RE: New Toyota GR Yaris revealed with 280hp
Discussion
ecsrobin said:
So taking the RS2 as an example.
1,090,690 were produced of the Audi 80
2891 RS2’s produced
So 0.27% of all cars were RS2’s.
For Toyota:
Over 10,000,000 produced as of March 2023 (715,000 in the UK as of that date) and 300,000 annually produced just from the French factory so let’s call it
10,300,000 for the numbers here as we have the latest Yaris numbers.
32,000 GR Yaris ordered/produced to date.
So 0.25% of all cars are a GR Yaris.
So the Yaris is a rarer car when looking at both of them against their mainstream cars they were produced from.
My point is that in normal market conditions (not the artificially distorted easy finance market we have had recently), the GRY will depreciate like any other car. Rarity or not does not detract from this as the GRY is not a rare enough car that demand outstrips supply. You can see this by the number of GRY for sale, and how long some of those GRY for sale have remained on Autotrader. Using the price tracker tool shows that many have been discounted, sometimes multiple times during their time on sale. People are not exactly battering down the doors of the flippers attempting to sell them for £40k, since some of these flipper cars have been for sale for over 12 months now. 1,090,690 were produced of the Audi 80
2891 RS2’s produced
So 0.27% of all cars were RS2’s.
For Toyota:
Over 10,000,000 produced as of March 2023 (715,000 in the UK as of that date) and 300,000 annually produced just from the French factory so let’s call it
10,300,000 for the numbers here as we have the latest Yaris numbers.
32,000 GR Yaris ordered/produced to date.
So 0.25% of all cars are a GR Yaris.
So the Yaris is a rarer car when looking at both of them against their mainstream cars they were produced from.
Having missed out on the original production run, and not wanting to overpay, I've been keeping a close eye on the market, waiting until the point where very lightly used ones start appearing for around £25k. We are nearly there I think.
Failing that, then a new one, preferably in the lovely grey colour will be my default. No point in paying £30-35k for last years model when a new and improved one with a full warranty is only marginally more.
Edited by anonymous-user on Tuesday 16th January 11:22
D.S. said:
My point is that in normal market conditions (not the artificially distorted market we have had recently), the GRY will depreciate like any other car. Rarity or not does not detract from this as it is not a rare enough car that demand outstrips supply. You can see this by the number of, and how long some have remained on Autotrader. People are not exactly battering down the doors of the flippers attempting to sell them for £40k, since some of these cars have been for sale for over 12 months now.
Having missed out on the original production, and not wanting to overpay, I've been keeping a close eye on the market, waiting until the point where lightly used ones start appearing for around £25k. We are nearly there. Failing that, then a new one, preferably in grey will be my default. No point paying £30-35k for last year model when a new and better one is only marginally more.
Ah sorry your original post just said it isn’t a rare car anymore. LHaving missed out on the original production, and not wanting to overpay, I've been keeping a close eye on the market, waiting until the point where lightly used ones start appearing for around £25k. We are nearly there. Failing that, then a new one, preferably in grey will be my default. No point paying £30-35k for last year model when a new and better one is only marginally more.
I agree no car really escapes depreciation. I think the problem in the UK with the Yaris is the owners seem to be those who missed out on delta’s and evo’s and have seen how they have risen so assume it will happen to the Yaris and rather than driving them and enjoying them they sit in a garage doing nothing but putting up adverts in the hope they can tell their friends they made money on a car.
BIRMA said:
One other thing the GR Yaris has in it's favour is the high seating position it enables a far better view of what's ahead, I did own a modified VX220 Turbo but because you sat so low the same roads weren't quite as enjoyable.
I also found the same going from my mx5 to my JCW (which, granted, probably isn't as perched as the GR), although most people seem to want the car and driving position to be as low as possible, I find it a bit of an advantage being slightly higher up if anything. It's also easier to overtake, as you can more often see past the car you're trying to overtake. I'm not convinced that for road driving that being higher up is the disadvantage some people think it is. That's even before we get on to having more suspension travel; I'm sure my car would look good lowered but it would immediately be compromising it for road use. For a track car that'd be different but most of these are probably bought for road use I'm guessing.
ecsrobin said:
Ah sorry your original post just said it isn’t a rare car anymore. L
I agree no car really escapes depreciation. I think the problem in the UK with the Yaris is the owners seem to be those who missed out on delta’s and evo’s and have seen how they have risen so assume it will happen to the Yaris and rather than driving them and enjoying them they sit in a garage doing nothing but putting up adverts in the hope they can tell their friends they made money on a car.
Deltas and Evo's depreciated from new to practically bargain prices before they became a modern classic and started depreciating again. I know someone who paid £5k for a Delta Evo many years back. £5k, let that sink in considering what they costs these days.I agree no car really escapes depreciation. I think the problem in the UK with the Yaris is the owners seem to be those who missed out on delta’s and evo’s and have seen how they have risen so assume it will happen to the Yaris and rather than driving them and enjoying them they sit in a garage doing nothing but putting up adverts in the hope they can tell their friends they made money on a car.
Apart from at the ultra high end, not many people make money on cars since any appreciation is normally dwarfed by the maintenance/insurance/storage costs. At best you might be able to say you had cheap or zero cost motoring. Cars are certainly not a good investment by most metrics.
And the problem with the GRY is that it is quite a space compromised car as a daily driver. And anyone with money considering one of these has a multitude of cars they can choose from at the same or greater price points.
My dilemma when I get one will be having to sell a Lotus Elise to make room for it. Up until now the Elise has won, but there will come a point when the lure of switching it for something new becomes inevitable. Same with many I suspect who already own a GRY. Most of us I am guessing are not specifically Toyota GR fans, but rather we take interest in a whole range of different and interesting cars. For myself when I come to sell the Elise, it will be between buying a GRY or a 997 Turbo, or possibly an Alpine. All very different cars, but all equally as desirable to me.
D.S. said:
Deltas and Evo's depreciated from new to practically bargain prices before they became a modern classic and started depreciating again. I know someone who paid £5k for a Delta Evo many years back. £5k, let that sink in considering what they costs these days.
Apart from at the ultra high end, not many people make money on cars since any appreciation is normally dwarfed by the maintenance/insurance/storage costs. At best you might be able to say you had cheap or zero cost motoring. Cars are certainly not a good investment by most metrics.
And the problem with the GRY is that it is quite a space compromised car as a daily driver. And anyone with money considering one of these has a multitude of cars they can choose from at the same or greater price points.
My dilemma when I get one will be having to sell a Lotus Elise to make room for it. Up until now the Elise has won, but there will come a point when the lure of switching it for something new becomes inevitable. Same with many I suspect who already own a GRY. Most of us I am guessing are not specifically Toyota GR fans, but rather we take interest in a whole range of different and interesting cars. For myself when I come to sell the Elise, it will be between buying a GRY or a 997 Turbo, or possibly an Alpine. All very different cars, but all equally as desirable to me.
Mines a daily driver but there’s 2 of us so makes sense as we can just drop the seats. Apart from at the ultra high end, not many people make money on cars since any appreciation is normally dwarfed by the maintenance/insurance/storage costs. At best you might be able to say you had cheap or zero cost motoring. Cars are certainly not a good investment by most metrics.
And the problem with the GRY is that it is quite a space compromised car as a daily driver. And anyone with money considering one of these has a multitude of cars they can choose from at the same or greater price points.
My dilemma when I get one will be having to sell a Lotus Elise to make room for it. Up until now the Elise has won, but there will come a point when the lure of switching it for something new becomes inevitable. Same with many I suspect who already own a GRY. Most of us I am guessing are not specifically Toyota GR fans, but rather we take interest in a whole range of different and interesting cars. For myself when I come to sell the Elise, it will be between buying a GRY or a 997 Turbo, or possibly an Alpine. All very different cars, but all equally as desirable to me.
I always said I’d quite like to switch from the Yaris to an Alpine this year but with the new auto model announced I’m a bit torn.
ecsrobin said:
Mines a daily driver but there’s 2 of us so makes sense as we can just drop the seats.
I always said I’d quite like to switch from the Yaris to an Alpine this year but with the new auto model announced I’m a bit torn.
It's a nice choice to have for sure and think you would be very happy with either.I always said I’d quite like to switch from the Yaris to an Alpine this year but with the new auto model announced I’m a bit torn.
TameRacingDriver said:
BIRMA said:
One other thing the GR Yaris has in it's favour is the high seating position it enables a far better view of what's ahead, I did own a modified VX220 Turbo but because you sat so low the same roads weren't quite as enjoyable.
I also found the same going from my mx5 to my JCW (which, granted, probably isn't as perched as the GR), although most people seem to want the car and driving position to be as low as possible, I find it a bit of an advantage being slightly higher up if anything. It's also easier to overtake, as you can more often see past the car you're trying to overtake. I'm not convinced that for road driving that being higher up is the disadvantage some people think it is. That's even before we get on to having more suspension travel; I'm sure my car would look good lowered but it would immediately be compromising it for road use. For a track car that'd be different but most of these are probably bought for road use I'm guessing.
Nurburgsingh said:
TameRacingDriver said:
BIRMA said:
One other thing the GR Yaris has in it's favour is the high seating position it enables a far better view of what's ahead, I did own a modified VX220 Turbo but because you sat so low the same roads weren't quite as enjoyable.
I also found the same going from my mx5 to my JCW (which, granted, probably isn't as perched as the GR), although most people seem to want the car and driving position to be as low as possible, I find it a bit of an advantage being slightly higher up if anything. It's also easier to overtake, as you can more often see past the car you're trying to overtake. I'm not convinced that for road driving that being higher up is the disadvantage some people think it is. That's even before we get on to having more suspension travel; I'm sure my car would look good lowered but it would immediately be compromising it for road use. For a track car that'd be different but most of these are probably bought for road use I'm guessing.
