but the largest group didn’t care what their car looked like, how it went or its brand. They just needed transport so reliability, economy and price were the co-ordinates for them. From memory that was over 60% of new car buyers (excluding company cars).
That was 20 years ago; before Uber, car clubs, really strong lager and readily available marijuana.
They never were that keen and now cars are neither needed or fit in with the lifestyle of many youngsters. Plus they are destroying the planet.
The kids who aren’t bothered are the norm. It’s us that are the outliers and we always have been.
Ps. I have a Taycan. It’s bloody marvellous. People who call it an appliance are mental. When I ran my RS6 I did around 6000 miles a year in my v12 vantage. Now it’s more like 600. The appliance must be strong in that one
Pps. Remember. Products don’t drive markets. It’s the other way round. Car manufacturers produce what they can sell, not what they’d like to sell. Don’t blame them. Blame societal development
Destroying the planet? Easiest to tax I'd say. Cars just part of transport after all. Also EV is being driven by governments not market forces.I once worked in car marketing. We used to split buyers into attitudinal groups to help targeting. Sorry to say this on PH but the largest group didn’t care what their car looked like, how it went or its brand. They just needed transport so reliability, economy and price were the co-ordinates for them. From memory that was over 60% of new car buyers (excluding company cars).
That was 20 years ago; before Uber, car clubs, really strong lager and readily available marijuana.
They never were that keen and now cars are neither needed or fit in with the lifestyle of many youngsters. Plus they are destroying the planet.
The kids who aren’t bothered are the norm. It’s us that are the outliers and we always have been.
Ps. I have a Taycan. It’s bloody marvellous. People who call it an appliance are mental. When I ran my RS6 I did around 6000 miles a year in my v12 vantage. Now it’s more like 600. The appliance must be strong in that one
Pps. Remember. Products don’t drive markets. It’s the other way round. Car manufacturers produce what they can sell, not what they’d like to sell. Don’t blame them. Blame societal development
Edited by Ex Boy Racer on Monday 20th March 20:51
TX.
TX.
Interesting on the toy front. My eldest, now 6 is a big car fan, has probably 250+ cars, mostly HotWheels. Taken him to a fair few shows now. He knows every car he sees, and a loud exhaust will turn his head! However I would say since the tablet came into force, his interest has decreased slightly. I don't mind though as he was a bit obsessed at one point! He's big into Lego now and I always encourage hands on stuff.
Taking him to Goodwood this year, first time for both of us
Taking him to Goodwood this year, first time for both of us
Wab1974uk said:
forzaminardi said:
Younger people are increasingly less desirous of being physically present or together in an experience. The decline of places where young people tend(ed) to congregate - libraries, community centres, pubs, nightclubs, etc - is evidence of this. If you're orientated toward such a lifestyle, it's perfectly possible to live a satisfying and full life without leaving your house. If you want a car, and to drive it, there's probably more readily accessible enjoyment to be had by 'driving' it on a computer screen anyway.
I'm sorry, but how sad is that? The older we get the more staying in on a Friday / Saturday night becomes more enjoyable than going out to pubs & clubs.But from 17-30 I could never imagine choosing a lifestyle where I never left the house and just talked to friends via technology. Part of being young is getting out and about, meeting up with friends. Meeting new people. Getting into daft things. What are you going to do with everyone sat in their own bedrooms?
And we wonder why people are getting fatter.
My mum and dad moaned at me for watching too much F1 and BTCC and Indycars on TV, for playing (racing car) computer games too much, for spending my money on Autosport, CAR, and evo. My dad would say "when I was a lad, I'd be out playing football or chases with my mates, not sitting in a room all day". Different times, different generations, different experiences.
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff