RE: Porsche Taycan goes faster and further, costs more

[Terminator X]

GT9 said:

Terminator X said:

It is because people may need to do a long journey, even if a rare event, not because they do it every week. Most people own one car that needs to "do it all".

TX.

Clearly it's something to consider.
If it's a rare event then the cost of public or destination charging for that particular event shouldn't be a showstopper.
As long as the car can get there, where's the rub?
The right EV can already do it, albeit a more expensive one.
The ability for all EVs and crucially, the charging network to facilitate this will come, but only in time.
Like I keep saying, it's impossible to make the perfect overnight solution to transition away from fossil fuels.
That applies to all alternatives.
Some will remain impossible for far too long, electric has easily the shortest and least expensive path to viability.

You did say "the tens of millions of 'shoestring John O'Groaters' we seem to think we have amongst us"

People will only switch en masse when EV is similar to petrol and diesel. IMHO it will be carnage to get people to switch between now and 2035 certainly if the tech / infrastructure / purchase price / depreciation does not sort itself out. It is all sweetness and light in the eyes of EV fans though of course

TX.

[Frankychops]

pheonix478 said:

Frankychops said:

Have you ever launched a ‘super bike’? It’s a 10000x more exciting as you’ve no real room for error, takes skill and balls. It’s not the smme thing as pressing ‘go’.

Fast eV’s are ace, but it’s a minor trick in the scheme of things.

These should be a depreciation disaster, so as long as Porsche have fixed the reliability issues, they’ll be a great buy used.

Yes I have. Many times. Many bike trackdays, many crazy ring trips, too many badly smashed up friends too. Bikes are great not knocking them at all but even a Panigale or H2R will not prepare you for the physical force of doing 0-60 in 2 seconds, 6 inches off the ground. I think its safe to assume you've never launched a Turbo S.Yes that is one fun trick but you can get almost the same explosion out of any clear apex as ot writhes around underneath you. Its absolutely addictive and brilliant. Give it a go. It's different but it's still great fun. Even a 4s is fun but the Turbo S is mind scrambling for a road car.

Yes I have. Its mental but doesn't give me the same thrill as a bike, I guess due to how safe it feels in a car.

[Julian Scott]

blueg33 said:

otolith said:

The WLTP range is really just a comparative index. They should probably just quote it as a score rather than as miles. But then does anyone really think they will get the quoted mpg from their ICE in reality?

The point is that it’s different to petrol. If you run out of fuel in a be petrol car you have a wide range of places where you can fill up in 5 mins. In electric you have a few places and it takes 20 mins to an hour. This makes range more important in an EV

Or don't be thick and run out of fuel of any kind?

Not exactly fking rocket science is it?

[Julian Scott]

pheonix478 said:

Clearly so. All these threads are the same. The fact that we're talking about a luxury 4 door family car that can spank a superbike to 60, with ride and nvh not dissimilar to an s class and handling as engaging as some of the best ICE sports cars seems to have escaped all the experts who haven't actually driven one.

yeah...but.....white goods.....milk float.....fridge......

[Julian Scott]

Terminator X said:

GT9 said:

PinkHouse said:

There is no ICE car being produced today that would get half its quoted range while being driven at a steady 70mph on a motorway, regardless of ambient temperature but there are many current EVs that would achieve half or less of their quoted range in the winter with their heater on, driving at a constant 70mph

True, but this is one of the compromises of moving from a 'tank' that stores 800 kWh to 80 kWh.
Something has to give.
Fortunately, right now, we don't need it to be an acceptable compromise for everyone.
In fact, it's preferable that EVs only work for a small minority.
There would be a huge supply and demand imbalance otherwise.
The good news is that when the supply side of things has been sorted by the passage of time, the range/recharge thing will also be significantly improved.
Hopefully even for the tens of millions of 'shoestring John O'Groaters' we seem to think we have amongst us.

It is because people may need to do a long journey, even if a rare event, not because they do it every week. Most people own one car that needs to "do it all".

TX.

I sometimes need to carry more stuff than my 'do it all' car can carry, doesn't mean I have to buy a transit.

