RE: EU floats draft proposal in synthetic fuel tussle
Discussion
SpeckledJim said:
Pan Pan Pan said:
GT9 said:
Alternatively, you could grab a calculator and try to quantify what your vision actually involves.
What, like the fact that a Tesla 3, weighs one thousand pounds more than an equivalent ICE Ford Focus. That is like buying a Focus, and discovering it comes with a thousand pound caravan `permanently' attached to the back of it.
Ready to tell us yet, which of 34 and 10 is the bigger number, PPP?
My new favourite poster, I think.
Pan Pan Pan said:
What, like the fact that a Tesla 3, weighs one thousand pounds more than an equivalent ICE Ford Focus.
That is like buying a Focus, and discovering it comes with a thousand pound caravan `permanently' attached to the back of it.
You have been down this road before and failed to make a valid point. Consider efficiency of ice vs EV. It is not a hard concept to grasp. Have a go.That is like buying a Focus, and discovering it comes with a thousand pound caravan `permanently' attached to the back of it.
SpeckledJim said:
Pan Pan Pan said:
GT9 said:
Alternatively, you could grab a calculator and try to quantify what your vision actually involves.
What, like the fact that a Tesla 3, weighs one thousand pounds more than an equivalent ICE Ford Focus. That is like buying a Focus, and discovering it comes with a thousand pound caravan `permanently' attached to the back of it.
Ready to tell us yet, which of 34 and 10 is the bigger number, PPP?
My new favourite poster, I think.
And you are my favourite unthinking, luddite EV zealot, desperately trying to encourage others to buy an EV, so that EV zealots dont get left holding onto their worthless Beta Max cars, Trying to shout down any view or other fuel technology that does not concur with yours.
Tell me, what is heavier the 3000 pounds of an ICE Focus, compared to the 4000 pounds of a Tesla 3, which is given as being a direct EV equivalent to an ICE Focus vehicle type.
You do know that 4000 pounds, is quite a bit heavier than 3000 pounds dont you?
911hope said:
Pan Pan Pan said:
What, like the fact that a Tesla 3, weighs one thousand pounds more than an equivalent ICE Ford Focus.
That is like buying a Focus, and discovering it comes with a thousand pound caravan `permanently' attached to the back of it.
You have been down this road before and failed to make a valid point. Consider efficiency of ice vs EV. It is not a hard concept to grasp. Have a go.That is like buying a Focus, and discovering it comes with a thousand pound caravan `permanently' attached to the back of it.
Pan Pan Pan said:
SpeckledJim said:
Pan Pan Pan said:
GT9 said:
Alternatively, you could grab a calculator and try to quantify what your vision actually involves.
What, like the fact that a Tesla 3, weighs one thousand pounds more than an equivalent ICE Ford Focus. That is like buying a Focus, and discovering it comes with a thousand pound caravan `permanently' attached to the back of it.
Ready to tell us yet, which of 34 and 10 is the bigger number, PPP?
My new favourite poster, I think.
And you are my favourite unthinking, luddite EV zealot, desperately trying to encourage others to buy an EV, so that EV zealots dont get left holding onto their worthless Beta Max cars, Trying to shout down any view or other fuel technology that does not concur with yours.
Tell me, what is heavier the 3000 pounds of an ICE Focus, compared to the 4000 pounds of a Tesla 3, which is given as being a direct EV equivalent to an ICE Focus vehicle type.
You do know that 4000 pounds, is quite a bit heavier than 3000 pounds dont you?
I didn’t think it was as tough as it seems to be.
Ignore and deflect. That’s how arguments get won.
otolith said:
Pan Pan Pan said:
What, like the fact that a Tesla 3, weighs one thousand pounds more than an equivalent ICE Ford Focus.
That is like buying a Focus, and discovering it comes with a thousand pound caravan `permanently' attached to the back of it.
It’s the size of a 3 series, not a Focus, and most versions are lighter than my 335D.That is like buying a Focus, and discovering it comes with a thousand pound caravan `permanently' attached to the back of it.
