RE: Porsche Taycan goes faster and further, costs more
Discussion
Julian Scott said:
PinkHouse said:
Julian Scott said:
If only they were as reliable as mpg figures have been over the last 20years..... oh.....
At least you rarely hear about ICE drivers having to turn off the heating in their cars in the depths of winter just to reach their destination. The consequences of false EV range claims are much worse than lower real-world mpg figuresI drive it due to BIK benefits but absolutely would not have one for my use case otherwise, 320D is the right car for my needs but tax is nuts
PinkHouse said:
Julian Scott said:
If only they were as reliable as mpg figures have been over the last 20years..... oh.....
At least you rarely hear about ICE drivers having to turn off the heating in their cars in the depths of winter just to reach their destination. The consequences of false EV range claims are much worse than lower real-world mpg figuresIn my stupid ICE cars, many a time when I’ve been sat trapped in a traffic jam in 30C heat in summer, I’ve had to sweat my balls off having put the cabin heater on max to try and keep engine temps under control. I think that’s 1-1 ice/ev
blueg33 said:
Julian Scott said:
blueg33 said:
otolith said:
The WLTP range is really just a comparative index. They should probably just quote it as a score rather than as miles. But then does anyone really think they will get the quoted mpg from their ICE in reality?
The point is that it’s different to petrol. If you run out of fuel in a be petrol car you have a wide range of places where you can fill up in 5 mins. In electric you have a few places and it takes 20 mins to an hour. This makes range more important in an EVNot exactly f
king rocket science is it?I regularly do the same trip from London to Derbyshire as my colleague with his Taycan. I am always back in London nearly an hour ahead of him unless there is a charger at the site in Derbyshire.
Range anxiety is clearly real but the stats are showing that it's becoming an irrational one. Quite amazing given the current state of the public network and the criticism it gets.
https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/electriccars/a...
320DMIKE said:
I have driven an EV for 2 years, cover around 20k a year for work and I’ve had to drive without heating countless times. Not trying to have an EV argument at all (I know that’s against the norm in the forums), just wanted to confirm it is absolutely a thing, sadly!
I drive it due to BIK benefits but absolutely would not have one for my use case otherwise, 320D is the right car for my needs but tax is nuts
Ha. I think it's one of those acclimatisation things but know what you mean. Heat is a luxury in an EV and I've just got used to driving in a slightly lower temperature. Comfortable but slightly lower than my ICE. 21 degrees in my i3s is strangely cooler than my other cars but seems to strike a balance between range and comfort.I drive it due to BIK benefits but absolutely would not have one for my use case otherwise, 320D is the right car for my needs but tax is nuts
You've hit the nail on the head though. It's all a compromise and basically down to which one you're going to choose. I did 18k miles in my first year of ownership but thankfully now WFH. At those rates you go through cars like hot cakes so I guess you might be able to find something more suitable next time round (I'm thinking something with more range so you can whack the heater on).
blueg33 said:
Harder to not be thick when you have less range and fewer places to fill up. And evening you are not been thick, taking 20mins to an hour to fill up every 200 miles is considerably less convenient than taking 5-10 mins every 300 miles.
I regularly do the same trip from London to Derbyshire as my colleague with his Taycan. I am always back in London nearly an hour ahead of him unless there is a charger at the site in Derbyshire.
This is an area where it's either genuinely not understood by some or they wish to not accept such a reality exists. When money isn't tight then leisure time and convenience become more valuable, ie without thinking, money is just thrown at ensuring you aren't inconvenienced. Pay more for a hotel that does more and is closer to where you need to be. Pay more for segregation and streamlining on flights. Etc. I regularly do the same trip from London to Derbyshire as my colleague with his Taycan. I am always back in London nearly an hour ahead of him unless there is a charger at the site in Derbyshire.
Now certain EV and their usage fits that superbly. A runabout EV is defacto the better choice over a runabout ICe. There are other cars for the other needs and this car is simply for local labour. The shops, school, local journeys and in an emergency will still fill in for one of the other cars. In addition, you receive special tax treatment, special parking, even special roads along with the obvious aspect of super cheap and easy refuelling.
At the other end of the convenience spectrum is something like the Taycan. It is not de facto superior to its ICE alternatives. It fits a specific usage case or budget but outside of a relatively restricted, limited set of parameters the luxury and convenience that one is pay a very large sum for falls away extremely quickly. Use it like one might be expected to use a Porsche and unless you never stray more than a few miles from home and then don't need the vehicle for a known amount of time after and you are paying hard earned money to have to go to third party chargers. That third party charging network then dictates what speed you use over your journey, whether you even go on that journey and which route you must take.
That's the element that I have a feeling some genuinely don't get. Not every person wishes to pay money to be controlled by others or external factors. Some people see the having of excess money as a complete freedom from being under the influence or control of third parties.
There will come a time when the Taycan is more luxurious than the Panamera but just at the moment it needs to be cheaper to compensate for that loss of freedom or the user to have a usage case that happens to sit within the restricted capabilities of the vehicle.
The strange aspect being that accepting or understanding that logic has absolutely zero bearing on one's overall view regarding EVs but some do wish to conflate the two. Akin to liking football but suggesting that a footballer may not make a better or as good rugby player only for someone to vehemently disagree purely on the grounds that they absolutely love football and it is betterer than any other activity and that a footballer can do anything better than anyone because football. One is going to suspect the individual might be a little troubled and question how you've ended up where you have. In the case of an EV that might be a motorway services you should never have paid money to ensure you ended up at.
Terminator X said:
Julian Scott said:
Terminator X said:
GT9 said:
PinkHouse said:
There is no ICE car being produced today that would get half its quoted range while being driven at a steady 70mph on a motorway, regardless of ambient temperature but there are many current EVs that would achieve half or less of their quoted range in the winter with their heater on, driving at a constant 70mph
True, but this is one of the compromises of moving from a 'tank' that stores 800 kWh to 80 kWh.Something has to give.
Fortunately, right now, we don't need it to be an acceptable compromise for everyone.
In fact, it's preferable that EVs only work for a small minority.
There would be a huge supply and demand imbalance otherwise.
The good news is that when the supply side of things has been sorted by the passage of time, the range/recharge thing will also be significantly improved.
Hopefully even for the tens of millions of 'shoestring John O'Groaters' we seem to think we have amongst us.
TX.
TX.
As for a negative, well I chose not to buy one, simply because I didn't want to. But I can't think of any universal criticism about an EV (maybe just the fact that it doesn't sound as good as my V8!), just as I can't think of any universal criticism of ICE (most of which likewise don't sound like my V8....and many sound worse than a silent EV). Specific cars of any powertrain, I can offer plenty of criticism, but it's a little bizarre to just irrationally hate an entire mode of transport for no real reason.
Meanwhile, you are hell bent on scientifically 'proving' that they are useless, rather that just admitting you just don't like them.
Edited by Julian Scott on Saturday 10th February 14:11
Julian Scott said:
blueg33 said:
Harder to not be thick when you have less range and fewer places to fill up.
It really isn't. I used to have a car than would only do 100 miles on a tank. I never ran out of petrol.Julian Scott said:
MY comment has nothing to do with it being an EV?
As for a negative, well I chose not to buy one, simply because I didn't want to. But I can't think of any universal criticism about an EV (maybe just the fact that it doesn't sound as good as my V8!), just as I can't think of any universal criticism of ICE (most of which likewise don't sound like my V8....and many sound worse than a silent EV). Specific cars of any powertrain, I can offer plenty of criticism, but it's a little bizarre to just irrationally hate an entire mode of transport for no real reason.
Meanwhile, you are hell bent on scientifically 'proving' that they are useless, rather that just admitting you just don't like them.
I don't like EV at all. Posted that many times. I'm not a fan of diesel either but we don't get the diesel crowd name calling in every thread.As for a negative, well I chose not to buy one, simply because I didn't want to. But I can't think of any universal criticism about an EV (maybe just the fact that it doesn't sound as good as my V8!), just as I can't think of any universal criticism of ICE (most of which likewise don't sound like my V8....and many sound worse than a silent EV). Specific cars of any powertrain, I can offer plenty of criticism, but it's a little bizarre to just irrationally hate an entire mode of transport for no real reason.
Meanwhile, you are hell bent on scientifically 'proving' that they are useless, rather that just admitting you just don't like them.
Edited by Julian Scott on Saturday 10th February 14:11
Plenty of EV love in this place which is absolutely fine. The same should be possible for the reverse.
TX.
Edited by Terminator X on Saturday 10th February 14:45
Terminator X said:
I don't like EV at all. Posted that many times. I'm not a fan of diesel either but we don't get the diesel crowd name calling in every thread.
Plenty of EV love in this place which is absolutely fine. The same should be possible for the reverse.
TX.
Genuine question as I can't be arsed to look.Plenty of EV love in this place which is absolutely fine. The same should be possible for the reverse.
TX.
Is there not an EV haters thread on PH where you can all congregate?
AMVSVNick said:
Terminator X said:
I don't like EV at all. Posted that many times. I'm not a fan of diesel either but we don't get the diesel crowd name calling in every thread.
Plenty of EV love in this place which is absolutely fine. The same should be possible for the reverse.
TX.
Genuine question as I can't be arsed to look.Plenty of EV love in this place which is absolutely fine. The same should be possible for the reverse.
TX.
Is there not an EV haters thread on PH where you can all congregate?
TX.
Terminator X said:
AMVSVNick said:
Terminator X said:
I don't like EV at all. Posted that many times. I'm not a fan of diesel either but we don't get the diesel crowd name calling in every thread.
Plenty of EV love in this place which is absolutely fine. The same should be possible for the reverse.
TX.
Genuine question as I can't be arsed to look.Plenty of EV love in this place which is absolutely fine. The same should be possible for the reverse.
TX.
Is there not an EV haters thread on PH where you can all congregate?
TX.
Chapeau TX. At least you're honest about it. Much better to come out and lay your cards out than beat about the bush.
Some will try all manner of mental gymnastics instead of just saying that they hate EVs. Much more refreshing to hear some just day they don't like them.
Edited by Zero Fuchs on Saturday 10th February 23:52
blueg33 said:
Julian Scott said:
blueg33 said:
Harder to not be thick when you have less range and fewer places to fill up.
It really isn't. I used to have a car than would only do 100 miles on a tank. I never ran out of petrol.ds666 said:
blueg33 said:
Julian Scott said:
blueg33 said:
Harder to not be thick when you have less range and fewer places to fill up.
It really isn't. I used to have a car than would only do 100 miles on a tank. I never ran out of petrol.He may well have numerous other reasons to think that person is a dick. Ownership of an electric car is merely a symptom of a more fundamental problem.
Zero Fuchs said:
Chapeau TX. At least you're honest about it. Much better to come out and lay your cards out than beat about the bush.
Some will try all manner of mental gymnastics instead of just saying that they hate EVs. Much more refreshing to hear some just day they don't like them.
Edited by Zero Fuchs on Saturday 10th February 23:52
EV owner 1: "It's amazing that I can heat it up before I get in." (Which, as I have mentioned previously, the Russians figured out how to do with a £500 Lada twenty years ago.)
EV owner 2: "I have to switch the f
king heater off in my £100k car if I have to travel more than 200 miles on a cold day."Anticipated response from thicko ICE owner
Rumdoodle said:
Mental gymnastics is a a diplomatic way of putting it.
EV owner 1: "It's amazing that I can heat it up before I get in." (Which, as I have mentioned previously, the Russians figured out how to do with a £500 Lada twenty years ago.)
EV owner 2: "I have to switch the fking heater off in my £100k car if I have to travel more than 200 miles on a cold day."
Anticipated response from thicko ICE owner
EV owner 1: "It's amazing that I can heat it up before I get in." (Which, as I have mentioned previously, the Russians figured out how to do with a £500 Lada twenty years ago.)
EV owner 2: "I have to switch the f
king heater off in my £100k car if I have to travel more than 200 miles on a cold day."Anticipated response from thicko ICE owner
Although oddly enough I visited a client in Oxford last week. 100 miles of range. 120 mile journey. Mix of 30, 60 and 70mph. Heater set to 21 deg. Outside 5 deg.
Thought I'd need destination charging but got there and back with 15 miles to spare. EVs are a peculiar thing.
EV heating and range is quite variable. But it's not the only metric and obviously not a major driver when considering one. It's definitely one of the downsides but one I can live with. You definitely don't have heating issues with ICE but whilst the Russians may have put that feature in a LADA not many have since. Not sure why.
Julian Scott said:
blueg33 said:
Harder to not be thick when you have less range and fewer places to fill up.
It really isn't. I used to have a car than would only do 100 miles on a tank. I never ran out of petrol.A good 100 mile thrash would seriously deplete the tank
blueg33 said:
Julian Scott said:
blueg33 said:
Harder to not be thick when you have less range and fewer places to fill up.
It really isn't. I used to have a car than would only do 100 miles on a tank. I never ran out of petrol.Obviously, the ability to 'fill up' over night, every night, is a great assets on top of that.
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