An epidemic of insanely slow drivers
Discussion
M4cruiser said:
I was reading up on driving in Spain, and this caught my eye:-
"You may exceed the speed limit by 20km/h to overtake a slower vehicle outside built-up areas, except on motorways and dual carriageways. "
That would seem to help some posters on here!
A bit of common sense there"You may exceed the speed limit by 20km/h to overtake a slower vehicle outside built-up areas, except on motorways and dual carriageways. "
That would seem to help some posters on here!
I did my motorcycle IAM - I ride a 1200cc KTM, we went on the Fosseway, he said he wanted to see me overtake, I asked do I have to stick to the speed limit
He said I did, we went up and down and I didn't overtake. He inquired why and I said I didn't think it was safe to do so
When he finally agreed to a bit of common sense I overtook many cars quickly and safely - the entire point is to minimise your TED, not sit next to them watching your speedo
theplayingmantis said:
Unreal said:
I can count the number of times someone has pulled over to let traffic past on the fingers of one hand. I think it's one of those things only PHers do/don't do, like they're the only people who never tailgate, never cut corners or object to being overtaken.
Two separate farm vehicles yesterday with probably half mile tailbacks ignoring spots where they could pull in. These are locals so they know where they could stop but instead built up a wall of frustrated drivers behind them. People at intervals along the queue risking head on by trying multiple overtakes. Taycan driver if it was you that I had to help out by not getting driven into - get some bloody driving lessons.
Semi-fortunately I was going the the other way, but earlier in the day, no traffic about and I catch one of these people who drive in the right hand lane of a two lane road when there is virtually zero traffic. Just why? It just has to be some ghastly Audi suv thing doesn't it? So I arrive on the scene in the left lane, pull out behind, no tailgating. Does he pull over? Does he f
k. Puts his foot down. Far, far more common occurrence than dawdlers. Like the farm vehicles, obstructive and provocative.
why not just calmly and quietly, quickly undertake, being extremely vigilant that hes not gonna suddnely wake up/'punish' you. it really is the calmest, and sadly, increasingly safest option (given the tirals oand tribulations of forming a queue, build up of other tailgaters behind etc)Two separate farm vehicles yesterday with probably half mile tailbacks ignoring spots where they could pull in. These are locals so they know where they could stop but instead built up a wall of frustrated drivers behind them. People at intervals along the queue risking head on by trying multiple overtakes. Taycan driver if it was you that I had to help out by not getting driven into - get some bloody driving lessons.
Semi-fortunately I was going the the other way, but earlier in the day, no traffic about and I catch one of these people who drive in the right hand lane of a two lane road when there is virtually zero traffic. Just why? It just has to be some ghastly Audi suv thing doesn't it? So I arrive on the scene in the left lane, pull out behind, no tailgating. Does he pull over? Does he f
k. Puts his foot down. Far, far more common occurrence than dawdlers. Like the farm vehicles, obstructive and provocative.Foss62 said:
theplayingmantis said:
I was overtaken in a residential road at 30 on Friday night (around midnight) dropping a friend off after dinner, a bald man with a long beard, in a lexus SUV EV. not sure why as i was doing an indicated 30, which in that car is a 28/29 depending on waze/google. possibly a poster on here!
Is that just an anecdote or a complaint? If the latter then I personally would not complain about it if not personally inconvenienced in any way - it’s up to them. If on the other hand they were also moaning about you as an insanely slow driver and claiming you shouldn’t be on the road, then I would take a less charitable view.M4cruiser said:
I was reading up on driving in Spain, and this caught my eye:-
"You may exceed the speed limit by 20km/h to overtake a slower vehicle outside built-up areas, except on motorways and dual carriageways. "
That would seem to help some posters on here!
Probably not M4, as there's no need to speed to overtake those doing 40 in a 60 when conditions dictate 60 is an appropriate speed, unless there are limited opportunities to overtake, and the frustrated let there frustration boil over and do something silly. its not condoning impatience, but its folly to infer those driving very slowly for whatever reason create a hazard on the road and poor driving in those behind them. Yes people should leave earlier, calm down, etc., but human nature is such that at times people don't and selfish rolling roadblocks who won't pull over and let others pass every so often, create and exacerbate poor driving in others. "You may exceed the speed limit by 20km/h to overtake a slower vehicle outside built-up areas, except on motorways and dual carriageways. "
That would seem to help some posters on here!
