RE: Porsche Taycan goes faster and further, costs more
Discussion
Terminator X said:
Julian Scott said:
MY comment has nothing to do with it being an EV?
As for a negative, well I chose not to buy one, simply because I didn't want to. But I can't think of any universal criticism about an EV (maybe just the fact that it doesn't sound as good as my V8!), just as I can't think of any universal criticism of ICE (most of which likewise don't sound like my V8....and many sound worse than a silent EV). Specific cars of any powertrain, I can offer plenty of criticism, but it's a little bizarre to just irrationally hate an entire mode of transport for no real reason.
Meanwhile, you are hell bent on scientifically 'proving' that they are useless, rather that just admitting you just don't like them.
I don't like EV at all. Posted that many times. I'm not a fan of diesel either but we don't get the diesel crowd name calling in every thread.As for a negative, well I chose not to buy one, simply because I didn't want to. But I can't think of any universal criticism about an EV (maybe just the fact that it doesn't sound as good as my V8!), just as I can't think of any universal criticism of ICE (most of which likewise don't sound like my V8....and many sound worse than a silent EV). Specific cars of any powertrain, I can offer plenty of criticism, but it's a little bizarre to just irrationally hate an entire mode of transport for no real reason.
Meanwhile, you are hell bent on scientifically 'proving' that they are useless, rather that just admitting you just don't like them.
Edited by Julian Scott on Saturday 10th February 14:11
Plenty of EV love in this place which is absolutely fine. The same should be possible for the reverse.
TX.
Edited by Terminator X on Saturday 10th February 14:45
Rumdoodle said:
Julian Scott said:
Not exactly f
king rocket science is it?
Nor is making a hundred grand car that you can use the heater in during normal usage.king rocket science is it?Modern EV thermal systems have COPs >>1 and can pull heat from seemingly nowhere.
borat52 said:
blueg33 said:
The founder of the business I am involved with has a Taycan Turbo S. Range at this time of year is under 200 miles, he regularly drives with the heater off so he can get from central London to sites in Derbyshire without losing 40 minutes charging.
I have driven the car. When you get to a town it’s simply too big/wide to be anything other than annoying, it’s too wide to be quick on a decent b road. It has very little people space for a huge car.
The only thing it has is speed, but use that and the range suffers badly.
The new one only seems to be making a small range improvement.
Current owner here and agree with all of the above. I've got a 7 mile commute to work and in the cold snap a few weeks ago I wasn't getting much over 100 miles range due to the cycle of warming up the car for a small journey then losing that heat when I just used to to commute to work and repeated that for the trip home (not pre heating when plugged in granted)I have driven the car. When you get to a town it’s simply too big/wide to be anything other than annoying, it’s too wide to be quick on a decent b road. It has very little people space for a huge car.
The only thing it has is speed, but use that and the range suffers badly.
The new one only seems to be making a small range improvement.
.
J4CKO said:
Yeah, but you tried flogging a Panamera recently as well ?
They dont seem to fly out of the showroom instantly without a hefty chunk of depreciation.
Taycan has been hard hit as its an EV and second owners dont tend to have the same circumstances that the first owners did that made it an easier choice but most fast, posh and expensive has taken a disproportionate battering post Covid as the deffered depreciation is kicking in, supply of new stuff is back to normal and a lot of people have seen there monthly expenses go up by hundreds, and in some cases, thousands of pounds.
So plenty trying to bail out of a large, posh millstone and less trying to buy one.
Taycans will find their level, I think they will become tempting once into the late thirties, way to drop yet, people do want them, but they are sat there like they are judges on "The Voice" waiting for prices to drop further before turning round, still a bit too rich for most private buyers who want one, even 911 GT3s have come down which is a barometer of consumer confidence, lot of negative equity and regret out there. This wont last forever and isnt done yet, like 2008 didnt so the next few months, maybe 2 years is the time to get something interesting for sensible money.
I always remember a mate pre millenium doing IT contracting, he had more money than he knew what to do with, he paid 2 grand for some speakers back in 1999, offered them to me for £200 a couple of years later as was back to a normal salary and was skint, and I think a lot got that mentality with Covid loans, furlough cash and not spending, so some manky old Hot Hatch for 20 grand seemed a good idea as a project, as did posh watches, four grand for a dog and Peleton bikes which are now mainly used for hanging clothes on in a lot of cases.
Great post! They dont seem to fly out of the showroom instantly without a hefty chunk of depreciation.
Taycan has been hard hit as its an EV and second owners dont tend to have the same circumstances that the first owners did that made it an easier choice but most fast, posh and expensive has taken a disproportionate battering post Covid as the deffered depreciation is kicking in, supply of new stuff is back to normal and a lot of people have seen there monthly expenses go up by hundreds, and in some cases, thousands of pounds.
So plenty trying to bail out of a large, posh millstone and less trying to buy one.
Taycans will find their level, I think they will become tempting once into the late thirties, way to drop yet, people do want them, but they are sat there like they are judges on "The Voice" waiting for prices to drop further before turning round, still a bit too rich for most private buyers who want one, even 911 GT3s have come down which is a barometer of consumer confidence, lot of negative equity and regret out there. This wont last forever and isnt done yet, like 2008 didnt so the next few months, maybe 2 years is the time to get something interesting for sensible money.
I always remember a mate pre millenium doing IT contracting, he had more money than he knew what to do with, he paid 2 grand for some speakers back in 1999, offered them to me for £200 a couple of years later as was back to a normal salary and was skint, and I think a lot got that mentality with Covid loans, furlough cash and not spending, so some manky old Hot Hatch for 20 grand seemed a good idea as a project, as did posh watches, four grand for a dog and Peleton bikes which are now mainly used for hanging clothes on in a lot of cases.
GroundEffect said:
The idea that this is a negative for an EV is nonsensical IMO, i.e., "These EVs are too efficient for me, it makes it difficult to use that waste heat for warming my bum". We're just used to vehicles that have total thermal efficiencies of <30%.
Modern EV thermal systems have COPs >>1 and can pull heat from seemingly nowhere.
I don't know what a COPS>>1 is, but I would suggest they come up with a more interesting name. Modern EV thermal systems have COPs >>1 and can pull heat from seemingly nowhere.
My understanding of the EV owner's posts were not about using heated seats. It was about general cabin heating.
I'm sure they'll pipe up and clarify as necessary.
Rumdoodle said:
Julian Scott said:
Rumdoodle said:
Julian Scott said:
Not exactly fking rocket science is it?
Nor is making a hundred grand car that you can use the heater in during normal usage.king rocket science is it?Rumdoodle said:
GroundEffect said:
The idea that this is a negative for an EV is nonsensical IMO, i.e., "These EVs are too efficient for me, it makes it difficult to use that waste heat for warming my bum". We're just used to vehicles that have total thermal efficiencies of <30%.
Modern EV thermal systems have COPs >>1 and can pull heat from seemingly nowhere.
I don't know what a COPS>>1 is, but I would suggest they come up with a more interesting name. Modern EV thermal systems have COPs >>1 and can pull heat from seemingly nowhere.
My understanding of the EV owner's posts were not about using heated seats. It was about general cabin heating.
I'm sure they'll pipe up and clarify as necessary.
When it’s particularly cold I will use the climate function to heat the car on the driveway. Without being plugged in this uses 1-2% of the battery (so around 0.6 - 1.2 kWh, or a worst case of 5 miles of range). This heats the car for 30 minutes, with a target temperature of 22°C. Once that is done the heating you require in most journeys is going to be minimal.
Rumdoodle said:
Julian Scott said:
Not normal usage though is it. It's one owner citing an example.
I was referring to that owner's normal usage, which they were describing. I thought the quote made that obvious. I'll try to be less opaque in future.ajap1979 said:
To be fair, that poster talks about “warming up the car” prior to a 7 mile journey, in very cold weather. Preheating is completely different to preconditioning, so that poster is using battery to warm up the car interior prior to driving 7 miles on a cold battery. I’d suggest the heating element of this is meaningless and is contributing nothing to the reduced range, it’s simply that you’re travelling a very short distance and the battery has no chance of reaching an optimal temperature. This logic would be mirrored exactly, regardless of whether the car was petrol, diesel, or electric.
Far less energy used pre-heating my Tesla for a 7 mile trip in the cold vs firing up my 14 year old Hyundai petrol car. Fuel cars burn a lot of fuel when warming up and on short trips.Julian Scott said:
Not normal usage though is it. It's one owner citing an example.
Exactly, I can get from Staffordshire to Essex and back by plugging it in on the destination charger for the length of meeting that I’m going for without having to moderate my speed or turn the heater off.If I didn’t have the destination charger or my regular meeting was in Edinburgh then I’d have bought the wrong car. It’s not that hard is it.
As for the 7 miles commute, my old Jag did 11mpg on the 5 mile round trip to our local factory vs 27mpg on the motorway. I had to fill it up pretty much just as often on the weeks I did 100 miles as the weeks I did 250. The Taycan I’ve found fine, I’ve still been getting 2m/kwh on that run, so only have to plug it in overnight every couple of weeks.
Edited by The Wookie on Wednesday 14th February 17:21
What a load of twaddle. I set the ac at 22, two years ago and have never thought about it since. As for it being too big in town maybe some driving lessons are in order. Never even thought about it. Range? Have only ever filled up at home usually once a week. You do all realise you can have more than one car for your daily trips to Monaco right? I'm currently just north of Quebec, it's minus 10 in the day and there are Teslas everywhere, they don't seem to be afflicted by the same terrible problems you lot seem to have when it's +5 
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