RE: Uncertainty over EU ICE ban resolved
Discussion
DriveSnowdonia said:
Nomme de Plum said:
Personally i think we should all eat less meat. I eat little meat these days.
Why is that then? And why is it that you feel that the rest ot us should eat less meat? It's not a good use of land either.
Having children is far more damaging to the environment than any personal car will ever be. World population has basically doubled in the past 40 years. That is unsustainable not ICE vehicles. (Not having a child equates to around 60 metric tonnes a year or the same as taking 13 cars off the road per year). It is hilarious that the ICE is at the forefront of making climate change better when population control is such a taboo subject. This whole renewable thing is just a ploy to wrestle control from those that have oil as the west are scared at the rise of Arab states.
Some of the 68 plate trucks in our yard have done close to a million kilometres in less than 5 years. The emissions on freight is off the charts for what is such a small pool compared to cars. Electrification of that is just impossible with today's technology or even the near future.
Some of the 68 plate trucks in our yard have done close to a million kilometres in less than 5 years. The emissions on freight is off the charts for what is such a small pool compared to cars. Electrification of that is just impossible with today's technology or even the near future.
And if we stopped wasting so much food, this could reduce our emissions just as much as swapping all the personal transport to electric.
It’s wise to reduce our emissions, but governments also need to tackle the big emitters rather than virtue signalling.
https://ourworldindata.org/emissions-by-sector
It’s wise to reduce our emissions, but governments also need to tackle the big emitters rather than virtue signalling.
https://ourworldindata.org/emissions-by-sector
Mr Fix It said:
And if we stopped wasting so much food, this could reduce our emissions just as much as swapping all the personal transport to electric.
It’s wise to reduce our emissions, but governments also need to tackle the big emitters rather than virtue signalling.
https://ourworldindata.org/emissions-by-sector
Well, you also need to factor in the reward ratio, cars are a low hanging fruit, they were always going to be high up the list.It’s wise to reduce our emissions, but governments also need to tackle the big emitters rather than virtue signalling.
https://ourworldindata.org/emissions-by-sector
I'm not sure where you got the equivalence between food wastage and electric transport but that sounds way off to me.
Nomme de Plum said:
blue al said:
Double that milage and we can have a conversation 
I'm not a boiler fixer, sales rep, HGV or delivery driver and prefer public transport as I could work while travelling. Driving is a waste of a life.In your case about 15 years behind a wheel.
Edited by Nomme de Plum on Tuesday 28th March 21:50
Nomme de Plum said:
DriveSnowdonia said:
Nomme de Plum said:
Personally i think we should all eat less meat. I eat little meat these days.
Why is that then? And why is it that you feel that the rest ot us should eat less meat? It's not a good use of land either.
Sugar probably contributes more to causing those diseases
DriveSnowdonia said:
So you say it is meat, a totally natural foodstuff eaten for millennia, that is causing the huge recent uptick in all of those serious medical problems you speak about, rather than our recent addiction to un-natural, heavily processed foods, sugars and corn/seed oils. Errrrrr, okay, sure if you say so.
I assume you therefore would also disagree with this guy who is a professional athlete, in great physical shape, who has reviewed extensively the latest scientific literature on the impacts of eating meat, both on the body and it's performance, the environment and our healthcare systems. He's also a qualified nutritionist by the way.
https://youtu.be/Ey93GV-oKQY
Still, good luck with your experiment. I won't be following you but I do hope it tastes good.
For balance, maybe watch The Game Changers. I assume you therefore would also disagree with this guy who is a professional athlete, in great physical shape, who has reviewed extensively the latest scientific literature on the impacts of eating meat, both on the body and it's performance, the environment and our healthcare systems. He's also a qualified nutritionist by the way.
https://youtu.be/Ey93GV-oKQY
Still, good luck with your experiment. I won't be following you but I do hope it tastes good.
Real world examples of extreme athletes and professional teams adopting plant-based diets to improve performance.
I'm an omnivore, but it's pretty hard to watch that and not come away with a better understanding of the inflammatory impact that eating meat has on the body.