Pan Pan Pan said:
otolith said:
Pan Pan Pan said:
What, like the fact that a Tesla 3, weighs one thousand pounds more than an equivalent ICE Ford Focus.
That is like buying a Focus, and discovering it comes with a thousand pound caravan `permanently' attached to the back of it.
It’s the size of a 3 series, not a Focus, and most versions are lighter than my 335D.That is like buying a Focus, and discovering it comes with a thousand pound caravan `permanently' attached to the back of it.
Just checking if perhaps the units are confusing you rather than the numbers themselves?
SpeckledJim said:
Pan Pan Pan said:
SpeckledJim said:
Pan Pan Pan said:
GT9 said:
Alternatively, you could grab a calculator and try to quantify what your vision actually involves.
What, like the fact that a Tesla 3, weighs one thousand pounds more than an equivalent ICE Ford Focus. That is like buying a Focus, and discovering it comes with a thousand pound caravan `permanently' attached to the back of it.
Ready to tell us yet, which of 34 and 10 is the bigger number, PPP?
My new favourite poster, I think.
And you are my favourite unthinking, luddite EV zealot, desperately trying to encourage others to buy an EV, so that EV zealots dont get left holding onto their worthless Beta Max cars, Trying to shout down any view or other fuel technology that does not concur with yours.
Tell me, what is heavier the 3000 pounds of an ICE Focus, compared to the 4000 pounds of a Tesla 3, which is given as being a direct EV equivalent to an ICE Focus vehicle type.
You do know that 4000 pounds, is quite a bit heavier than 3000 pounds dont you?
I didn’t think it was as tough as it seems to be.
Ignore and deflect. That’s how arguments get won.
You must tell us all when you have invented a new engine that runs on fairy dust, You will sell them by the boat load.
Pan Pan Pan said:
911hope said:
Pan Pan Pan said:
What, like the fact that a Tesla 3, weighs one thousand pounds more than an equivalent ICE Ford Focus.
That is like buying a Focus, and discovering it comes with a thousand pound caravan `permanently' attached to the back of it.
You have been down this road before and failed to make a valid point. Consider efficiency of ice vs EV. It is not a hard concept to grasp. Have a go.That is like buying a Focus, and discovering it comes with a thousand pound caravan `permanently' attached to the back of it.
Have you noticed you’re the only person on either side making this point?
Pan Pan Pan said:
SpeckledJim said:
Pan Pan Pan said:
SpeckledJim said:
Pan Pan Pan said:
GT9 said:
Alternatively, you could grab a calculator and try to quantify what your vision actually involves.
What, like the fact that a Tesla 3, weighs one thousand pounds more than an equivalent ICE Ford Focus. That is like buying a Focus, and discovering it comes with a thousand pound caravan `permanently' attached to the back of it.
Ready to tell us yet, which of 34 and 10 is the bigger number, PPP?
My new favourite poster, I think.
And you are my favourite unthinking, luddite EV zealot, desperately trying to encourage others to buy an EV, so that EV zealots dont get left holding onto their worthless Beta Max cars, Trying to shout down any view or other fuel technology that does not concur with yours.
Tell me, what is heavier the 3000 pounds of an ICE Focus, compared to the 4000 pounds of a Tesla 3, which is given as being a direct EV equivalent to an ICE Focus vehicle type.
You do know that 4000 pounds, is quite a bit heavier than 3000 pounds dont you?
I didn’t think it was as tough as it seems to be.
Ignore and deflect. That’s how arguments get won.
You must tell us all when you have invented a new engine that runs on fairy dust, You will sell them by the boat load.
Can you agree with me that 34 is bigger than 10?
Pan Pan Pan said:
it is not a hard concept to grasp.
Any you have spectacularly failed.Yes, the amount of kinetic energy carried by an EV can actually be instantly recharged back to the battery.
The battery can hold more than 100 times the typically kinetic energy of the car.
The physics works, the maths works, it all works.
Why do you keep making such a fool of yourself over this point?