[Terminator X]

Julian Scott said:

Terminator X said:

GT9 said:

PinkHouse said:

There is no ICE car being produced today that would get half its quoted range while being driven at a steady 70mph on a motorway, regardless of ambient temperature but there are many current EVs that would achieve half or less of their quoted range in the winter with their heater on, driving at a constant 70mph

True, but this is one of the compromises of moving from a 'tank' that stores 800 kWh to 80 kWh.
Something has to give.
Fortunately, right now, we don't need it to be an acceptable compromise for everyone.
In fact, it's preferable that EVs only work for a small minority.
There would be a huge supply and demand imbalance otherwise.
The good news is that when the supply side of things has been sorted by the passage of time, the range/recharge thing will also be significantly improved.
Hopefully even for the tens of millions of 'shoestring John O'Groaters' we seem to think we have amongst us.

It is because people may need to do a long journey, even if a rare event, not because they do it every week. Most people own one car that needs to "do it all".

TX.

I sometimes need to carry more stuff than my 'do it all' car can carry, doesn't mean I have to buy a transit.

Lol do me a favour pls, just offer up one criticism of an EV. See if you can do it

TX.

[otolith]

PinkHouse said:

blueg33 said:

otolith said:

The WLTP range is really just a comparative index. They should probably just quote it as a score rather than as miles. But then does anyone really think they will get the quoted mpg from their ICE in reality?

The point is that it’s different to petrol. If you run out of fuel in a be petrol car you have a wide range of places where you can fill up in 5 mins. In electric you have a few places and it takes 20 mins to an hour. This makes range more important in an EV

There is no ICE car being produced today that would get half its quoted range while being driven at a steady 70mph on a motorway, regardless of ambient temperature but there are many current EVs that would achieve half or less of their quoted range in the winter with their heater on, driving at a constant 70mph

Yes, because those are the conditions that ICEs work best under. Compare their performance in stop start urban traffic, and they are nowhere near. Other way round for EVs.

[PinkHouse]

otolith said:

PinkHouse said:

blueg33 said:

otolith said:

The WLTP range is really just a comparative index. They should probably just quote it as a score rather than as miles. But then does anyone really think they will get the quoted mpg from their ICE in reality?

The point is that it’s different to petrol. If you run out of fuel in a be petrol car you have a wide range of places where you can fill up in 5 mins. In electric you have a few places and it takes 20 mins to an hour. This makes range more important in an EV

There is no ICE car being produced today that would get half its quoted range while being driven at a steady 70mph on a motorway, regardless of ambient temperature but there are many current EVs that would achieve half or less of their quoted range in the winter with their heater on, driving at a constant 70mph

Yes, because those are the conditions that ICEs work best under. Compare their performance in stop start urban traffic, and they are nowhere near. Other way round for EVs.

That's true but range isn't a limiting factor in urban traffic but it is in long motorway journeys

[otolith]

PinkHouse said:

That's true but range isn't a limiting factor in urban traffic but it is in long motorway journeys

Yes, it's more of a cost consideration than a range consideration with ICEs. But the similarity is that combined range/consumption figures are of dubious use if your actual usage doesn't reflect the split of conditions used in the testing protocol.

[Nomme de Plum]

Terminator X said:

Lol do me a favour pls, just offer up one criticism of an EV. See if you can do it

TX.

You can't be following the posts of quite a few here because their shortcoming have been listed on numerous occasion by those of us that think on balance they are a better form a personal transport but still very much in the infancy.

Nobody has ever said they are perfect but you surely have to admit if the EV was what we were all used to driving anyone suggesting a change to an ICE was a good thing would be thought to be more than slightly deranged.

[nismo48]

ds666 said:

PinkHouse said:

Julian Scott said:

If only they were as reliable as mpg figures have been over the last 20years..... oh.....

At least you rarely hear about ICE drivers having to turn off the heating in their cars in the depths of winter just to reach their destination. The consequences of false EV range claims are much worse than lower real-world mpg figures

I have heard of ICE drivers turning the heating up to maximum heat to keep the engine cool in summer …..

Reminds me of my old Dolly Sprint.

[Rumdoodle]

DonkeyApple said:

Julian Scott said:

GianiCakes said:

The ability to pre heat/cool the car remotely is one of the best things about an EV.