These threads always seem to go to s
t very quickly. It's sad that people are so militant and quick to resort to attacking each other.
As for the actual topic, it's early days and far too soon to make any solid conclusions. The majority of cars will be EV, but this might at least mean we still get some interesting ICE models in the years ahead, and it sounds to me like there is some wriggle room in there, as they mentioned carbon neutral fuels, so I wouldn't be at all surprised if fudges are made to allow some kind of offsetting to cover the use of fossil fuels. And that's fine with me. If we get to a point where 80+% of new cars are EV, we've probably tackled the problem as much as is needed in terms of personal transport and we can then move our focus to other areas.
People are quick to dismiss carbon neutral fuel options as not being scalable, but it's early days. We keep getting told that big improvements are coming for batteries, so who knows what will happen, especially with the potential for fudges mentioned above.
I think the biggest question for most PHers is whether the UK follows suit and also allows ICE to continue. If we don't follow the EU, then it's all for nothing in our case.
t very quickly. It's sad that people are so militant and quick to resort to attacking each other.As for the actual topic, it's early days and far too soon to make any solid conclusions. The majority of cars will be EV, but this might at least mean we still get some interesting ICE models in the years ahead, and it sounds to me like there is some wriggle room in there, as they mentioned carbon neutral fuels, so I wouldn't be at all surprised if fudges are made to allow some kind of offsetting to cover the use of fossil fuels. And that's fine with me. If we get to a point where 80+% of new cars are EV, we've probably tackled the problem as much as is needed in terms of personal transport and we can then move our focus to other areas.
People are quick to dismiss carbon neutral fuel options as not being scalable, but it's early days. We keep getting told that big improvements are coming for batteries, so who knows what will happen, especially with the potential for fudges mentioned above.
I think the biggest question for most PHers is whether the UK follows suit and also allows ICE to continue. If we don't follow the EU, then it's all for nothing in our case.
GT9 said:
As promised:
Mercedes
“Step by step, we see the market turning. I really believe that in this decade, we will flip from being based upon high tech internal combustion engines to going dominant electric, if not all electric, in the luxury segment.
We’ve all realized that climate change is real, the CO2 problem needs to be solved. And where does that problem end? It ends on the desks of our engineers.
“We do it because we think it’s right. But we also do it because we think it’s going to be the better business. I don’t think there’s any question for a modern company, a forward-thinking modern company, that we need to decarbonize."
Audi
"Audi’s plan is to have more than 20 fully electric models in its portfolio by 2025. By as early as 2026, the only new models the brand with the four rings releases on the market will be fully electric. The company has made a clear commitment to electromobility in terms of investment planning as well. For instance, in the years 2022 to 2026, Audi intends to invest around 18 billion euros in electrification and hybridization, based on its planning round adopted at the end of 2021. With overall investments of around 37 billion euros, nearly half of the outlays will go to these future-oriented topics."
BMW
"Electric drivetrains are a prerequisite for climate-neutral mobility of the future. This is why the BMW Group is consistently expanding its range of electric vehicles. As early as 2023, the Group will offer at least one fully electric model in virtually all key segments. From 2025 onwards, the BMW Group plans to increase its delivery share of all-electric vehicles to 50% with the Neue Klasse, while also further reducing its carbon footprint over the entire life cycle. In doing so, it will utilize its experience as a pioneer of e-mobility."
VW
"Volkswagen is on its way to ZERO. In concrete terms, this means: the company has committed itself to the targets of the Paris Agreement and the EU’s European Green Deal. The long-term goal is to become completely carbon-neutral by 2050. This is a marathon that starts with a sprint: Volkswagen’s goal for 2030 is to reduce emissions per vehicle in Europe by 40 percent compared to 2018, which means that each Volkswagen vehicle will then emit 17 tonnes less CO2 on average throughout its life-cycle. Volkswagen is eager to make a substantial contribution to mitigating climate change and, at the same time, become the most coveted brand for sustainable mobility.Volkswagen is taking a holistic approach to decarbonisation, which is why its Way to ZERO goes beyond vehicle electrification to include the entire vehicle life-cycle. Between now and 2025 alone, the company will invest approximately €14 billion in decarbonisation measures that will focus on four central pillars. The first pillar is continuing the accelerated electrification of the product portfolio. The second pillar is decarbonising supply chains and production, the cause of half of an electric car’s total carbon emissions. The third pillar is the consistent use of green energy during the usage phase; this will address the remaining 50% of emissions. The fourth pillar is the recycling of batteries."
Porsche
"The electric drive is a double blessing. It will enable Porsche to meet more stringent consumption and emission standards in the future. At the same time, it significantly improves the performance of the vehicles. When it comes to electrification, the focus is on the contrasting pairs of ‘innovation and tradition’ and ‘performance and suitability’ for everyday use. With every new model generation, the sports car manufacturer once again demonstrates its outstanding engineering achievements. The company principle "Perform much, consume little" should be raised to the next level at every juncture."
FORD
"Our march toward an all-electric future is an absolute necessity for Ford to meet the mobility needs of customers across a transforming Europe,” said Stuart Rowley, chair, Ford of Europe. “It’s also about the pressing need for greater care of our planet, making a positive contribution to society and reducing emissions in line with the Paris Climate Agreement. Together, these efforts will support Ford’s global plans to significantly reduce carbon emissions. The company today announced it is targeting zero emissions for all vehicle sales in Europe and carbon neutrality across its European footprint of facilities, logistics and suppliers by 2035."
Ford to introduce three new electric passenger vehicles and four new electric commercial vehicles in Europe by 2024; plans to sell more than 600,000 electric vehicles in the region by 2026.
EV push in Europe supports the acceleration of the Ford+ plan, and global goal of 2 million+ annual production of EVs by 2026 and 10% company adjusted EBIT margin by 2026.
Planned production of electric vehicles in Cologne, Germany, now expected to be 1.2 million vehicles over six years, with a total product investment of $2 billion.
OPEL
"Opel is to become a purely electric car brand by 2028, as part of parent group Stellantis' drive towards sustainable mobility. The carmaker will switch its entire line-up to battery-electric vehicles (BEVs), with the 12 current variants to be joined by a new model based on the Opel Manta."
Rolls Royce
"After years of expectation and inquiry, CEO Torsten Müller- Ötvös stays true to his promise, confirming that Rolls-Royce will be fully electric by the end of this decade."
Bentley
"Bentley’s journey into an electric future continues. The introduction of hybrid technology is an important stage on that journey, with a range of hybrid vehicles now available. In the years ahead, Bentley will reveal its first fully electric vehicle, making the shift to an all-electric line-up by 2030."
Jaguar Land Rover
"Jaguar Land Rover announces a global upskilling drive, in a bid to train 29,000 people in the next three years for its connected and data capabilities, and to support the rapid transition to electrification. Our plans to electrify our product portfolio are running at pace, and we are rapidly scaling up our future skills training programme to ensure we have the right talent to deliver the world’s most desirable modern luxury electric vehicles."
MINI
"MINI will launch its last new model available with internal combustion engines in 2025, and that by 2027 it hopes that 50 per cent of all MINI sales are fully electric. By 2030, the brand's entire line-up will consist of battery-electric vehicles only."
Renault
"For the past decade, Renault Group has been fully committed to the development of large-scale electric mobility. A pioneer in Europe, today its strategy moves up another gear. The Renaulution plan, unveiled in January 2021, focuses on the group’s electric leadership and the unique advantages of its E-TECH, hybrid and plug-in hybrid technology. It aims to widen its electric mobility offer, both in terms of vehicles and services. The objective of Renault Group is simple: to make electric travel accessible to everyone by offering solutions to every need."