British Beef said:
Phil. said:
cerb4.5lee said:
I'm too much of an engine snob to consider a 3 cylinder engined car, and the engine just doesn't get my juices flowing enough to buy one of these. I'm just too old fashioned I reckon.
You still haven’t driven a GR have you 
It’s a brilliant engine with loads of torque. I’m nearly 60 and have owned more V8’s that I can count on two hands including a couple of remapped, decatted Cerb’s.
In terms of noise, granted a 3 cylinder will never sound like a 6 or an 8, but it has a more interesting noise than most 4s.
I've only driven crap 3 cylinder engines up to yet in fairness. The B38 3 cylinder 1.5 in a Mini Clubman/BMW X2 and a BMW 118i, plus a 3 cylinder 900cc(ish) jobby in a little Renault. Those lot haven't given me much confidence in 3 cylinder engines at all in all honesty.
I'm properly critical of engines though, and I generally tend to hear/feel everything with them, and even the S55 engine(3.0 straight 6 twin turbo) in the M4 sounds like a sack of crap at idle for example for me(it does offer good performance regardless though I reckon).
ecsrobin said:
Quite the opposite. What don’t you like about your seating position? As above the height gives great visibility.
We all have different seating positions. Just wished the seat went lower. It was the same with the 1.8 GRMN Yaris. Great seats but wanted them to go lower. Look forward to the new one but the ordering process will be interesting. Wonder if it’s a lottery system or for people who missed out on the mk1 get first
ecsrobin said:
GRMN27 said:
No. The driving position is sh@t in the gr Yaris. I’m glad Toyota listened to the feedback and lowered it.
MK2 looks great with all the upgrades
No the driving position is fine. 30,000 miles and I wouldn’t change it for B road driving. MK2 looks great with all the upgrades
TameRacingDriver said:
cerb4.5lee said:
I've only driven crap 3 cylinder engines up to yet in fairness. The B38 3 cylinder 1.5 in a Mini Clubman/BMW X2 and a BMW 118i
That's a shame as I think my Mrs is after a b38 engine F56 Cooper. I always thought they were supposed to be decent.I am properly anal about engines though, and I think that I probably listen out for stuff a lot more than most. Plus I think the B38 engine will be under a lot less strain in the Cooper, because it is a much lighter car than the ones I've driven. So I presume that it will sound a lot less thrashy/rough in that in fairness.
The B38 isn't awful at a cruise at really low revs, however once you start to use the revs it sounds like a bag of spanners to my ears in the cars I've driven with it in.
I presume the 3 cylinder engine in the GR Yaris is masked a bit in that regard(and from what I'm told it isnt rough anyway), because of the piped in cabin noise. So that disguises some of the harshness that I've heard with the 3 cylinder engines I've used. On videos the piped in cabin noise does sound quite prominent in the GR Yaris to me.
cerb4.5lee said:
Same TRD, and I've read that too a few times about the F56 Cooper, and a lot of reviews say that it is the sweetspot of the Mini range.
I am properly anal about engines though, and I think that I probably listen out for stuff a lot more than most. Plus I think the B38 engine will be under a lot less strain in the Cooper, because it is a much lighter car than the ones I've driven. So I presume that it will sound a lot less thrashy/rough in that in fairness.
The B38 isn't awful at a cruise at really low revs, however once you start to use the revs it sounds like a bag of spanners to my ears in the cars I've driven with it in.
I presume the 3 cylinder engine in the GR Yaris is masked a bit in that regard(and from what I'm told it isnt rough anyway), because of the piped in cabin noise. So that disguises some of the harshness that I've heard with the 3 cylinder engines I've used. On videos the piped in cabin noise does sound quite prominent in the GR Yaris to me.
Interesting stuff, chaps. I am properly anal about engines though, and I think that I probably listen out for stuff a lot more than most. Plus I think the B38 engine will be under a lot less strain in the Cooper, because it is a much lighter car than the ones I've driven. So I presume that it will sound a lot less thrashy/rough in that in fairness.
The B38 isn't awful at a cruise at really low revs, however once you start to use the revs it sounds like a bag of spanners to my ears in the cars I've driven with it in.
I presume the 3 cylinder engine in the GR Yaris is masked a bit in that regard(and from what I'm told it isnt rough anyway), because of the piped in cabin noise. So that disguises some of the harshness that I've heard with the 3 cylinder engines I've used. On videos the piped in cabin noise does sound quite prominent in the GR Yaris to me.
My M2 was recently in for a service and my loaner was a new BMW 118i that had the 1.5 3 cylinder.
I absolutely loved it. The engine was quick enough (140bhp), the ZF auto was superb and it would do 50mpg everywhere.
My M2 is back now, and I still miss the little 1 Series. I'm holding off from test-driving one, as I would be very tempted to PX the M2.
God, I'm so boring these days
VeeFource said:
Whaaat. How does that make any sense? Do the Aussies manage to out-whine us when the poor things are down into the teens outside?
I can confirm it does get a little chilly on a July morning when taking the labradoodle out for a walk around Double Bay - makes sense they get the heated seats... Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff