RE: Jay Kay's BMW Z4M Coupe for sale
Discussion
Pereldh said:
Just pulling the pins at the strut towers is enough, -1.5deg camber w std suspension. Transforms the turn-in.
I did have -2 deg at the rear with could've led to my crash on Nordschleife a few weeks ago, not the mention the M-diff...
Thanks. Pulling those pins wouldn’t be a big job. I did have -2 deg at the rear with could've led to my crash on Nordschleife a few weeks ago, not the mention the M-diff...
Edited by Pereldh on Tuesday 12th September 13:16
Hope the crash wasn’t a bad one.
I was put off buying a Z4M for years by reports of poor handling, until I finally twigged that it's 3 guys on PH who have made a career out saying the exact same thing for hundreds, in fact probably thousands of posts.
(TBF about 98% of the forum is re-cycled these days. There's not much new to say about old cars really.)
Yes, the OEM setup isn't as good as it could be but a decent set of coilovers and a geo is all that is needed to sort the Z4M.
(TBF about 98% of the forum is re-cycled these days. There's not much new to say about old cars really.)
Yes, the OEM setup isn't as good as it could be but a decent set of coilovers and a geo is all that is needed to sort the Z4M.
plenty said:
I was put off buying a Z4M for years by reports of poor handling, until I finally twigged that it's 3 guys on PH who have made a career out saying the exact same thing for hundreds, in fact probably thousands of posts.
(TBF about 98% of the forum is re-cycled these days. There's not much new to say about old cars really.)
Yes, the OEM setup isn't as good as it could be but a decent set of coilovers and a geo is all that is needed to sort the Z4M.
The irony was that when I lived in Berkshire, it was the handling of a Z4M that I followed once in my Mondeo V6 Ghia X at the time that really made me want one. I was on my country road commute from Bucklebury to Reading, and I couldn't get anywhere near the Z4M in fairness. I was properly impressed. (TBF about 98% of the forum is re-cycled these days. There's not much new to say about old cars really.)
Yes, the OEM setup isn't as good as it could be but a decent set of coilovers and a geo is all that is needed to sort the Z4M.
Fast forward 3 years to when I actually bought one though, and the handling didn't live up to other cars I'd had sadly. In fairness to it the OEM Continental tyres were crap though and everyone says that too(the contis weren't very good on my E92 M3 either though).
So I'd imagine that with some decent modern tyres put on it(not Continentals because I personally think they are crap for a "so called" premium tyre and I personally much prefer Michelins), and some suspension work they can be turned into something far better I would think.
What also fascinated me was that the E92 M3 was only released a year after the Z4M, yet that was in a completely different league to the Z4M in terms of the way it handled and rode for me. The E92 M3 is still one of the best cars I've had chassis/ride/handling wise for sure. I'll quickly gloss over the brakes and the 1650kg weight(and the torque to weight ratio) of it though!
richhead said:
Met the guy quite a few times, always seemed ok, of course hes a showman, but out of the lime lite hes a different person, as are alot of celebs, also a massive petrol head. His music was ok, very much of the time, he hit the mark and did very well, fair play to him.
Wouldnt pay the premium just because he owned it before tho.
Like you say, a massive petrolhead, and famous for having some interesting cars - a black Enzo (subject of his black devil car song?), and a green La Ferrari spring to mind. Previously owned by him would be a nice talking point, or to have on the obligatory spec sheet at a show. They've sold about 35million albums worldwide, and still touring afaik, so definitely ok in some eyes. Wouldnt pay the premium just because he owned it before tho.
R6tty said:
I never understand: if you're buying it off a 'celeb' then maybe. 'Once owned by'. Mmm. Ok. Someone's going to quote the Lady Di XR3.
As above, bragging rights to say its been owned by someone famous. The Lady Di thing, that's a whole other level of madness, and the big money one was an RS Turbo.Billy_Whizzzz said:
“…specialists must have figured out how to dial down some of the car’s lunacy for a more M-like experience…”
Except they haven’t. Before anyone responds with how chucking a set of B6s and Eibachs on all of the BMW specialists including Kevin Bird concur that Thayer rubbish and can’t be made to handle or ride well on the road (and I don’t mean track like the post above) and no, this isn’t a case of manning up and growing a pair - this isn’t fun and wayward like other lairy rwd powerful cars but just plain rubbish.
Have you had one then? Except they haven’t. Before anyone responds with how chucking a set of B6s and Eibachs on all of the BMW specialists including Kevin Bird concur that Thayer rubbish and can’t be made to handle or ride well on the road (and I don’t mean track like the post above) and no, this isn’t a case of manning up and growing a pair - this isn’t fun and wayward like other lairy rwd powerful cars but just plain rubbish.
Thought not - they are full-on lairy RWD madness!
Konan said:
hunt123 said:
Jay Kay / Jamiroquai..i remember when they burst onto the music scene in the early 90's.
Singing the same three note melodies over barely distinguishable backing tracks for their entire career? They make Ed Sheeran look inventive.I'd largely ignored them and never heard him talk until a Top Gear appearance, at which point I thought 'oh, he's also a massive t
t to go with it'A few years ago I was filling up in the Esso station in Princes Risborough when an absolutely jaw dropping car pulled in - turns out it was a Maserati. Jay Kay jumped out and stuck a few litres in - I spoke to him at the till and he couldn't have been nicer - showed me all around the car and let me sit in it. I was amused by a piece of A4 paper on the passenger seat with a hand drawn picture of the dash with arrows indicating what all the buttons and lights were for.
He gunned it off the forecourt and it sounded amazing.
It was a very rare 1 of 6 Frua bodied 1955 Maserati A6G/54 with a 6cyl 2.0. It sold at auction for something like $1.5m a few years later.
Regardless I wouldn’t pay a premium for a car because of a famous owner.
[quote=cerb4.5lee
What also fascinated me was that the E92 M3 was only released a year after the Z4M, yet that was in a completely different league to the Z4M in terms of the way it handled and rode for me. The E92 M3 is still one of the best cars I've had chassis/ride/handling wise for sure. I'll quickly gloss over the brakes and the 1650kg weight(and the torque to weight ratio) of it though!
[/quote]
And the lack of mid-range grunt that you love!
What also fascinated me was that the E92 M3 was only released a year after the Z4M, yet that was in a completely different league to the Z4M in terms of the way it handled and rode for me. The E92 M3 is still one of the best cars I've had chassis/ride/handling wise for sure. I'll quickly gloss over the brakes and the 1650kg weight(and the torque to weight ratio) of it though!
[/quote]
And the lack of mid-range grunt that you love!
Mr Tidy said:
cerb4.5lee said:
What also fascinated me was that the E92 M3 was only released a year after the Z4M, yet that was in a completely different league to the Z4M in terms of the way it handled and rode for me. The E92 M3 is still one of the best cars I've had chassis/ride/handling wise for sure. I'll quickly gloss over the brakes and the 1650kg weight(and the torque to weight ratio) of it though!
And the lack of mid-range grunt that you love! 
cerb4.5lee said:
Mr Tidy said:
cerb4.5lee said:
What also fascinated me was that the E92 M3 was only released a year after the Z4M, yet that was in a completely different league to the Z4M in terms of the way it handled and rode for me. The E92 M3 is still one of the best cars I've had chassis/ride/handling wise for sure. I'll quickly gloss over the brakes and the 1650kg weight(and the torque to weight ratio) of it though!
And the lack of mid-range grunt that you love! Speaking of lack of grunt I can remember a couple of dalliances with other cars that showed the strengths and weaknesses of the M…a Scooby Imprezza which was amazing in the corners (no surprise there) but when it came to a junction it just gave up-being N/A the M can just put instant power down whereas the Scooby had to wait to spool up and lose precious seconds (I ran my dads old one for 6 months and they were just great at cornering and grip but plastic fantastic compared to others). Then I got humiliated by a B5 RS4 who taught me that big lesson on turbo vs N/A….he just floored it and took off down the road leaving me floundering in his wake. Probably laughing at me all the way.
