RE: UK (finally) registers millionth electric vehicle

[cerb4.5lee]

Nomme de Plum said:

cerb4.5lee said:

fttm canada said:

Oh dear , just had to check this wasn't NP&E , few of you weirdos need to cool off a tad . Anyhow , it's akin to the mid 90s when everyman and his wife desperate to buy a DERV because the taxman said so , how many of you fell for that trick back then ? Now like lambs to the slaughter EVs are the must have , how long before they're finally crapped out as a waist of time and energy ?
Stick with my 2 V8s thanks , cheap and bullet proof .

This worries me as well, and it wouldn't surprise me if there isn't some backtracking on EVs like there was with diesel in the future too.

It all just boils down to trying to control the masses I reckon

Please tell us that's tongue in cheek and that you really don't believe that drivel.

That is exactly what it is for me. You're not daft either as far as I can tell, so surely you can see it too?

[Nomme de Plum]

cerb4.5lee said:

Nomme de Plum said:

cerb4.5lee said:

fttm canada said:

Oh dear , just had to check this wasn't NP&E , few of you weirdos need to cool off a tad . Anyhow , it's akin to the mid 90s when everyman and his wife desperate to buy a DERV because the taxman said so , how many of you fell for that trick back then ? Now like lambs to the slaughter EVs are the must have , how long before they're finally crapped out as a waist of time and energy ?
Stick with my 2 V8s thanks , cheap and bullet proof .

This worries me as well, and it wouldn't surprise me if there isn't some backtracking on EVs like there was with diesel in the future too.

It all just boils down to trying to control the masses I reckon

Please tell us that's tongue in cheek and that you really don't believe that drivel.

That is exactly what it is for me. You're not daft either as far as I can tell, so surely you can see it too?

I can see that scientific research has linked car exhaust emissions with some unpleasant health impacts and listening to one such person explaining how the brains of young children are reduced from normal the development path when exposed to these emissions then to me it would be utterly irresponsible not to take action whilst simultaneously not ceasing research in other areas.

To say this some kind of conspiratorial control mechanism is quite ridiculous.

Do you consider that the smoking prevention in public locations was all for nothing?

How about you find someone suitably qualified that can actually explain it to you. Surely that is what anyone should do when an issue is beyond their normal learning.

[D4rez]

cerb4.5lee said:

Nomme de Plum said:

cerb4.5lee said:

fttm canada said:

Oh dear , just had to check this wasn't NP&E , few of you weirdos need to cool off a tad . Anyhow , it's akin to the mid 90s when everyman and his wife desperate to buy a DERV because the taxman said so , how many of you fell for that trick back then ? Now like lambs to the slaughter EVs are the must have , how long before they're finally crapped out as a waist of time and energy ?
Stick with my 2 V8s thanks , cheap and bullet proof .

This worries me as well, and it wouldn't surprise me if there isn't some backtracking on EVs like there was with diesel in the future too.

It all just boils down to trying to control the masses I reckon

Please tell us that's tongue in cheek and that you really don't believe that drivel.

That is exactly what it is for me. You're not daft either as far as I can tell, so surely you can see it too?

I mean, cmon - what exactly is the control they’re trying to exercise? Nobody is talking about an end to private car ownership.. this is a really small change in the grand scheme of things

[GT9]

cerb4.5lee said:

It all just boils down to trying to control the masses I reckon.

Slippery slope Lee, I'd be disappointed to see you go down the CT rabbit hole.

[cerb4.5lee]

GT9 said:

cerb4.5lee said:

It all just boils down to trying to control the masses I reckon.

Slippery slope Lee, I'd be disappointed to see you go down the CT rabbit hole.

Yes, and I just get frustrated with the whole "diesel is great debacle", and then " electric is great too" that's all.

[Calite]

Mafioso said:

Surely nobody in their right mind actually buys an EV? I assume most on the road are fleet vehicles or leased?