My supercharged V8 can do that via the app....it also does it with a bit a drama which becomes useful to wake the family (and neighbours)

I had an LSE Overfinch that would fire up on the remote. Companies like Clifford have been enabling that sort of thing since the 90s.

I lived in Siberia twenty years ago and people would remotely start their Ladas in the winter, having set the heater to full the night before. Send a zap from a few storeys up in the apartment block and go down ten minutes later.

Don't think they ever needed to pre-cool them, but I guess leaving the windows open would do the trick.

[theicemario]

Familymad said:

Must be pretty efficient to achieve over 350 real world. Suppose it's quite aero optimal. They are a great looking thing and the perf upgrades keep it north of a Macan EV. It's quite a bit faster than a GT3 off the line now.

Plenty of "aero optimal" EVs with crap efficiency. Thing is this one hasn't got the frontal area of a small lorry

[pheonix478]

Terminator X said:

Lol do me a favour pls, just offer up one criticism of an EV. See if you can do it

TX.

It doesn't sound as good as a great ICE, although the nothing/porsche sound of EV is better than most modern ICE. It doesn't take much skill to extract the performance like an analogue ICE. Takes 100 times longer to fill up. Er... I've yet to drive an EV that I planto keep for ever. Er... what's your point?

Almost forgot... I get 90% of my leccy from a diesel generator

Edited by pheonix478 on Friday 9th February 20:06

[miroku1]

No thanks , . . . Ever

[unrepentant]

miroku1 said:

No thanks , . . . Ever

Drive a Taycan Turbo S and forever have your misconceptions shattered. It's awesome.

[Nomme de Plum]

unrepentant said:

miroku1 said:

No thanks , . . . Ever

Drive a Taycan Turbo S and forever have your misconceptions shattered. It's awesome.

Assuming one has the budget for a bit more than a Puma.

[DonkeyApple]

unrepentant said:

Drive a Taycan Turbo S and forever have your misconceptions shattered. It's awesome.

That they are, probably the best EV out there at present, fantastic wagons but if one has the budget the Panamera is the better option. Take away the BIK and offer people help paying for petrol and few wouldn't take the Panamera over the Taycan.

[pheonix478]

Frankychops said:

pheonix478 said:

Frankychops said:

Have you ever launched a ‘super bike’? It’s a 10000x more exciting as you’ve no real room for error, takes skill and balls. It’s not the smme thing as pressing ‘go’.

Fast eV’s are ace, but it’s a minor trick in the scheme of things.

These should be a depreciation disaster, so as long as Porsche have fixed the reliability issues, they’ll be a great buy used.

Yes I have. Many times. Many bike trackdays, many crazy ring trips, too many badly smashed up friends too. Bikes are great not knocking them at all but even a Panigale or H2R will not prepare you for the physical force of doing 0-60 in 2 seconds, 6 inches off the ground. I think its safe to assume you've never launched a Turbo S.Yes that is one fun trick but you can get almost the same explosion out of any clear apex as ot writhes around underneath you. Its absolutely addictive and brilliant. Give it a go. It's different but it's still great fun. Even a 4s is fun but the Turbo S is mind scrambling for a road car.

Yes I have. Its mental but doesn't give me the same thrill as a bike, I guess due to how safe it feels in a car.

It doesn't give me the same thrill as sky diving either but a HALO jump is about as practical as a 916SPS on the school run. The fact that we're talking about a luxury 4 door saloon in the same sentence as superbikes is absolutely mental.

[blueg33]

Julian Scott said:

blueg33 said:

otolith said:

The WLTP range is really just a comparative index. They should probably just quote it as a score rather than as miles. But then does anyone really think they will get the quoted mpg from their ICE in reality?

The point is that it’s different to petrol. If you run out of fuel in a be petrol car you have a wide range of places where you can fill up in 5 mins. In electric you have a few places and it takes 20 mins to an hour. This makes range more important in an EV

Or don't be thick and run out of fuel of any kind?

Not exactly fking rocket science is it?

Harder to not be thick when you have less range and fewer places to fill up. And evening you are not been thick, taking 20mins to an hour to fill up every 200 miles is considerably less convenient than taking 5-10 mins every 300 miles.

I regularly do the same trip from London to Derbyshire as my colleague with his Taycan. I am always back in London nearly an hour ahead of him unless there is a charger at the site in Derbyshire.