Peugeot
"PEUGEOT is on track to deliver bold targets for electrification:
? 2023: every model in the PEUGEOT line-up will be ELECTRIFIED
? 2025: PEUGEOT will have a 100% ELECTRIC OFFER
? 2030: 100% OF PEUGEOTs SOLD IN EUROPE WILL BE 100% ELECTRIC"
Citroen
"At Citroën, we believe electric cars and vans should be accessible to everyone. That's why we offer an affordable range of nine electric and hybrid models, from the Ami 100% electric up to the cavernous ë-Relay. Our fully electric range consists of the Ami, ë-C4, ë-Berlingo and ë-SpaceTourer, with the latter comfortably accommodating up to nine. If you are looking for a plug-in hybrid, choose from the New C5 Aircross and New C5 X Plug-in Hybrid models, each with an electric range of up to 34 miles perfectly suited for the majority of daily journeys. Our award-winning van range now offers the choice of electric across each model, including the newly introduced ë-Berlingo Van electric. Each electric van offers minimal compromise with identical load volumes to their petrol and diesel counterparts. That's why we like to say we have every kind of electric for all kinds of people - POWER TO THE PEOPLE."
SEAT
SEAT S.A and the Volkswagen Group are planning to invest more than €7 billion to electrify Spain.
This would be the single largest industrial investment in the country’s history.
It is called the ‘Future: Fast Forward’ programme and would include the installation of a new battery cell factory in Sagunto, Valencia, which will employ more than 3,000 people.
The two companies intend to formally submit an application to the PERTE programme so this is still subject to final approval.
The German automaker is aiming for an annual production capacity of 40GWh to begin in 2026. Construction of the new plant must therefore start by the end of this year.
President of SEAT S.A, Wayne Griffiths, said: “Future: Fast Forward has the potential to transform the Spanish automotive industry and democratise electric mobility across Europe.”
Volvo
"Volvo Cars is taking a bold lead with electrification in the auto industry. As the first major premium car brand to commit to a hybrid or full-electric powertrain for all our models, we aim to drive the automotive sector forward, improve the quality of the air in our cities and increase our success as a business. Every new Volvo car launched from 2019 onwards will have an electric motor. This ambitious commitment shows that at Volvo Cars we dare to take the lead and embrace a cleaner mobility. It underlines our aim to reduce the environmental impact of our products, and to improve air quality in our cities. Most of all, it shows that we listen to our customers and their needs."
SKODA
By 2030, we want to be one of the top five best-selling brands in Europe,” the ŠKODA CEO outlines the company’s ambitious plan. This is to be achieved by offering affordable models, such as the new ŠKODA FABIA, while expanding the range of electrified cars. “We will add at least three more fully electric models to our portfolio by 2030. Depending on how markets develop, our target is for fully electric ŠKODA models to account for roughly 50 to 70 per cent of sales in Europe for 2030,” Schäfer said. By fostering the development and production of electric vehicles and their components in the Czech Republic, the Czech carmaker will help the traditionally industrial country become an electromobility hub. According to Schäfer, electric cars or their components are to be manufactured at all ŠKODA plants in the Czech Republic.
ALFA ROMEO
Global automaker conglomerate Stellantis has begun its pivot to electrification for all 14 of its brands, and today it announced that Alfa Romeo will be the first of them to ditch the internal combustion engine. The launch of the new 2023 Alfa Romeo Tonale plug-in hybrid represents the first electrified model in what will be a 100-percent electric lineup by 2027.
It'll be followed by a "fully locked and funded product plan," Imparato told us, consisting of one new vehicle launch or big reveal per year by 2030. Following the all-electric Quadrifoglio in 2025, the company says that every new Alfa Romeo launched will be a fully electric vehicle. By 2027, the last internal combustion engine-powered Alfa Romeo will leave the lineup, making Alfa's EV-exclusive lineup the first (but not last) of Stellantis' 14 brands to be fully electrified.
FIAT
We can now provide all our customers with a sustainable mobility solution, whatever their mobility needs, with simple technology and at an affordable cost. I am extremely proud of this for its consistency with our vision: ‘It’s only green when it’s green for all’.
And there’s more. Our journey toward sustainable mobility for all continues, with the aim to launch a new vehicle every year, starting as soon as in 2023. Each model will have an electric motor, to achieve a fully electric line-up from 2027.
TVR
The brand’s new models will include an all-electric version of the new Griffith sports car, which will follow the V8 version into production in 2024. Following that, TVR intends to reveal two new cars. These are likely to be an all-electric saloon and an SUV if some teaser images of the new models are anything to go by. There’s also a sleek, electric sports car with a similar shape to the iconic Sagaris in the trio of teaser sketches, pointing to a bespoke electric sports car.
I said this when you posted this before, but I think I'd take this with a pinch of salt to be honest. Those statements were made when manufacturers thought a complete ICE ban was coming. Now it's not, I wouldn't be at all surprised if at least some of them change tact - especially those who make sports/super cars.Mercedes
“Step by step, we see the market turning. I really believe that in this decade, we will flip from being based upon high tech internal combustion engines to going dominant electric, if not all electric, in the luxury segment.
We’ve all realized that climate change is real, the CO2 problem needs to be solved. And where does that problem end? It ends on the desks of our engineers.
“We do it because we think it’s right. But we also do it because we think it’s going to be the better business. I don’t think there’s any question for a modern company, a forward-thinking modern company, that we need to decarbonize."
Audi
"Audi’s plan is to have more than 20 fully electric models in its portfolio by 2025. By as early as 2026, the only new models the brand with the four rings releases on the market will be fully electric. The company has made a clear commitment to electromobility in terms of investment planning as well. For instance, in the years 2022 to 2026, Audi intends to invest around 18 billion euros in electrification and hybridization, based on its planning round adopted at the end of 2021. With overall investments of around 37 billion euros, nearly half of the outlays will go to these future-oriented topics."
BMW
"Electric drivetrains are a prerequisite for climate-neutral mobility of the future. This is why the BMW Group is consistently expanding its range of electric vehicles. As early as 2023, the Group will offer at least one fully electric model in virtually all key segments. From 2025 onwards, the BMW Group plans to increase its delivery share of all-electric vehicles to 50% with the Neue Klasse, while also further reducing its carbon footprint over the entire life cycle. In doing so, it will utilize its experience as a pioneer of e-mobility."
VW
"Volkswagen is on its way to ZERO. In concrete terms, this means: the company has committed itself to the targets of the Paris Agreement and the EU’s European Green Deal. The long-term goal is to become completely carbon-neutral by 2050. This is a marathon that starts with a sprint: Volkswagen’s goal for 2030 is to reduce emissions per vehicle in Europe by 40 percent compared to 2018, which means that each Volkswagen vehicle will then emit 17 tonnes less CO2 on average throughout its life-cycle. Volkswagen is eager to make a substantial contribution to mitigating climate change and, at the same time, become the most coveted brand for sustainable mobility.Volkswagen is taking a holistic approach to decarbonisation, which is why its Way to ZERO goes beyond vehicle electrification to include the entire vehicle life-cycle. Between now and 2025 alone, the company will invest approximately €14 billion in decarbonisation measures that will focus on four central pillars. The first pillar is continuing the accelerated electrification of the product portfolio. The second pillar is decarbonising supply chains and production, the cause of half of an electric car’s total carbon emissions. The third pillar is the consistent use of green energy during the usage phase; this will address the remaining 50% of emissions. The fourth pillar is the recycling of batteries."
Porsche
"The electric drive is a double blessing. It will enable Porsche to meet more stringent consumption and emission standards in the future. At the same time, it significantly improves the performance of the vehicles. When it comes to electrification, the focus is on the contrasting pairs of ‘innovation and tradition’ and ‘performance and suitability’ for everyday use. With every new model generation, the sports car manufacturer once again demonstrates its outstanding engineering achievements. The company principle "Perform much, consume little" should be raised to the next level at every juncture."
FORD
"Our march toward an all-electric future is an absolute necessity for Ford to meet the mobility needs of customers across a transforming Europe,” said Stuart Rowley, chair, Ford of Europe. “It’s also about the pressing need for greater care of our planet, making a positive contribution to society and reducing emissions in line with the Paris Climate Agreement. Together, these efforts will support Ford’s global plans to significantly reduce carbon emissions. The company today announced it is targeting zero emissions for all vehicle sales in Europe and carbon neutrality across its European footprint of facilities, logistics and suppliers by 2035."
Ford to introduce three new electric passenger vehicles and four new electric commercial vehicles in Europe by 2024; plans to sell more than 600,000 electric vehicles in the region by 2026.
EV push in Europe supports the acceleration of the Ford+ plan, and global goal of 2 million+ annual production of EVs by 2026 and 10% company adjusted EBIT margin by 2026.
Planned production of electric vehicles in Cologne, Germany, now expected to be 1.2 million vehicles over six years, with a total product investment of $2 billion.
OPEL
"Opel is to become a purely electric car brand by 2028, as part of parent group Stellantis' drive towards sustainable mobility. The carmaker will switch its entire line-up to battery-electric vehicles (BEVs), with the 12 current variants to be joined by a new model based on the Opel Manta."
Rolls Royce
"After years of expectation and inquiry, CEO Torsten Müller- Ötvös stays true to his promise, confirming that Rolls-Royce will be fully electric by the end of this decade."
Bentley
"Bentley’s journey into an electric future continues. The introduction of hybrid technology is an important stage on that journey, with a range of hybrid vehicles now available. In the years ahead, Bentley will reveal its first fully electric vehicle, making the shift to an all-electric line-up by 2030."
Jaguar Land Rover
"Jaguar Land Rover announces a global upskilling drive, in a bid to train 29,000 people in the next three years for its connected and data capabilities, and to support the rapid transition to electrification. Our plans to electrify our product portfolio are running at pace, and we are rapidly scaling up our future skills training programme to ensure we have the right talent to deliver the world’s most desirable modern luxury electric vehicles."
MINI
"MINI will launch its last new model available with internal combustion engines in 2025, and that by 2027 it hopes that 50 per cent of all MINI sales are fully electric. By 2030, the brand's entire line-up will consist of battery-electric vehicles only."
Renault
"For the past decade, Renault Group has been fully committed to the development of large-scale electric mobility. A pioneer in Europe, today its strategy moves up another gear. The Renaulution plan, unveiled in January 2021, focuses on the group’s electric leadership and the unique advantages of its E-TECH, hybrid and plug-in hybrid technology. It aims to widen its electric mobility offer, both in terms of vehicles and services. The objective of Renault Group is simple: to make electric travel accessible to everyone by offering solutions to every need."
Peugeot
"PEUGEOT is on track to deliver bold targets for electrification:
? 2023: every model in the PEUGEOT line-up will be ELECTRIFIED
? 2025: PEUGEOT will have a 100% ELECTRIC OFFER
? 2030: 100% OF PEUGEOTs SOLD IN EUROPE WILL BE 100% ELECTRIC"
Citroen
"At Citroën, we believe electric cars and vans should be accessible to everyone. That's why we offer an affordable range of nine electric and hybrid models, from the Ami 100% electric up to the cavernous ë-Relay. Our fully electric range consists of the Ami, ë-C4, ë-Berlingo and ë-SpaceTourer, with the latter comfortably accommodating up to nine. If you are looking for a plug-in hybrid, choose from the New C5 Aircross and New C5 X Plug-in Hybrid models, each with an electric range of up to 34 miles perfectly suited for the majority of daily journeys. Our award-winning van range now offers the choice of electric across each model, including the newly introduced ë-Berlingo Van electric. Each electric van offers minimal compromise with identical load volumes to their petrol and diesel counterparts. That's why we like to say we have every kind of electric for all kinds of people - POWER TO THE PEOPLE."
SEAT
SEAT S.A and the Volkswagen Group are planning to invest more than €7 billion to electrify Spain.
This would be the single largest industrial investment in the country’s history.
It is called the ‘Future: Fast Forward’ programme and would include the installation of a new battery cell factory in Sagunto, Valencia, which will employ more than 3,000 people.
The two companies intend to formally submit an application to the PERTE programme so this is still subject to final approval.
The German automaker is aiming for an annual production capacity of 40GWh to begin in 2026. Construction of the new plant must therefore start by the end of this year.
President of SEAT S.A, Wayne Griffiths, said: “Future: Fast Forward has the potential to transform the Spanish automotive industry and democratise electric mobility across Europe.”
Volvo
"Volvo Cars is taking a bold lead with electrification in the auto industry. As the first major premium car brand to commit to a hybrid or full-electric powertrain for all our models, we aim to drive the automotive sector forward, improve the quality of the air in our cities and increase our success as a business. Every new Volvo car launched from 2019 onwards will have an electric motor. This ambitious commitment shows that at Volvo Cars we dare to take the lead and embrace a cleaner mobility. It underlines our aim to reduce the environmental impact of our products, and to improve air quality in our cities. Most of all, it shows that we listen to our customers and their needs."
SKODA
By 2030, we want to be one of the top five best-selling brands in Europe,” the ŠKODA CEO outlines the company’s ambitious plan. This is to be achieved by offering affordable models, such as the new ŠKODA FABIA, while expanding the range of electrified cars. “We will add at least three more fully electric models to our portfolio by 2030. Depending on how markets develop, our target is for fully electric ŠKODA models to account for roughly 50 to 70 per cent of sales in Europe for 2030,” Schäfer said. By fostering the development and production of electric vehicles and their components in the Czech Republic, the Czech carmaker will help the traditionally industrial country become an electromobility hub. According to Schäfer, electric cars or their components are to be manufactured at all ŠKODA plants in the Czech Republic.
ALFA ROMEO
Global automaker conglomerate Stellantis has begun its pivot to electrification for all 14 of its brands, and today it announced that Alfa Romeo will be the first of them to ditch the internal combustion engine. The launch of the new 2023 Alfa Romeo Tonale plug-in hybrid represents the first electrified model in what will be a 100-percent electric lineup by 2027.
It'll be followed by a "fully locked and funded product plan," Imparato told us, consisting of one new vehicle launch or big reveal per year by 2030. Following the all-electric Quadrifoglio in 2025, the company says that every new Alfa Romeo launched will be a fully electric vehicle. By 2027, the last internal combustion engine-powered Alfa Romeo will leave the lineup, making Alfa's EV-exclusive lineup the first (but not last) of Stellantis' 14 brands to be fully electrified.
FIAT
We can now provide all our customers with a sustainable mobility solution, whatever their mobility needs, with simple technology and at an affordable cost. I am extremely proud of this for its consistency with our vision: ‘It’s only green when it’s green for all’.
And there’s more. Our journey toward sustainable mobility for all continues, with the aim to launch a new vehicle every year, starting as soon as in 2023. Each model will have an electric motor, to achieve a fully electric line-up from 2027.
TVR
The brand’s new models will include an all-electric version of the new Griffith sports car, which will follow the V8 version into production in 2024. Following that, TVR intends to reveal two new cars. These are likely to be an all-electric saloon and an SUV if some teaser images of the new models are anything to go by. There’s also a sleek, electric sports car with a similar shape to the iconic Sagaris in the trio of teaser sketches, pointing to a bespoke electric sports car.
Edited by Jon_S_Rally on Wednesday 29th March 08:43
DriveSnowdonia said:
So you say it is meat, a totally natural foodstuff eaten for millennia, that is causing the huge recent uptick in all of those serious medical problems you speak about, rather than our recent addiction to un-natural, heavily processed foods, sugars and corn/seed oils. Errrrrr, okay, sure if you say so.
I assume you therefore would also disagree with this guy who is a professional athlete, in great physical shape, who has reviewed extensively the latest scientific literature on the impacts of eating meat, both on the body and it's performance, the environment and our healthcare systems. He's also a qualified nutritionist by the way.
https://youtu.be/Ey93GV-oKQY
Still, good luck with your experiment. I won't be following you but I do hope it tastes good.
It's not an experiment. I'm late sixties with resting heart rate around 50 and blood pressure that has little changed over 50 years. I am lucky I don't get ill and enjoy the sports/hobbies in which i participate.I assume you therefore would also disagree with this guy who is a professional athlete, in great physical shape, who has reviewed extensively the latest scientific literature on the impacts of eating meat, both on the body and it's performance, the environment and our healthcare systems. He's also a qualified nutritionist by the way.
https://youtu.be/Ey93GV-oKQY
Still, good luck with your experiment. I won't be following you but I do hope it tastes good.
We are omnivores not carnivores and the percentage of meat we now eat is naively higher than when we were hunter gatherers with a much more active lifestyle compared to the one we now have.
There is nothing natural about the domesticated animals we now eat. We have created them over centuries from the natural breeds.
When the majority medical consensus changes i will review the situation but i actually much prefer fish/shellfish anyway.
I've seen the impact on families when much younger person have health issues partly self induced by diet and lifestyle. I will trey not to to that to my family.
RSTurboPaul said:
Nomme de Plum said:
blue al said:
Double that milage and we can have a conversation
I'm not a boiler fixer, sales rep, HGV or delivery driver and prefer public transport as I could work while travelling. Driving is a waste of a life.In your case about 15 years behind a wheel.
Edited by Nomme de Plum on Tuesday 28th March 21:50
Nickbrapp said:
Don’t forget that the EU isn’t the whole world either. Developing counties, China, Japan, Australia etc aren’t banning ICE Just yet
Asia is aiming for a 2035 ban. China has a huge portion of new car sales that are electric. I visit Asia a lot and they are embracing electric at incredible levels. delta0 said:
Let’s face it this is to make some very high end cars with ICE. For everyone else it’s electric only.
Yes, anyone that thinks this is the saviour for ICE for the masses is badly mistaken. E-fuels will be a very niche market for the very wealthy, they will be expensive to buy, very expensive to fuel (just buying the stuff is unlikely to be straightforward) and tax will see to the rest of it. The UK may run ahead of the EU, but I doubt it. It certainly won’t be any later. Jon_S_Rally said:
I said this when you posted this before, but I think I'd take this with a pinch of salt to be honest. Those statements were made when manufacturers thought a complete ICE ban was coming. Now it's not, I wouldn't be at all surprised if at least some of them change tact - especially those who make sports/super cars.
Excellent, that's why I posted it, to prompt a discussion as to what we might expect this means for the average PHer. If it doesn't mean anything for us, what are we getting so animated about?
The only ones who seem to have left the door open are Mercedes, BMW, Porsche and maybe some of the other VW brands.
Ferrari, Lamborghini, Maserati are obvious candidates.
Audi, MINI, RR, Bentley, Alfa, Fiat, Vauxhall, Renault, Citroen, Peugeot, Volvo have all said 100% electric though.
Ford and JLR have been a bot coy but looked like they were saying all-electric.
I'm asking other for their opinions as to who will roll back and what brands/models of ICE cars will be sold?
MDMA . said:
Muzzer79 said:
Wab1974uk said:
Nomme de Plum said:
wildatheart said:
The sad part about this 'progress' is that when you follow the money, you soon realise that CO2 driven 'climate change' is one. giant. scam.
Do have some authoritive evidence to validate your assertion?
Wab1974 - I think that JFK was shot by aliens. There's lots of evidence out there, go and research it and you'll agree with me.
New UK subsidies to farms will pay them `NOT` to produce food. They are trying to create food shortages. But worry not. Bill Gates is heavily invested in lab produced meat. Tasty.
https://tvpworld.com/64801898/netherlands-to-buy-u...
df76 said:
delta0 said:
Let’s face it this is to make some very high end cars with ICE. For everyone else it’s electric only.
Yes, anyone that thinks this is the saviour for ICE for the masses is badly mistaken. E-fuels will be a very niche market for the very wealthy, they will be expensive to buy, very expensive to fuel (just buying the stuff is unlikely to be straightforward) and tax will see to the rest of it. The UK may run ahead of the EU, but I doubt it. It certainly won’t be any later. I do not see Mr & Mrs Average paying £4/l
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