I mean, the fact they absolutely tank in value on the used market when conventional ICE/hybrids are relatively strong indicates this. For most motorists they really aren't great &, as several manufacturers are now predicting, we will likely hit a ceiling of adoption (iirc both Toyota & less vocally BMW have predicted this at about 30%).

[plfrench]

Calite said:

I mean, the fact they absolutely tank in value on the used market when conventional ICE/hybrids are relatively strong indicates this. For most motorists they really aren't great &, as several manufacturers are now predicting, we will likely hit a ceiling of adoption (iirc both Toyota & less vocally BMW have predicted this at about 30%).

You better let BMW’s CFO know that he’s got it completely wrong - he’s saying 33% by ‘26 for them

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportat...

Edited by plfrench on Saturday 10th February 19:04

[ITP]

D4rez said:

cerb4.5lee said:

Nomme de Plum said:

cerb4.5lee said:

fttm canada said:

Oh dear , just had to check this wasn't NP&E , few of you weirdos need to cool off a tad . Anyhow , it's akin to the mid 90s when everyman and his wife desperate to buy a DERV because the taxman said so , how many of you fell for that trick back then ? Now like lambs to the slaughter EVs are the must have , how long before they're finally crapped out as a waist of time and energy ?
Stick with my 2 V8s thanks , cheap and bullet proof .

This worries me as well, and it wouldn't surprise me if there isn't some backtracking on EVs like there was with diesel in the future too.

It all just boils down to trying to control the masses I reckon

Please tell us that's tongue in cheek and that you really don't believe that drivel.

That is exactly what it is for me. You're not daft either as far as I can tell, so surely you can see it too?

I mean, cmon - what exactly is the control they’re trying to exercise? Nobody is talking about an end to private car ownership.. this is a really small change in the grand scheme of things

At the risk of being labelled a ‘CT’, sadly there are political loons suggesting this very thing. I’m just posting C40 cities official published info, endorsed by WEF (ie most governments…), but it’s obviously a conspiracy just to mention it. Nothing to see here!

[ZX10R NIN]

cerb4.5lee said:

GT9 said:

cerb4.5lee said:

It all just boils down to trying to control the masses I reckon.

Slippery slope Lee, I'd be disappointed to see you go down the CT rabbit hole.

Yes, and I just get frustrated with the whole "diesel is great debacle", and then " electric is great too" that's all.

What everyone has to remember is that diesels are great if they suit your usage.

Petrols is great if they suit your usage.

Electric is great if it suits your usage.

Petrol/diesel hybrids are great as long as they suit your usage,

Now if any of those that don't suit your usage then they're st & no one else should want them!!!



In all seriousness people need to remember to buy what suits their needs & not worry about anyone else.

[James6112]

A lot of conspiracy theory material on here!
From the usual oddballs (no offence)

[irc]

Nomme de Plum said:

I can see that scientific research has linked car exhaust emissions with some unpleasant health impacts

On the other hand

"There are huge uncertainties surrounding all the measures of impacts of air pollution, with inadequate knowledge replaced by substantial doses of expert judgement. These uncertainties should be better reflected in the public debates."

"the situation in the UK is not what we would usually think of as a ‘crisis’. It can still be good to seek improvements in air quality, but only provided these are based on a careful analysis of the costs per life-year saved."

https://medium.com/wintoncentre/does-air-pollution...

[Zero Fuchs]

Jesus wept.

[Lee chezz]

one big issue everyone seams to be missing hear, second hand values no one want them !!! my Porsche Tycan i paid £120,000.00 36 months ago
now worth £45 to £50K !! fantastic, and why should the government half the VAT !! what a ridiculous idea why not reduce the vat on all other cars !!
i was just wondering the other day how much fuel could i have purchased for my £75k loss, quite a bit !
that all said the Tycan is a fantastic car that i will be keeping as it is a great all rounder and not worth selling, i do believe that electric cars are 100% not the way forward it is impossible for a massive amount of the population to even contemplate, how do people living in terraced homes charge there cars on a evening cables trailing across the pavements, the power stations could not supply ( how many more would need building) there is not enough lithium on the planet to build the batteries that would be required !! major issue, the amount of pollution the extra power stations would pour out for the chargers would be
100% counter productive,

synthetic fuels are none polluting, these are now been perfected and in a few years will be good to go, we can all use our existing cars with none of the nightmare associated with electric, !!!

hear we have the doo gooder's idea's been forced on to the public, with no substance to back up there crazy ideologies again !!!

