RE: Can't get no love from me | PH Footnote
Discussion
I remember when I was at college, a female friend of mine stated "I wouldn't dream of dating a guy without a car or at the very least could stump up cab fare"
So, this was late 80's, there wasn't dating apps and swiping left didn't exist (ask your kids...), so as I was into cars it became pretty important as part of the "dating" thing to have a half decent looking car.
Fast forward to 2023, I'm not surprised that a car has lost importance next to other stuff for the youngsters today.
They don't need it if they live in a City, with "that dating app" you just need a hotel.
Plus cars ain't cheap.
So, this was late 80's, there wasn't dating apps and swiping left didn't exist (ask your kids...), so as I was into cars it became pretty important as part of the "dating" thing to have a half decent looking car.
Fast forward to 2023, I'm not surprised that a car has lost importance next to other stuff for the youngsters today.
They don't need it if they live in a City, with "that dating app" you just need a hotel.
Plus cars ain't cheap.
oedipus said:
Interesting article - I’d far rather such thought pieces than yet another barely discernible Porsche variant or anything BMW.
For me, the car seems a poor second as a means of asserting independence - back in the day a car was a must-have, now the mobile phone has claimed that spot and along with it much of a finite disposable income. Also, though it does nothing for me, an older generation had the sound and smell of cars as key stimuli of their youth whereas these sensations are barely discernible in the cars affordable to those on limited income.
It’s perverse to lay this at the feet of electric cars as much as it is to cling on to the notion that the decline in cars is something to be contested: they do not make as much sense now as they used to and mobility is now a concept that doesn’t need to presume car ownership. I will continue to be overwhelmed by the aesthetics of some cars but even at an age well beyond youth I can see how they will be a diminishing aspect of many people’s lives.
Agreed, it's silly to "blame" electric cars. Irrespective of the mode of power, cars are simply less necessary or desired by many young people living in urban areas. Back then, the rose-tinted view of how things "used to be better" was just as prevalent. Young people didn't buy the little, cheap, tinbox hatchbacks mentioned in the article because they were really good - they bought them because they were cheap. Our dads (speaking on behalf of the generic PHer here!) would probably have moaned back then about how it was easy "in their day" to fix a car, now "you need a laptop and a PhD in computing to find out what's wrong with it".For me, the car seems a poor second as a means of asserting independence - back in the day a car was a must-have, now the mobile phone has claimed that spot and along with it much of a finite disposable income. Also, though it does nothing for me, an older generation had the sound and smell of cars as key stimuli of their youth whereas these sensations are barely discernible in the cars affordable to those on limited income.
It’s perverse to lay this at the feet of electric cars as much as it is to cling on to the notion that the decline in cars is something to be contested: they do not make as much sense now as they used to and mobility is now a concept that doesn’t need to presume car ownership. I will continue to be overwhelmed by the aesthetics of some cars but even at an age well beyond youth I can see how they will be a diminishing aspect of many people’s lives.
Before mobile phones, before social media, before everything being convincingly simulated digitally, if you were a (straight male) teenager and you wanted to have a degree of independence from your parents, wanted to pull girls, or wanted to have a laugh with your mates, a car helped. It's easier to do all of those things today without having to mess about finding, paying for, maintaining, parking, taxing, etcing a car.
Marc p said:
I’ve always said that most of those who say they ‘aren’t into cars’, are just people that haven’t driven the right car. If my only experience of cars was 1.2 Corsa’s, diesel Mondeo’s and Renault Scenics, I’d probably have no interest in them either.
Not sure I agree with that. My love affair with cars started with a pedal car I simply HAD to take up and down the garden path before I would eat breakfast. My first (and second) car was a Hillman Imp (showing my age now). I enjoyed taking that to its (enjoyably low) limit at every opportunity and I've enjoyed my cars the same way until this day. OK, I'm fortunate enough to have owned Alfas, Audis, Porsches, Jags, TVRs and Astons, but I can honestly say I've enjoyed them ALL in pretty equal measure. Hell, I even like ringing some hire car's neck on occasion. I've never even tried an electric car (no opportunity), but from reviews I've read, I suspect the only thing I would miss is the noise.
horseshoecrab said:
When I was 17 everyone was desperate to get a car as it gave you freedom to see friends and women whenever you could.
Today my kids still spend every minute of the day happily playing or chatting to friends and chasing boys but it's all online. Despite my best efforts they have little need, desire or in interest in cars. They're just more into spunking money on digital clothes and being addicted to the misery that is tiktok.
I think this is a big part of it. Bringing EVs into the debate seems to miss a lot of what is going on. A lot of youngsters aren't interested in cars/driving because they aren't interested in anything "offline". My step kids would be glued to iPads and phones 24hrs a day if we didn't insist on them doing other things too. They're more than happy talking to randoms online rather than going out with real-life people. They have zero interest in cars aside from a mild curiousity about why I might disappear for a weekend to go to an event. They have no interest in actually going though.Today my kids still spend every minute of the day happily playing or chatting to friends and chasing boys but it's all online. Despite my best efforts they have little need, desire or in interest in cars. They're just more into spunking money on digital clothes and being addicted to the misery that is tiktok.
The addiction youngsters have to this stuff is crazy but understandable, as these devices and the apps on them are designed to be addictive. Discussions like this always remind me of when we went to Dubai a few years ago. At one of the attractions, there was one of these big urban/hip hop dance groups on stage. They were really good, so my missus and I were happily watching them. Her daughter suddenly started tapping my missus on the arm, desperately trying to get her to look at what she was watching on her phone. And what was she watching? A video of an urban/hip hop dance group. She had no interest in the real one that was performing right in front of her, probably because it wasn't shown to her by a social media algorithm. Messing about with a car - whether it's a Cupra Born or a 10-year old Fiesta - doesn't compare to the instant (and free) hit of dopamine offered by TikTok or Snapchat.
MitchT said:
I'm 48. I was raised on a diet of TV shows where, if the motor vehicle wasn't the main feature, there'd at least be one of distinct character used by the star(s) of the show. Off the top of my head...
The Dukes of Hazzard
C.H.I.P.S.
Knight Rider
The A Team
The Fall Guy
Streethawk
Starsky & Hutch
What is there for today's young to stimulate an emotional connection with motor vehicles?
Interesting that they're all US TV shows. (You missed Magnum !)The Dukes of Hazzard
C.H.I.P.S.
Knight Rider
The A Team
The Fall Guy
Streethawk
Starsky & Hutch
What is there for today's young to stimulate an emotional connection with motor vehicles?
What were our contemporary homegrown shows that featured cars an integral or significant part of them?
The Professionals
The Sweeny
The Saint
MitchT said:
I'm 48. I was raised on a diet of TV shows where, if the motor vehicle wasn't the main feature, there'd at least be one of distinct character used by the star(s) of the show. Off the top of my head...
The Dukes of Hazzard
C.H.I.P.S.
Knight Rider
The A Team
The Fall Guy
Streethawk
Starsky & Hutch
What is there for today's young to stimulate an emotional connection with motor vehicles?
I'm your age, raised on all the above, plus - and even more inspiring for me - free-to air Formula 1 to which I was glued from about 1980 season onwards, and the World Rally Championship throughout the Group B years. The Dukes of Hazzard
C.H.I.P.S.
Knight Rider
The A Team
The Fall Guy
Streethawk
Starsky & Hutch
What is there for today's young to stimulate an emotional connection with motor vehicles?
Both these championships, and their cars & drivers, were tremendous throughout those times. There was also often live Rally Cross on Grandstand of a Saturday afternoon, with souped-up little hatchbacks giving it everything.
No wonder us lot grew up loving cars - there was so much to be inspired by, and no other screens to hold our attention. If (as often) there was nothing on TV we'd be outside playing football or cricket.
What is there for today's young ? Lots of other options, for a start. I'm hoping that my kids will be inspired by the feel of driving my 205 when they can reach the pedals. They do say it's cool. Maybe it'll encourage them to get an old manual shed & make it their own.
Puddenchucker said:
Interesting that they're all US TV shows. (You missed Magnum !)
What were our contemporary homegrown shows that featured cars an integral or significant part of them?
The Professionals
The Sweeny
The Saint
We had Bond; that was about it. In the 80s the detective shows never had a car chase, so the cops all drove classics (Bergerac, Morse). I think UK shows never featured aspirational cars because the makers couldn't afford them (in the 80s the Mk2 was still "old" rather than "classic" - remember it was about as old as a 1999 S-type is now - and fairly cheap to buy). The shows that had better cars (The Avengers, um, The New Avengers) were made independently for ITV with an eye for the American market. What were our contemporary homegrown shows that featured cars an integral or significant part of them?
The Professionals
The Sweeny
The Saint
That said, regular family viewing in the late 70s in my house included "The Cuckoo Waltz", an undistinguished sitcom except that one of the main characters drove a DeTomaso Pantera with the numberplate "GAV1N".
I’m 33 and just about to give up on owning something I want again. Ive had almost a car a year, generally hot hatches since gaining the licence at 17.
State of the roads, thefts, insurance premiums, careless others and ultimately the cost has just pushed cars to the back for me.
I’m hardly surprised those younger than me aren’t running to join in.
State of the roads, thefts, insurance premiums, careless others and ultimately the cost has just pushed cars to the back for me.
I’m hardly surprised those younger than me aren’t running to join in.
MitchT said:
I'm 48. I was raised on a diet of TV shows where, if the motor vehicle wasn't the main feature, there'd at least be one of distinct character used by the star(s) of the show. Off the top of my head...
The Dukes of Hazzard
C.H.I.P.S.
Knight Rider
The A Team
The Fall Guy
Streethawk
Starsky & Hutch
What is there for today's young to stimulate an emotional connection with motor vehicles?
I agree this this in part, there was certainly a ‘cars the star’ in the 70s and 80s. This and a mixture of car counter culture (eg 80s and 90s modding scene) made us want cars, we saw them as a chance for freedom, escapism, individuality and impressing the opposite sex. Counter cultures are usually born from times of real austerity (see mods, rockers, punks and acid house scene) and true austerity ended decades ago so it shouldn’t be any surprised our youth aren’t Interested in driving. Add in the green agenda which is very real to the younger generation and voila! The Dukes of Hazzard
C.H.I.P.S.
Knight Rider
The A Team
The Fall Guy
Streethawk
Starsky & Hutch
What is there for today's young to stimulate an emotional connection with motor vehicles?
hoonatic said:
Marc p said:
I’ve always said that most of those who say they ‘aren’t into cars’, are just people that haven’t driven the right car. If my only experience of cars was 1.2 Corsa’s, diesel Mondeo’s and Renault Scenics, I’d probably have no interest in them either.
Not sure I agree with that. My love affair with cars started with a pedal car I simply HAD to take up and down the garden path before I would eat breakfast. My first (and second) car was a Hillman Imp (showing my age now). I enjoyed taking that to its (enjoyably low) limit at every opportunity and I've enjoyed my cars the same way until this day. OK, I'm fortunate enough to have owned Alfas, Audis, Porsches, Jags, TVRs and Astons, but I can honestly say I've enjoyed them ALL in pretty equal measure. Hell, I even like ringing some hire car's neck on occasion. I've never even tried an electric car (no opportunity), but from reviews I've read, I suspect the only thing I would miss is the noise.
I do know people who got into cars at a much later stage but I think the love affair is generally a little different as they missed out on the teenager obsessive stage. Arguably a healthy thing!
hoonatic said:
Marc p said:
I’ve always said that most of those who say they ‘aren’t into cars’, are just people that haven’t driven the right car. If my only experience of cars was 1.2 Corsa’s, diesel Mondeo’s and Renault Scenics, I’d probably have no interest in them either.
Not sure I agree with that. My love affair with cars started with a pedal car I simply HAD to take up and down the garden path before I would eat breakfast. My first (and second) car was a Hillman Imp (showing my age now). I enjoyed taking that to its (enjoyably low) limit at every opportunity and I've enjoyed my cars the same way until this day. OK, I'm fortunate enough to have owned Alfas, Audis, Porsches, Jags, TVRs and Astons, but I can honestly say I've enjoyed them ALL in pretty equal measure. Hell, I even like ringing some hire car's neck on occasion. I've never even tried an electric car (no opportunity), but from reviews I've read, I suspect the only thing I would miss is the noise.