Based on this thread you are one of those road blocks I'm afraid, and that's without you clogging up the middle lane refusing to keep left unless overtaking, as you have admitted in other threads. Your understanding of the 'rules of the road' (terrible term but too tired on the train to think of better) based on who you thought was at fault for the slip road merge video you posted, is frankly scary. Its frightening people such as you are on the roads just waiting to plow into traffic on the A/M road as you join slowly, no doubt, on the slip road, before aiming to settle into your middle lane at 50mph...!
i assume its a sense of control people need as they don't have any 'power/authority' in other aspects of their life. I would suggest getting dog who you can safely order about without any inconvenience to others.
having read all the thread there are many strawmen, but ultimately its down to consideration which there is a complete lack of in society, people who wish to drive at well below the limit should carry on but should be considerate to those behind and make it easy for them to get past as necessary, and some on here taking extreme views the other way should consider there are on
occasions reasons people can't/won't do the limit and show some understanding their way, but it does appear its inattentiveness/poor ability/confidence that people do it.
Oh and also NDP is deliberately contrarian and has too much time on his hands now hes retired and is bored. just skim over whatever he types on most threads. go down the pub for these arguments NDP.
MightyBadger said:
If it's safe to travel at the speed limit I will do just that, it's obviously not advisable to attempt hairpins driving on the speed limit on a 60 road but most people know that as its just common sense, drive to the conditions and layout accordingly.... that said many seem to be lacking in the common sense department 
If you only feel safe doing 30/40 in a 60 that's ok, just don't get arsey and start flashing and gesturing when you get safely overtook by somebody travelling a bit faster.
Its the 40mph everywhere crew that are annoying to me, I overtook you when you were dawdling on the 60 road but you seem to have caught me up in the 30 and are now glued to my bumper. I hope your washing gets blown off the line and lands in fox st.
Rant over.
Not too long ago, last year some time. A12 was closed Colchester to Ipswich. Coming back relatively late, midnight ish. I wasn't too familiar with the diversion which is a mixture of B roads with national speed limit and then small villages with 30mph zones, been that way maybe twice since l passed my test. Anyway, I was dwardling, not knowing the road, pitch black and candles for lights on a 22yr old VW. Fast car approaching in my mirror, popped the left indicator on to say free to overtake. He flew pass, some Eastern European Audi. Quick flash of the hazard lights to say thanks. That's the sort of etiquette I expect back if I was making progress. But there is absolutely none of it nowadays. No manners, barely get a thank you if you let someone through or out of a junctionIf you only feel safe doing 30/40 in a 60 that's ok, just don't get arsey and start flashing and gesturing when you get safely overtook by somebody travelling a bit faster.
Its the 40mph everywhere crew that are annoying to me, I overtook you when you were dawdling on the 60 road but you seem to have caught me up in the 30 and are now glued to my bumper. I hope your washing gets blown off the line and lands in fox s
t.Rant over.
Unreal said:
I used to do a lot of motorway driving but now it's pretty rare so it was interesting to do a few hundred miles recently and compare it to how it used to be.
I was surprised by the number of people adhering strictly to the limit. On the surface this would seem like a good thing but it leads to glacial overtakes and very frustrated faster drivers. I found this a complete contrast to my previous experience where the range of speeds was much wider. Impossible to tell if people are being antagonistic or just unaware but cooperation seemed in pretty short supply.
'They' claim low speed differentials are safer and reduce accidents / the impact of accidents, but as you note, it makes no sense because passing someone at a 0.1mph higher speed means a massively longer TED - and that's not to mention average speed cameras in roadworks causing people to unthinkingly drift along next to each other (and 44 tonne lorries) for miles. I was surprised by the number of people adhering strictly to the limit. On the surface this would seem like a good thing but it leads to glacial overtakes and very frustrated faster drivers. I found this a complete contrast to my previous experience where the range of speeds was much wider. Impossible to tell if people are being antagonistic or just unaware but cooperation seemed in pretty short supply.