SpeckledJim said:
Pan Pan Pan said:
911hope said:
Pan Pan Pan said:
What, like the fact that a Tesla 3, weighs one thousand pounds more than an equivalent ICE Ford Focus.
That is like buying a Focus, and discovering it comes with a thousand pound caravan `permanently' attached to the back of it.
You have been down this road before and failed to make a valid point. Consider efficiency of ice vs EV. It is not a hard concept to grasp. Have a go.That is like buying a Focus, and discovering it comes with a thousand pound caravan `permanently' attached to the back of it.
Have you noticed you’re the only person on either side making this point?
If you dont believe me just check the comparative weights of an ICE Ford Focus and a Tesla 3. it is very easy to do.
I have noticed that the EV zealots need to be bolstered up by their `chums' when desperately trying to convince others, that EVs are the way they should go, especially when they so easily and quickly want to shout down, or denigrate any other form of vehicle fueling technology. The Luddites doth protest `too' loudly one is lead to believe. Perhaps it goes back to the odd characteristic that seems to occur on Piston heads that some here seem to believe that just because `they' believe a certain thing, everyone else must automatically have to do so. Such closed minds are not to be encouraged.
GT9 said:
Pan Pan Pan said:
it is not a hard concept to grasp.
Any you have spectacularly failed.Yes, the amount of kinetic energy carried by an EV can actually be instantly recharged back to the battery.
The battery can hold more than 100 times the typically kinetic energy of the car.
The physics works, the maths works, it all works.
Why do you keep making such a fool of yourself over this point?
Pan Pan Pan said:
GT9 said:
Pan Pan Pan said:
it is not a hard concept to grasp.
Any you have spectacularly failed.Yes, the amount of kinetic energy carried by an EV can actually be instantly recharged back to the battery.
The battery can hold more than 100 times the typically kinetic energy of the car.
The physics works, the maths works, it all works.
Why do you keep making such a fool of yourself over this point?
I have tried, patiently, to explain to you several times how it works and what calculations are involved.
I've qualified the amount of energy we are talking about, I've done the lot.
There is something desperately lacking in your cognitive ability and/or knowledge regarding mechanical and electrical engineering.
If you don't know something, ask questions and try to comprehend the answers.
You are going about the way someone who is 12 or 112 would.
Which one is it?
Pan Pan Pan said:
You are making a fool of yourself, because in blindly promoting EVs you completely mistakenly, are trying to kid people into believing that it takes less energy to move 4000 pounds than it does to move 3000 pounds. Most sane people know that 4000 pound is heavier than 3000 pounds, but somehow you do not.
4000 is bigger than 3000, by 33%.4/3= 1.333333333......
An EV is about 3x more efficient than ICE.
So 3x more energy is required in the tank/battery to do the same work in an ICE car, of similar mass and drag.
Do you think the 33% extra weight offsets this 3x advantage?
Please provide your sums. Perhaps get numerate person to check first.
The proposals on this, whilst very welcome (arguments aside for now), they are simply not practical.
The chemistry in "e-fuels" or just any other sustainable fuel are designed to be identical,i.e. they have the same hydrocarbon structure as their fossil equivalent, unlike different ethanol grades that detect via oxygen sensors. You could in theory put markers into the fuel, such as digital tracers, but the kit used to pick them would not be practical and would easily be by-passed.
The chemistry in "e-fuels" or just any other sustainable fuel are designed to be identical,i.e. they have the same hydrocarbon structure as their fossil equivalent, unlike different ethanol grades that detect via oxygen sensors. You could in theory put markers into the fuel, such as digital tracers, but the kit used to pick them would not be practical and would easily be by-passed.
Fastlane said:
Given Pan Pan Pan quotes weight in lbs, it would suggest he is one of our friends from across the pond.
I'd say it's some kind of protest against anything that is faintly modern. 'Cars can only be started by crank handles, and I wont have it any other way'.
Holding a grudge for 50+ years though, damn, that's got to be such a waste of half a lifetime.
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