Marcus-7tcc2 said:
Speaking of lack of grunt I can remember a couple of dalliances with other cars that showed the strengths and weaknesses of the M…a Scooby Imprezza which was amazing in the corners (no surprise there) but when it came to a junction it just gave up-being N/A the M can just put instant power down whereas the Scooby had to wait to spool up and lose precious seconds (I ran my dads old one for 6 months and they were just great at cornering and grip but plastic fantastic compared to others). Then I got humiliated by a B5 RS4 who taught me that big lesson on turbo vs N/A….he just floored it and took off down the road leaving me floundering in his wake. Probably laughing at me all the way.
I always found the opposite to that when I had the E92 M3, and when I came across stuff like 335ds and 640ds etc, they'd all leave me for dead initially in the M3. Once the M3 was right at the top of the revs I'd start catching up(and eventually overtaking if I was feeling daft enough). I remember having a right tussle with an X3 35d once and that got all a bit crazy in the end! But I do remember it fondly though. Plus I remember not being able to shake off a Megane RS once as well in it(the Megane had been tuned up though to be fair because I got chatting to the owner of it).
I do like the response of an NA engine don't get me wrong, but if I was in a situation where I could only have 1 car, I'd definitely always go for one with a turbo(or 2) on it now though.
cerb4.5lee said:
I always found the opposite to that when I had the E92 M3, and when I came across stuff like 335ds and 640ds etc, they'd all leave me for dead initially in the M3. Once the M3 was right at the top of the revs I'd start catching up(and eventually overtaking if I was feeling daft enough).
I remember having a right tussle with an X3 35d once and that got all a bit crazy in the end! But I do remember it fondly though. Plus I remember not being able to shake off a Megane RS once as well in it(the Megane had been tuned up though to be fair because I got chatting to the owner of it).
I do like the response of an NA engine don't get me wrong, but if I was in a situation where I could only have 1 car, I'd definitely always go for one with a turbo(or 2) on it now though.
There are a few people who have fitted superchargers to Z4Ms - solves any lag problems!I remember having a right tussle with an X3 35d once and that got all a bit crazy in the end! But I do remember it fondly though. Plus I remember not being able to shake off a Megane RS once as well in it(the Megane had been tuned up though to be fair because I got chatting to the owner of it).
I do like the response of an NA engine don't get me wrong, but if I was in a situation where I could only have 1 car, I'd definitely always go for one with a turbo(or 2) on it now though.
But I find keeping the M revving above 5,000 rpm works well enough - for now.
I had a little play with a V8 R8 on the M5 heading towards London and found there was very little between us at 'that's-a-bit-quick-for-the road' speeds. At 'that's-pretty-stupid-even-on-an-empty-motorway' speeds he left me for dead! I've since found in my own B7 RS4 that it's deep into triple figures where the extra 100hp makes a huge performance difference.
Back in about 2010, I had a good race in my Z4M against a well-driven 996 GT3 on a track day and found there was little between us, whilst a 997 GT3 left us both miles behind. Back then, before values really picked up, more Porsche GT products were driven hard on the track. Latterly, I only encounter 991 and 992 GT3s on the road or track, and they are in a different league.
I've also raced against an E46 M3 with a Stage I ESS supercharger on an airfield track day. In that environment, he couldn't exploit the extra power of his car on the fairly short straights and the superior handling of my Zed left him behind in the tight corners and hairpins. Eventually, high temperatures in his non-chargecooled supercharger resulted in reduced power and he went into the pits. The following lap, high temperatures in my non-chargecooled brain meant I ran out of concentration and span onto grass
Back in about 2010, I had a good race in my Z4M against a well-driven 996 GT3 on a track day and found there was little between us, whilst a 997 GT3 left us both miles behind. Back then, before values really picked up, more Porsche GT products were driven hard on the track. Latterly, I only encounter 991 and 992 GT3s on the road or track, and they are in a different league.