Arguably it has also contributed to the shocking lack of lane discipline - I am sure that 'in the old days' the much slower traffic pulled in quickly because they knew they were slower and that faster cars were looking to make progress, but now 'Well, I'm doing 70' is the mindset and people travelling quicker on the safest roads in the land are labelled as maniacs.
It's also boring as hell staring at the same few cars for ages if one is looking to make progress where safe to do so, meaning less attention gets paid to the road and road environment after a while. I recall a comment in evo magazine (IIRC) that in the US with traffic that ends up one multi-lane stream at the same speed, it ends up feeling like the road is moving below you rather than the vehicles moving.
[/shakes fist at cloud]
Edited by RSTurboPaul on Tuesday 23 April 00:27
Unfortunately, that’s a result of “smart” motorways IMO. If I drive the M25 and M1, the motorways most local to me, I tend to sit just over 70mph because there are cameras everywhere. I don’t drive these roads enough to have an encyclopaedic knowledge of which gantries are camera’d up so I save myself some anxiety and plod along, frustrating though it is. Added to that is the constant variable speed changes and average sections of roadworks and I just can’t be bothered to run the gauntlet of have I / haven’t I been caught, or the pointless exercise of speeding up and slowing down between gantries.
I do keep out of the way of faster traffic, though, and try to keep left where possible. When I’m on a normal section of motorway then I will adopt a more common sense approach to driving, though even these aren’t devoid of cameras entirely.
These days I drive to the road, and with respect to my knowledge of that road. Driving really has become a joyless slog.
I do keep out of the way of faster traffic, though, and try to keep left where possible. When I’m on a normal section of motorway then I will adopt a more common sense approach to driving, though even these aren’t devoid of cameras entirely.
These days I drive to the road, and with respect to my knowledge of that road. Driving really has become a joyless slog.
119 said:
Speed limits are a maximum, not a target.
Speed limits are those speeds deemed suitable for a section of road, by the government, the police, and motoring authorities. to allow the widest range of drivers, and vehicles to travel on them in relative safety. Therefore, when road, weather, traffic and daylight conditions allow, there is no good reason why a reasonably competent driver cannot travel on them at or near the posted limit.
The ones who cause problems for this arrangement, are those who exceed posted limits by a large margin and those dawdle at well below the posted limits. both are as bad as each other, in terms of their effect on other road users.
119 said:
KTMsm said:
119 said:
Speed limits are a maximum, not a target.
A maximum what ?Certainly not the maximum safe speed
That's the problem everything has been so dumbed down, when the limits were set with the cars of the time they possibly were sensible
But instead of being increased due to better cars, tyres etc. They've been reduced !
Quite old, but would be an interesting read.
https://www.parliament.uk/globalassets/documents/c...
It makes those who don't use their mirrors, (driving without due care and attention) or worse still, those who `do; use their mirrors and know, but don't care about, how many other road users they are impeding, an even more objectionable attitude to other road users.
If people want to go slow on a public road, the answer is simple., Walk, use a bicycle, take the bus (But even these are likely to go faster than a dawdler) Clearly time, and journey times, are of no importance to dawdlers.
trumpton7291 said:
theplayingmantis said:
I was overtaken in a residential road at 30 on Friday night (around midnight) dropping a friend off after dinner, a bald man with a long beard, in a lexus SUV EV. not sure why as i was doing an indicated 30, which in that car is a 28/29 depending on waze/google. possibly a poster on here!
As they said on my (court mandated) speed awareness course when someone enquired about being overtaken while doing the speed limit: "It's THEIR problem." Unless you're the traffic police just let them past as probably safer than tailgating you.
It is those who are so selfish, and ignorant, who see no problem in dawdling at well below a posted limit, with a huge queue of other road users built up behind them.
If the traffic in front of a dawdler, has disappeared off into the distance, whilst there is a huge queue of other road users, built up behind the dawdler, there are no prizes for guessing who is the problem driver on that piece of road.
Stupidly, last Saturday, I decided to take the Abarth for my commute to work, instead of my motorbike.
I said to myself, just accept the 20mph limit and the fact that most of the drivers will be dawdling at 15mph, take 2 minutes to 'accelerate' from 0 to 17, not indicate, stop for no reason, sit at 30 in lane 2 of the local 40 average dual carriageway etc
I lasted a mile or so.