In 2000ish a Saxo VTR with 2 years free insurance which you qualified for from 18 IIRC was about 11 grand.
How much is a Cupra Born with a couple of years insurance for a 18 year old? >40k.
No wonder they're not that bothered.
Houses were 25k up here then, same ones now are 200k.
f
k being young.
How much is a Cupra Born with a couple of years insurance for a 18 year old? >40k.
No wonder they're not that bothered.
Houses were 25k up here then, same ones now are 200k.
f
k being young.ChocolateFrog said:
As a 17 year old I was on about £4.50ph (double on Sundays).
What's the minimum wage these days? £9.something, so less than double, yet the same stuff is atleast 4x more expensive.
Car insurance seems a lot more expensive nowadays for younger people as well(and me to be fair!). What's the minimum wage these days? £9.something, so less than double, yet the same stuff is atleast 4x more expensive.
samoht said:
I don't think these two things are that closely tied together. Today there are still plenty of used cheap petrol cars, the loss of the Fiesta etc has yet to play out in the market where 18 year olds buy 18 year old cars.
Also, if the need was as marked as people make out, then everyone can still buy a Mazda 2, a nice and affordable traditional Fiesta-like small hatchback.
Not nearly as cheap as they were. About a decade ago, my first car was a Puma 1.4 my dad got me from a mate’s dad for £600. It was in decent shape save for a bit of wheel arch rust and at 18 I felt the hogs bAlso, if the need was as marked as people make out, then everyone can still buy a Mazda 2, a nice and affordable traditional Fiesta-like small hatchback.
s driving round in what to my mind was basically a sports car. Had one in an old PS2 rally game too. Then when I crashed it by being a teenage idiot, I got a Rover 45 1.4 in gold with a similar amount of my own money and loved it just as much. Insurance was much more the prohibitive factor than car prices - for £1,500 or so I could have had a Mitsubishi GTO or a Skyline GTS-T.Nowadays yeah there’s still stuff out there for less than a grand (I was looking recently out of curiosity) but it’s all rough as anything. It feels like to get something insurable and in workable condition you’ll be wanting to spend £1,500-£2,000, which may not sound like much to the Powerfully Built Company Directors on here, but it’s a big chunk of change for a teenager, or for a lot of families who are worried you billy is going to bin it into a tree, much more than £600 even considering inflation. Even then, you’re getting a Suzuki Splash or a Peugeot 107, not a sleek Ford coupe or an eccentric velour-seated liftback.
ChocolateFrog said:
In 2000ish a Saxo VTR with 2 years free insurance which you qualified for from 18 IIRC was about 11 grand.
How much is a Cupra Born with a couple of years insurance for a 18 year old? >40k.
No wonder they're not that bothered.
Houses were 25k up here then, same ones now are 200k.
fk being young.
Surely that house price is not normal? I bought a flat in 2003 for £82k. I still have it and pretty sure I’d struggle to get £150k for it if I sold it. It’s in Whitley Bay which has been massively improved over the last 10 years or so too. Maybe I should avoid a career in property investment! How much is a Cupra Born with a couple of years insurance for a 18 year old? >40k.
No wonder they're not that bothered.
Houses were 25k up here then, same ones now are 200k.
f
k being young.Interesting article and those numbers regarding percentages of teens with cars, if indeed true, is actually jaw-dropping. I must confess I think an EV would make for a great daily car for me (if I had the ability to charge it at home, which I don't). The only downfall would be on my 2x UK holidays per year, which involve driving a minimum of 250-300 miles each way and lots of driving when I'm there (this May my destination is 580 miles away, I did it last year and my overall "stop" time was just 35 mins, including refuelling. Plus I occasionally want to drive for the hell of it, with no worries about range etc.
I don't want 2 cars, so an EV is out for me, although I guess, at 34 years old, it's inevitable at some point.
I don't want 2 cars, so an EV is out for me, although I guess, at 34 years old, it's inevitable at some point.
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