RE: EU floats draft proposal in synthetic fuel tussle

[Piston Ted]

GT9 said:

DonkeyApple said:

A genius solution. From 2035 minimum cylinder cc to be 500 and minimum number of cylinders 8.

I wouldn't permit forced induction as that would just be a means for poor people who can only afford to run a V8 to get V12 performance.

Of course, years ago we could have done the switch by just reducing the amount that could be borrowed against an ICE each year while leaving EV finance wide open. Capping finance at £20k for ICE would have pushed almost everyone into trying to go EV just to get a nice car.

Either way, I suspect most people would agree that the control freakery way we've gone about incentivising EVs has been silly.

Settled!
4 litres and above.
8 cylinders and above.
Naturally-aspirated petrol engines only.

That would bring about the return of some truly spectacular engines, most people will choose EV, and we can leave the (not)carbon-neutral e-fuels for aviation.

I’m not sure if you guys are being serious or not . . . But if you are then I agree, I think it’s a great idea. Low volume makers such as Aston, Ferrari, Maclaren etc should never have been included in the ban. Those cars (in my view) need an engine which is such an integral part of their character.

[GT9]

Piston Ted said:

GT9 said:

DonkeyApple said:

A genius solution. From 2035 minimum cylinder cc to be 500 and minimum number of cylinders 8.

I wouldn't permit forced induction as that would just be a means for poor people who can only afford to run a V8 to get V12 performance.

Of course, years ago we could have done the switch by just reducing the amount that could be borrowed against an ICE each year while leaving EV finance wide open. Capping finance at £20k for ICE would have pushed almost everyone into trying to go EV just to get a nice car.

Either way, I suspect most people would agree that the control freakery way we've gone about incentivising EVs has been silly.

Settled!
4 litres and above.
8 cylinders and above.
Naturally-aspirated petrol engines only.

That would bring about the return of some truly spectacular engines, most people will choose EV, and we can leave the (not)carbon-neutral e-fuels for aviation.

I’m not sure if you guys are being serious or not . . . But if you are then I agree, I think it’s a great idea. Low volume makers such as Aston, Ferrari, Maclaren etc should never have been included in the ban. Those cars (in my view) need an engine which is such an integral part of their character.

Serious in the sense that it would be a great outcome.
Not serious in the sense that unfortunately no-one will take it....seriously.

[Pan Pan Pan]

Announced on Saturday, Germany, and the EU have agreed that ICE cars can continue to be built, and sold after 2035. The UK is expected to follow suit.
They may even be able to use the existing infrastructure for ICE vehicles to store, distribute, and sell E Fuels. Good news for anyone with an ICE vehicle!

[GT9]

911hope said:

And with such a tiny market to sell to...who will make these cars and at what price?

The same market that will be the only people who can afford the relative dribble of e-fuel that will be forthcoming in the next 20 years.

But at least we won't be pretending that those cars are carbon-neutral and we can avoid this whole kerfuffle over two separate pumps, detection devices, the inevitable defeat devices that follow, the political wranglings, the corporate cloak and dagger stuff, people trying to dress up natural gas as something else, etc, etc.

[Pan Pan Pan]

GT9 said:

911hope said:

And with such a tiny market to sell to...who will make these cars and at what price?

The same market that will be the only people who can afford the relative dribble of e-fuel that will be forthcoming in the next 20 years.

But at least we won't be pretending that those cars are carbon-neutral and we can avoid this whole kerfuffle over two separate pumps, detection devices, the inevitable defeat devices that follow, the political wranglings, the corporate cloak and dagger stuff, people trying to dress up natural gas as something else, etc, etc.

You really have got serious case of EV zealotry. They may be making pills for that condition. You really should try some when they do.

[GT9]

Pan Pan Pan said:

GT9 said:

911hope said:

And with such a tiny market to sell to...who will make these cars and at what price?

The same market that will be the only people who can afford the relative dribble of e-fuel that will be forthcoming in the next 20 years.

But at least we won't be pretending that those cars are carbon-neutral and we can avoid this whole kerfuffle over two separate pumps, detection devices, the inevitable defeat devices that follow, the political wranglings, the corporate cloak and dagger stuff, people trying to dress up natural gas as something else, etc, etc.