I said to myself, just accept the 20mph limit and the fact that most of the drivers will be dawdling at 15mph, take 2 minutes to 'accelerate' from 0 to 17, not indicate, stop for no reason, sit at 30 in lane 2 of the local 40 average dual carriageway etc
I lasted a mile or so.
bigothunter said:
Alias218 said:
Driving really has become a joyless slog.
With the frequently declared goal of getting motorists out of their cars, I can't help but believe the 'joyless slog' is intentional. Expect the pain to continue increasing.Buy a car suited for the realities of transporting you for h where you need to get to, whether that is an automatic or better still a lovely smooth EV, and plan to get your motoring fun at other times and life doesn’t seem quite as frustrating.
You might even cut those ‘dawdlers’ (who are probably just driving at a speed that is safe for them at the time) some slack.
Pan Pan Pan said:
Speed limits are those speeds deemed suitable for a section of road, by the government, the police, and motoring authorities. to allow the widest range of drivers, and vehicles to travel on them in relative safety.
Therefore, when road, weather, traffic and daylight conditions allow, there is no good reason why a reasonably competent driver cannot travel on them at or near the posted limit.
The ones who cause problems for this arrangement, are those who exceed posted limits by a large margin and those dawdle at well below the posted limits. both are as bad as each other, in terms of their effect on other road users.
Very well put. Therefore, when road, weather, traffic and daylight conditions allow, there is no good reason why a reasonably competent driver cannot travel on them at or near the posted limit.
The ones who cause problems for this arrangement, are those who exceed posted limits by a large margin and those dawdle at well below the posted limits. both are as bad as each other, in terms of their effect on other road users.
Alias218 said:
Unfortunately, that’s a result of “smart” motorways IMO. If I drive the M25 and M1, the motorways most local to me, I tend to sit just over 70mph because there are cameras everywhere. I don’t drive these roads enough to have an encyclopaedic knowledge of which gantries are camera’d up so I save myself some anxiety and plod along, frustrating though it is. Added to that is the constant variable speed changes and average sections of roadworks and I just can’t be bothered to run the gauntlet of have I / haven’t I been caught, or the pointless exercise of speeding up and slowing down between gantries.
I do keep out of the way of faster traffic, though, and try to keep left where possible. When I’m on a normal section of motorway then I will adopt a more common sense approach to driving, though even these aren’t devoid of cameras entirely.
These days I drive to the road, and with respect to my knowledge of that road. Driving really has become a joyless slog.
i do the same on smart motorways, well m25, put cruise on indicated 73, which is about 68. often in the empty inside lane, merrily undertaking folk, until forced over either by HGV's or l1 going off completely, although its often not on for long given the terrible lane discipline people sitting in l3 of 4 at 60...and all bets are off once you approach Heathrow and the inevitable phantom holdups, caused by even poorer lane discipline, people in completely wrong lane for exits, cutting across, needles cadence braking (well tapping on brakes every so frequently as to appear as such) by many who probably never passed in the UK.I do keep out of the way of faster traffic, though, and try to keep left where possible. When I’m on a normal section of motorway then I will adopt a more common sense approach to driving, though even these aren’t devoid of cameras entirely.
These days I drive to the road, and with respect to my knowledge of that road. Driving really has become a joyless slog.
what i find odd though is those who don't stick to a steady 70ish and blat it where assumedly they know no cameras are, typically are those who slam on the brakes at a camera and go down to well under 70, meaning they make no progress over those doing a consistent 70, often in a blacked out window, illegal modified plate, German suv with added halfordsy bits, there are very few who speed then brake to 70 then speed up.
740EVTORQUES said:
bigothunter said:
Alias218 said:
Driving really has become a joyless slog.
With the frequently declared goal of getting motorists out of their cars, I can't help but believe the 'joyless slog' is intentional. Expect the pain to continue increasing.Buy a car suited for the realities of transporting you for h where you need to get to, whether that is an automatic or better still a lovely smooth EV, and plan to get your motoring fun at other times and life doesn’t seem quite as frustrating.
You might even cut those ‘dawdlers’ (who are probably just driving at a speed that is safe for them at the time) some slack.