[fatjon]

Mafioso said:

Surely nobody in their right mind actually buys an EV? I assume most on the road are fleet vehicles or leased?

I bought 3. Why would I want to rent my car?

[Nomme de Plum]

Lee chezz said:

one big issue everyone seams to be missing hear, second hand values no one want them !!! my Porsche Tycan i paid £120,000.00 36 months ago
now worth £45 to £50K !! fantastic, and why should the government half the VAT !! what a ridiculous idea why not reduce the vat on all other cars !!
i was just wondering the other day how much fuel could i have purchased for my £75k loss, quite a bit !
that all said the Tycan is a fantastic car that i will be keeping as it is a great all rounder and not worth selling, i do believe that electric cars are 100% not the way forward it is impossible for a massive amount of the population to even contemplate, how do people living in terraced homes charge there cars on a evening cables trailing across the pavements, the power stations could not supply ( how many more would need building) there is not enough lithium on the planet to build the batteries that would be required !! major issue, the amount of pollution the extra power stations would pour out for the chargers would be
100% counter productive,

synthetic fuels are none polluting, these are now been perfected and in a few years will be good to go, we can all use our existing cars with none of the nightmare associated with electric, !!!

hear we have the doo gooder's idea's been forced on to the public, with no substance to back up there crazy ideologies again !!!

Depreciation is only realised when you sell the car. The market will determine the price when that time comes. It seems youmbought a new car when prices were absolutely at a premium due to short supply right in the middle of Covid.

I hope you didn't use WBAC for your valuation.

BTW it's a Taycan. As an owner should you not know this?


Synthetic fuel are going nowhere for public personal transport use. The detailed technicalities have been explained by people in the automotive industry here across many pages. Perhaps you should read them.

Just spotted your nonsense about the need for more power stations.

It has made me wonder if you really do have one.

Edited by Nomme de Plum on Monday 15th April 18:58

[Nomme de Plum]

irc said:

Nomme de Plum said:

I can see that scientific research has linked car exhaust emissions with some unpleasant health impacts

On the other hand

"There are huge uncertainties surrounding all the measures of impacts of air pollution, with inadequate knowledge replaced by substantial doses of expert judgement. These uncertainties should be better reflected in the public debates."

"the situation in the UK is not what we would usually think of as a ‘crisis’. It can still be good to seek improvements in air quality, but only provided these are based on a careful analysis of the costs per life-year saved."

https://medium.com/wintoncentre/does-air-pollution...

It is not just an issue of life saved. There is evidence that Nox emission damage young children's brain development. Surely we cannot continue to use something that knowingly does this. This particularly problematic for inner city schools.

[Bobtherallyfan]

Nomme de Plum said:

It is not just an issue of life saved. There is evidence that Nox emission damage young children's brain development. Surely we cannot continue to use something that knowingly does this. This particularly problematic for inner city schools.

And yet, paradoxically, as emissions fall the UK’s intellectual capacity seems be going in reverse.

[GT9]

Lee chezz said:

synthetic fuels are none polluting, these are now been perfected and in a few years will be good to go, we can all use our existing cars with none of the nightmare associated with electric, !!!

E-fuel still produces NOx so none-polluting is incorrect.
The carbon neutrality is only valid if the infrastructure already exists.
Which it doesn't...
E-fuel is an extremely inefficient way to use renewable electricity, about 90% of the starting electricity is lost to waste heat before it does anything useful.
Meaning that each e-fuelled car would be using the same amount of electricity that 6 or 7 EVs could use.
It also means it will cost an enormous amount per car to build and commission the infrastructure, something north of £50k per car.

The timeline (and carbon neutrality) for manufacturing such a gargantuan amount of wind turbines, electrolysis, carbon capture and synthesis plant is far too long to make any contribution to fuelling existing ICEs, other than maybe about 1% or 2% of them by 2035.

E-fuels can't contribute to passenger car decarbonisation in a timeframe that makes any different to 2050 or existing cars.

Far better to save what e-fuel might exist before 2050 for harder to decarbonise applications in other sectors where the total demand for fuel is much lower and/or low mileage special cars.

We get through 30 billion litres of fuel in our cars each year in the UK.

What you've read about from Porsche etc, won't scratch the surface of that.

Edited by GT9 on Monday 15th April 19:54

[GT9]

Bobtherallyfan said:

And yet, paradoxically, as emissions fall the UK’s intellectual capacity seems be going in reverse.

Do you mean the children of today or adults who were breathing the stuff when they were children and when the emission levels were higher....

[J4CKO]

Lee chezz said:

one big issue everyone seams to be missing hear, second hand values no one want them !!! my Porsche Tycan i paid £120,000.00 36 months ago
now worth £45 to £50K !! fantastic, and why should the government half the VAT !! what a ridiculous idea why not reduce the vat on all other cars !!
i was just wondering the other day how much fuel could i have purchased for my £75k loss, quite a bit !
that all said the Tycan is a fantastic car that i will be keeping as it is a great all rounder and not worth selling, i do believe that electric cars are 100% not the way forward it is impossible for a massive amount of the population to even contemplate, how do people living in terraced homes charge there cars on a evening cables trailing across the pavements, the power stations could not supply ( how many more would need building) there is not enough lithium on the planet to build the batteries that would be required !! major issue, the amount of pollution the extra power stations would pour out for the chargers would be
100% counter productive,

synthetic fuels are none polluting, these are now been perfected and in a few years will be good to go, we can all use our existing cars with none of the nightmare associated with electric, !!!

hear we have the doo gooder's idea's been forced on to the public, with no substance to back up there crazy ideologies again !!!

So which "doo gooder's" marched you into an OPC at gunpoint and made you hand over 120 grand ?

Synthetic fuels arent happening for the mainstream and what is made will be massively expensive, the world has cottoned on to the electric motor being three or four times more efficient.

Batteries will get better, and there is a lot of lithium on the planet, plus it can be extracted back out of old batteries and re used.

As charging opportunities and range improves, it will be less of a problem for all those folk in flats and other types of housing where they dont have their own driveway, I dont have an unleaded pump at home and I manage.

People seem to not realise they may have to adapt a bit if they want their own car, they arent suitable for everyone yet but as things change they will meet more folks expectations.

The problem with the Taycan isnt "Nobody wants them", they are still a very desirable car, but most were bought on company schemes for the BIK benefits with prices from 90 to 200 ish grand, thousands jumped on it as it was much cheaper overall proposition compared to a fast petrol or diesel, now we have second owners who have much lower budgets and more reticence about second hand EV's, a cost of living crisis, no Covid money left, a glut of ex lease cars and lots of noise about them being unwanted and worthless, which will I expect settle down to an extent.

A Panamera would have been expensive to run as well, would have spent more on BIK if its a company car, more on fuel, will still have depreciated pretty heavily, no Porsche has ever really been a value option, though some of the depreciation on Taycans is a cruel and unusual punishment.

There will always be bumps in any road, there will be winners and losers but I cant see any other solution than EV's, but it wont be an issue free overnight transition, just need to stick with it and hope that the battery tech gets improved, I am pretty optimistic about the engineers, chemists and whatever being able to turn out a battery that does the job to the point where its not really a concern any more. Hydrogen and Synthetic fuels will be around but niche, cant see anything else emerging.