You really have got serious case of EV zealotry. They may be making pills for that condition. You really should try some when they do.

I'm proposing to lift the ban on certain petrol cars you muppet.
You are the one trying to use established engineering principles that you don't understand to very obviously and erroneously make a case against EVs.
And I'm the zealot.
Yeah right.

[Arsecati]

DonkeyApple said:

Done.

Hang on, what would there be for folk to get angry about?

Who gives a ste: won't be able to hear them over the sound through the straight pipes anyway.

[Pan Pan Pan]

GT9 said:

Pan Pan Pan said:

GT9 said:

911hope said:

And with such a tiny market to sell to...who will make these cars and at what price?

The same market that will be the only people who can afford the relative dribble of e-fuel that will be forthcoming in the next 20 years.

But at least we won't be pretending that those cars are carbon-neutral and we can avoid this whole kerfuffle over two separate pumps, detection devices, the inevitable defeat devices that follow, the political wranglings, the corporate cloak and dagger stuff, people trying to dress up natural gas as something else, etc, etc.

You really have got serious case of EV zealotry. They may be making pills for that condition. You really should try some when they do.

I'm proposing to lift the ban on certain petrol cars you muppet.
You are the one trying to use established engineering principles that you don't understand to very obviously and erroneously make a case against EVs.
And I'm the zealot.car manufacturers
Yeah right.

No you are a luddite, harking back to windmills, and a vehicle technology that was proven to be useless, when vehicle technology for both EVs, and ICE vehicle was in its infancy, over a hundred years ago.
Whether `you' propose to lift the ban on petrol cars is irrelevant. It is governments and large car manufacturers who will determine what happens, and they have just stated that they `are' going to allow the manufacture and sale of ICE vehicles to continue beyond 2035. Please dont be a muppet. Try to keep up!

[Pan Pan Pan]

911hope said:

GT9 said:

DonkeyApple said:

A genius solution. From 2035 minimum cylinder cc to be 500 and minimum number of cylinders 8.

I wouldn't permit forced induction as that would just be a means for poor people who can only afford to run a V8 to get V12 performance.

Of course, years ago we could have done the switch by just reducing the amount that could be borrowed against an ICE each year while leaving EV finance wide open. Capping finance at £20k for ICE would have pushed almost everyone into trying to go EV just to get a nice car.

Either way, I suspect most people would agree that the control freakery way we've gone about incentivising EVs has been silly.

Settled!
4 litres and above.
8 cylinders and above.
Naturally-aspirated petrol engines only.

That would bring about the return of some truly spectacular engines, most people will choose EV, and we can leave the (not)carbon-neutral e-fuels for aviation.

And with such a tiny market to sell to...who will make these cars and at what price?

Now you really are being stupid. The people who will make these cars are the ones who are making ICE cars now. The people who will buy them are the millions, who definitely dont want an EV. Or perhaps you are one of the gullible fools, who believes that just because `you' happen to favour EVs, that everyone else should too?

[otolith]

I don't think you understand the scale of electricity generation required to make this a mass market option.

[911hope]

Pan Pan Pan said:

Now you really are being stupid. The people who will make these cars are the ones who are making ICE cars now. The people who will buy them are the millions, who definitely dont want an EV. Or perhaps you are one of the gullible fools, who believes that just because `you' happen to favour EVs, that everyone else should too?

Going called stupid by PPP is quite an achievement.

Actually, I believe there are many challenges in migration to Widespread EV use.

However, that doesn't mean that option of doing something demonstrably worse from an environmental, economic and practical point of view makes any sense.

I can understand why those with weak technical knowledge like the idea, but the numbers don't lie.

[D4rez]

Pan Pan Pan said:

Announced on Saturday, Germany, and the EU have agreed that ICE cars can continue to be built, and sold after 2035. The UK is expected to follow suit.
They may even be able to use the existing infrastructure for ICE vehicles to store, distribute, and sell E Fuels. Good news for anyone with an ICE vehicle!

The U.K. is not expected to follow suit… where did you get that? The U.K. regs will say zero tailpipe emissions and were already stricter than the EUs