RSTurboPaul said:
Unreal said:
I used to do a lot of motorway driving but now it's pretty rare so it was interesting to do a few hundred miles recently and compare it to how it used to be.
I was surprised by the number of people adhering strictly to the limit. On the surface this would seem like a good thing but it leads to glacial overtakes and very frustrated faster drivers. I found this a complete contrast to my previous experience where the range of speeds was much wider. Impossible to tell if people are being antagonistic or just unaware but cooperation seemed in pretty short supply.
'They' claim low speed differentials are safer and reduce accidents / the impact of accidents, but as you note, it makes no sense because passing someone at a 0.1mph higher speed means a massively longer TED - and that's not to mention average speed cameras in roadworks causing people to unthinkingly drift along next to each other (and 44 tonne lorries) for miles. I was surprised by the number of people adhering strictly to the limit. On the surface this would seem like a good thing but it leads to glacial overtakes and very frustrated faster drivers. I found this a complete contrast to my previous experience where the range of speeds was much wider. Impossible to tell if people are being antagonistic or just unaware but cooperation seemed in pretty short supply.
Arguably it has also contributed to the shocking lack of lane discipline - I am sure that 'in the old days' the much slower traffic pulled in quickly because they knew they were slower and that faster cars were looking to make progress, but now 'Well, I'm doing 70' is the mindset and people travelling quicker on the safest roads in the land are labelled as maniacs.
It's also boring as hell staring at the same few cars for ages if one is looking to make progress where safe to do so, meaning less attention gets paid to the road and road environment after a while. I recall a comment in evo magazine (IIRC) that in the US with traffic that ends up one multi-lane stream at the same speed, it ends up feeling like the road is moving below you rather than the vehicles moving.
[/shakes fist at cloud]
Should we realise that road driving is a lost cause? Drift along semi-alert with the masses instead? Enthusiasts are really dinosaurs who need to grasp reality?
Ironically dawdlers and middle lane morons may be doing us a favour. Forcing the issue so that we all accept that cars should be characterless commodities, ideally with the driver being taken out the equation altogether (fully autonomy).
What a grim prospect
bigothunter said:
RSTurboPaul said:
Unreal said:
I used to do a lot of motorway driving but now it's pretty rare so it was interesting to do a few hundred miles recently and compare it to how it used to be.
I was surprised by the number of people adhering strictly to the limit. On the surface this would seem like a good thing but it leads to glacial overtakes and very frustrated faster drivers. I found this a complete contrast to my previous experience where the range of speeds was much wider. Impossible to tell if people are being antagonistic or just unaware but cooperation seemed in pretty short supply.
'They' claim low speed differentials are safer and reduce accidents / the impact of accidents, but as you note, it makes no sense because passing someone at a 0.1mph higher speed means a massively longer TED - and that's not to mention average speed cameras in roadworks causing people to unthinkingly drift along next to each other (and 44 tonne lorries) for miles. I was surprised by the number of people adhering strictly to the limit. On the surface this would seem like a good thing but it leads to glacial overtakes and very frustrated faster drivers. I found this a complete contrast to my previous experience where the range of speeds was much wider. Impossible to tell if people are being antagonistic or just unaware but cooperation seemed in pretty short supply.
Arguably it has also contributed to the shocking lack of lane discipline - I am sure that 'in the old days' the much slower traffic pulled in quickly because they knew they were slower and that faster cars were looking to make progress, but now 'Well, I'm doing 70' is the mindset and people travelling quicker on the safest roads in the land are labelled as maniacs.
It's also boring as hell staring at the same few cars for ages if one is looking to make progress where safe to do so, meaning less attention gets paid to the road and road environment after a while. I recall a comment in evo magazine (IIRC) that in the US with traffic that ends up one multi-lane stream at the same speed, it ends up feeling like the road is moving below you rather than the vehicles moving.
[/shakes fist at cloud]
Should we realise that road driving is a lost cause? Drift along semi-alert with the masses instead? Enthusiasts are really dinosaurs who need to grasp reality?
Ironically dawdlers and middle lane morons may be doing us a favour. Forcing the issue so that we all accept that cars should be characterless commodities, ideally with the driver being taken out the equation altogether (fully autonomy).
What a grim prospect
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff