RE: Vote for the best saloon of the last 25 years!

[julian64]

E90_M3Ross said:

It was Portsmouth to just past Aviemore. It was fine. I left at around 4:30am on a Saturday. I was there at 1pm

That does sound a bit daft. Accidents happen to any type of driver however good. But if you find yourself unlucky enough to be facing a judge with someone's injury or death on your hands, and said you had been driving for nine hours with a 30 minute stop to fill up, how do you think the judge would comment on that?

[E90_M3Ross]

julian64 said:

E90_M3Ross said:

It was Portsmouth to just past Aviemore. It was fine. I left at around 4:30am on a Saturday. I was there at 1pm

That does sound a bit daft. Accidents happen to any type of driver however good. But if you find yourself unlucky enough to be facing a judge with someone's injury or death on your hands, and said you had been driving for nine hours with a 30 minute stop to fill up, how do you think the judge would comment on that?

I'm not sure, but I've done that trip numerous times before and seem to cope fine.

[Julian Scott]

E90_M3Ross said:

julian64 said:

E90_M3Ross said:

It was Portsmouth to just past Aviemore. It was fine. I left at around 4:30am on a Saturday. I was there at 1pm

That does sound a bit daft. Accidents happen to any type of driver however good. But if you find yourself unlucky enough to be facing a judge with someone's injury or death on your hands, and said you had been driving for nine hours with a 30 minute stop to fill up, how do you think the judge would comment on that?

I'm not sure, but I've done that trip numerous times before and seem to cope fine.

A true driving god. We salute you! Manual gearbox? Sub1000kg dry weight? NA engine?

[E90_M3Ross]

Julian Scott said:

E90_M3Ross said:

julian64 said:

E90_M3Ross said:

It was Portsmouth to just past Aviemore. It was fine. I left at around 4:30am on a Saturday. I was there at 1pm

That does sound a bit daft. Accidents happen to any type of driver however good. But if you find yourself unlucky enough to be facing a judge with someone's injury or death on your hands, and said you had been driving for nine hours with a 30 minute stop to fill up, how do you think the judge would comment on that?

I'm not sure, but I've done that trip numerous times before and seem to cope fine.

A true driving god. We salute you! Manual gearbox? Sub1000kg dry weight? NA engine?

Auto, 2 tonnes, NA 4.6L V8

Far from a driving god, but I arrived feeling fine.

[pgamble]

JJJ. said:

pgamble said:

When BMW first entered the UK they had no interest from customers. Some marketing guy said increase the prices by x% and people will think they are premium. It worked - people buy them like they buy iPhones and not because they are amazing cars in the main.

I'm not here to defend BMW nor have I owned one for many years but what you stated above is rubbish. I reckon you've just got a chip on your shoulder, bet you know it too.

I'll just take you up on one point. BMW's were always expensive in the U.K. from day one compared to any non German comparable car. In the main this was due higher labour costs and better build quality. Not forgetting the standard of engineering, R&D investment and a massive commitment to motorsports.
It's no wonder they sell and their market share keeps increasing.

Me,I wouldn't have a modern BMW in a million years but nothing got to do with your badly flawed logic.

Edited by JJJ. on Friday 31st March 22:12

Sorry, as should have been clear, there was supposed to be a little gentle banter going on. The bit at BMW increasing their prices in UK to stimulate market interest using reverse psychology is in fact true. There were a series of events / activities that happened around start started when Herbert Quandt took a controlling share of BMW in a drive to steer them from bankruptcy towards the end of the 50s and early 60s. Around this time, they launched their 'New Class cars' which is what underpinned where they are today and as part of that, they raised prices to try and alter the market's perception. In the UK, this happened in stages with existing cars having price hikes after launch. They had another stumble in circa 2000 when the Rover story brought them to their knees (the result being that they sold most of the acquired businesses except Mini. Because this was all so long ago, there is not much detail you can Google, but some of the above is evidenced in articles from the time that were scanned and even covered in overview in a Wiki. I am old enough to not only have family tell me about the events in the 60s but also lived through some of the stuff in the 70s-2000.

I don't hate BMW and I respect those that love them. My first new car was an E36 328i Sport (99 MY). I got that after selling my Supra Turbo and whilst it was reliable and surprising cheap to service, it was nothing like as fun to drive as the Supra, or the 406 3l Coupe after it, or the 2 ST220s I had. It did a job, but it wasn't (for me) a great drivers car. It didn't handle particularly well, the lovely straight six didn't sound great unless you were on a roundabout when it accelerated past, it also didn't deliver the resell value promised. Cosmetically, it was nice - I had the split rim BBS alloys, Avus Blue and light grey / white leather interior. What the ownership experience have me was a sense that you are buying a car with a fairly dull shape (yes, with some go fast bulges etc on newer ones) that may have had a bigger faster engine in the more expensive models - but it wasn't really sexy or exciting design.

The latter, for me, is what stops me considering them - I want a car that really looks the part with sounds that excite (not just loud) and handles well. For me, they don't.

Back to the 'banter' reference - if you look at the original post from me - I did make clear I was expecting some hopefully humorous reposte. I didn't really expect someone to suggest I was lying about the only thing I said that was factual and not subjective - but hey ho.

[petelong]

E90_M3Ross said:

It's explained in the article. I'm not sure I've seen a review saying the RS5 was as good to drive as the equivalent C63 or M3 though, so perhaps that's why?

Don’t believe all you read in reviews, they are only opinions. Having owned two C63’s one saloon, one estate, and an old M3 in the past, my current RS5 Sportback is a far better drive than both C63’s, way better performance, handling and tech, although the soundtrack of the C63 is definitely the best!

[Julian Scott]

petelong said:

E90_M3Ross said:

It's explained in the article. I'm not sure I've seen a review saying the RS5 was as good to drive as the equivalent C63 or M3 though, so perhaps that's why?

Don’t believe all you read in reviews, they are only opinions. Having owned two C63’s one saloon, one estate, and an old M3 in the past, my current RS5 Sportback is a far better drive than both C63’s, way better performance, handling and tech, although the soundtrack of the C63 is definitely the best!

Which gen C63s?

I test drove a C63S when I got my Quadrifoglio - it was possibly the biggest surprise how good the handling, steering and feel was compared to my experience of prior Mercs (I knew the performance and soundtrack would be unsurprisingly great).

In contrast, the RS5 Sportback was exactly as I expected, solid but dull to drive, and with underwhelming performance (as expected given it is 15% down on the Merc & Alfa).

Clearly, I chose the Alfa which was a different league in it's drive.