I've also raced against an E46 M3 with a Stage I ESS supercharger on an airfield track day. In that environment, he couldn't exploit the extra power of his car on the fairly short straights and the superior handling of my Zed left him behind in the tight corners and hairpins. Eventually, high temperatures in his non-chargecooled supercharger resulted in reduced power and he went into the pits. The following lap, high temperatures in my non-chargecooled brain meant I ran out of concentration and span onto grass
mat205125 said:
chirurgus said:
I’m not sure it’s “widely accepted” that the M3 is a “sweeter drive”. Rather, some prefer the more benign handling characteristics of a RWD car with a longer wheelbase.
The Z4M can be spikey at the limit - driven with a heavy right foot and a lack of experience, the Z4M is a terrifying handful, whereas the same abuse of an M3 results in a more gradual response. Driven well, those characteristics of the Z4M equate to a car that is composed, loves to change direction and is always exciting to drive at the limit. What’s more, in any circumstance, the Z4M feels special, whilst the M3 feels little different from any other six cylinder E46 unless pressing on.
In standard OEM spec, the Z4M is just a decent set of tyres away from being a great GT car and weekend toy. However, for the last fourteen years, my Z4M coupe has been a track car that also sees road use. As such, I have extensively modified it both to make it tolerate that use reliably and also to make it faster in that environment. The trade off for incredible track composure is a somewhat unforgiving ride on the road, but I wouldn’t have it any other way!
Any pics or more details on the mods?The Z4M can be spikey at the limit - driven with a heavy right foot and a lack of experience, the Z4M is a terrifying handful, whereas the same abuse of an M3 results in a more gradual response. Driven well, those characteristics of the Z4M equate to a car that is composed, loves to change direction and is always exciting to drive at the limit. What’s more, in any circumstance, the Z4M feels special, whilst the M3 feels little different from any other six cylinder E46 unless pressing on.
In standard OEM spec, the Z4M is just a decent set of tyres away from being a great GT car and weekend toy. However, for the last fourteen years, my Z4M coupe has been a track car that also sees road use. As such, I have extensively modified it both to make it tolerate that use reliably and also to make it faster in that environment. The trade off for incredible track composure is a somewhat unforgiving ride on the road, but I wouldn’t have it any other way!
Do you have a "readers car" thread running??
Suspension:
- KW Clubsport coil overs
- KW Camber / Castor plates
- H&R sway bars front and rear
- Adjustable drop links
- BMW front strut tower reinforcement plates
- BMW front strut tower brace
- Rogue Engineering rear top mounts
- Turner RTAB limiters
- Vibratech Competition engine mounts
- Corner-weighted with 80kg ballast, set for slight +ve rake
?
Brakes:
- AP Racing big brake kit front and rear with braided lines
- Front brake cooling ducts
- Motul RBF660 brake fluid
- ex-BTCC pads
Exhaust:
- Remus exhaust back boxes
Induction:
- GruppeM intake with RPI scoop
Bodywork:
- BMW Aeroskirts
- BMW gloss black kidney grills
- Front bumper RPI skid plates
Wheels and tyres:
- Rays Engineering Volk TE37s
- Nankang AR-1
Interior:
- Sparco carbon fibre seat
- Shortshifter (not fitted at present)
- ACS pedal covers with heel-and-toe extension
Also, I’ve removed the clutch delay value (pointless on the ///M, reportedly very useful on the other models); coded the ///M track mode found in the CSL; programmed out the emergency brake force assist. I think that’s it!
Thruxton:
Eastern Creek:
Eastern Creek:
Wakefield Park:
Edited by chirurgus on Sunday 17th September 07:48
Like his music or not, he seems to have a pretty sweet lifestyle, mostly funded by his own talents. I met some guys who worked at his house, they said he was a decent bloke, generous and friendly.
Aside from that, the beemer looks like quite an investment, I can’t imagine who would buy it for that kind of money…….
Aside from that, the beemer looks like quite an investment, I can’t imagine who would buy it for that kind of money…….
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