RE: Volvo has built its last-ever diesel car
Discussion
flight147z said:
I do not understand the demonisation of diesel. It's great in the right vehicle doing the right sort of drives (50+ miles in large SUV) and terrible in other cars that all had diesels stuck in them between 2008 and 2014 (Audi A1 doing a 5 mile trip). A shame that diesel is being taken away for those (like me) that really benefit from them 
Exactly this. An unpopular opinion. But we should rapidly phase out any pre Euro 6 diesel. Especially the Astra and Zafira! Then heavy fines for altering emission control hardware. Japan had it right with the K car for suburban vehicles. Not how we encouraged Doris to get in a diesel to go to Asda. I have never had DPF issues for my last three diesels as the car does motorway miles. It’s all about the right tool for the job. Edited by PT1984 on Sunday 31st March 22:39
PT1984 said:
Exactly this. An unpopular opinion. But we should rapidly phase out any pre Euro 6 diesel. Especially the Astra and Zafira! Then heavy fines for altering emission control hardware. Japan had it right with the K car for suburban vehicles. Not how we encouraged Doris to get in a diesel to go to Asda. I have never had DPF issues for my last three diesels as the car does motorway miles. It’s all about the right tool for the job.
Unfortunately anything pre-Euro 6d is likely to be churning out several times the emissions it should.
The cull needs to include Euro 6 as well.
GT9 said:
PT1984 said:
Exactly this. An unpopular opinion. But we should rapidly phase out any pre Euro 6 diesel. Especially the Astra and Zafira! Then heavy fines for altering emission control hardware. Japan had it right with the K car for suburban vehicles. Not how we encouraged Doris to get in a diesel to go to Asda. I have never had DPF issues for my last three diesels as the car does motorway miles. It’s all about the right tool for the job.
Unfortunately anything pre-Euro 6d is likely to be churning out several times the emissions it should.
The cull needs to include Euro 6 as well.
For me, it's about what will do the job I need for a reasonable price and be reliable. I have done 3,000kms in the last three weeks, all towing 2 tonnes, and I'm afraid no EV wil do that. I have a V8 and V6 tdi, both do high kms and often over 1,500 in a week. I'm afriad there is no EV out there that can do what I want and the charging points are simply not there. And when you get to them, I have to wait as there are usually 2-3 others before me. Been afew fights I hear as people lose their rag and take it out on others or barge in.
So for me, until I can get an EV that tows, does at least 800kms from a charge whilst doing it, and I can "refill" in 5 mins as I can my TDI, I can't get one. I simply don't see the point of a 1,000 horse power EV which can't tow and doesn't do the trips I need. As others have said, the right engine for the right vehicle, then I don't see any issues with diesels. One has done over 200,000kms, same DPF, same EGR, same injectors, not one thing wrong. I do long trips, thrash it like hell and it loves it. And no bunnies were hurt in the process I'm told!
So for me, until I can get an EV that tows, does at least 800kms from a charge whilst doing it, and I can "refill" in 5 mins as I can my TDI, I can't get one. I simply don't see the point of a 1,000 horse power EV which can't tow and doesn't do the trips I need. As others have said, the right engine for the right vehicle, then I don't see any issues with diesels. One has done over 200,000kms, same DPF, same EGR, same injectors, not one thing wrong. I do long trips, thrash it like hell and it loves it. And no bunnies were hurt in the process I'm told!
Twinair said:
Previously ‘Diesel’ was the beacon to save us all…
Diesel was never touted as such, it merely profited from a fiscal regime which looked at CO2 (on which diesel looked good) and nothing else. There should have been a loading for NOx or a specific penalty for diesel, but there wasn’t. It was just judged on the same basis as petrol cars despite being filthy in ways they are not. Of course, there would have been a lot of moaning round these parts if Blair and Brown had blocked the diesel route out of gutless little petrol s
tbox hell. flight147z said:
GT9 said:
PT1984 said:
Exactly this. An unpopular opinion. But we should rapidly phase out any pre Euro 6 diesel. Especially the Astra and Zafira! Then heavy fines for altering emission control hardware. Japan had it right with the K car for suburban vehicles. Not how we encouraged Doris to get in a diesel to go to Asda. I have never had DPF issues for my last three diesels as the car does motorway miles. It’s all about the right tool for the job.
Unfortunately anything pre-Euro 6d is likely to be churning out several times the emissions it should.
The cull needs to include Euro 6 as well.
It’s the pre DPF cancer boxes, especially the ones that you can see puff out black clouds, that absolutely should go.
PT1984 said:
flight147z said:
GT9 said:
PT1984 said:
Exactly this. An unpopular opinion. But we should rapidly phase out any pre Euro 6 diesel. Especially the Astra and Zafira! Then heavy fines for altering emission control hardware. Japan had it right with the K car for suburban vehicles. Not how we encouraged Doris to get in a diesel to go to Asda. I have never had DPF issues for my last three diesels as the car does motorway miles. It’s all about the right tool for the job.
Unfortunately anything pre-Euro 6d is likely to be churning out several times the emissions it should.
The cull needs to include Euro 6 as well.
It’s the pre DPF cancer boxes, especially the ones that you can see puff out black clouds, that absolutely should go.
Nomme de Plum said:
Some of us aren't automatons that can drive for 10 hours non stop and wouldn't even if we could.
Depends what one is towing. Stuff with the aerodynamics of a large garden shed, absolutely not but trailers and dinghies/boats fine.
By 2035 those battery powered trailers will be available so all good.
Who mentioned 10 hours? Is there a well-priced EV estate that can even do 3 hours of constant driving at 80mph without needing a full charge?Depends what one is towing. Stuff with the aerodynamics of a large garden shed, absolutely not but trailers and dinghies/boats fine.
By 2035 those battery powered trailers will be available so all good.
Diesels certainly are not for everyone and unfortunately way too many were sold to people who shouldn't have had one. A diesel fiesta should never have been a thing. But they still work for some of us especially in larger estate cars.
123RY said:
Nomme de Plum said:
Some of us aren't automatons that can drive for 10 hours non stop and wouldn't even if we could.
Depends what one is towing. Stuff with the aerodynamics of a large garden shed, absolutely not but trailers and dinghies/boats fine.
By 2035 those battery powered trailers will be available so all good.
Who mentioned 10 hours? Is there a well-priced EV estate that can even do 3 hours of constant driving at 80mph without needing a full charge?Depends what one is towing. Stuff with the aerodynamics of a large garden shed, absolutely not but trailers and dinghies/boats fine.
By 2035 those battery powered trailers will be available so all good.
Diesels certainly are not for everyone and unfortunately way too many were sold to people who shouldn't have had one. A diesel fiesta should never have been a thing. But they still work for some of us especially in larger estate cars.
We have a national speed limit of 70mph so 80 mph is irrelevant in the context of journey times.
You can keep whatever your preferred car is for as long as you wish and even buy a new one in 2035. So it will be 2045 before you even need to consider EV.
PT1984 said:
Looks to be 118 mg/km of NOx emissions, and 146 mg/km of THC + NOx emissions.
Euro 6 cars, on average, missed the NOx limit just as badly as Euro 5.It's only after 2022 when Euro 6d was introduced that the actual Euro 6 NOx targets were anywhere near being met.
https://www.fleetnews.co.uk/news/fleet-industry-ne...
This study of hundreds of cars from all manufacturers shows the average conformity factor for Euro 6 diesels:
https://theicct.org/publication/road-tested-compar...
The real world emissions were measured to be, on average, 5 times higher than the 80 mg/km limit.
Some cars were much worse (Renault for example), some better.
Note also that average conformity to CO2 targets was also above 1.
Once this data became widely distributed, and further testing was done with similar outcomes, in Scotland for example, the cat was well and truly out of the bag.
The rest is history.
Edited by GT9 on Monday 1st April 09:20
Gordon Hill said:
Yes, wouldn't have one under those circumstances. Grandchildren like going to the coast so for me it makes more sense as I do the miles. Did you have a 4 cylinder? My 6 cylinder Merc is quite serene once it's up to working temperature.
Haha, I daily a 330d (and have had opportunity to drive both Ingenium and OM656 equipped cars) and all the above are notably rougher than just about any given petrol engine, any state, any speed. What's odd is that it took a good few months for my ears to tune into the frequencies that aggravate me, and while it comes and goes I can't not hear it once I have.
Ironically what really brought it home was driving a Volvo 2.0 I4...
But 45mpg and good daily driver-type shove, they're not things without virtue.
PT1984 said:
flight147z said:
I do not understand the demonisation of diesel. It's great in the right vehicle doing the right sort of drives (50+ miles in large SUV) and terrible in other cars that all had diesels stuck in them between 2008 and 2014 (Audi A1 doing a 5 mile trip). A shame that diesel is being taken away for those (like me) that really benefit from them
Exactly this. An unpopular opinion. But we should rapidly phase out any pre Euro 6 diesel. Especially the Astra and Zafira! Then heavy fines for altering emission control hardware. Japan had it right with the K car for suburban vehicles. Not how we encouraged Doris to get in a diesel to go to Asda. I have never had DPF issues for my last three diesels as the car does motorway miles. It’s all about the right tool for the job. Edited by PT1984 on Sunday 31st March 22:39
Nomme de Plum said:
The poster stated 650+ miles. Average journey speeds are no where near 70mph and usually under 60 so 10 hours journey time.
We have a national speed limit of 70mph so 80 mph is irrelevant in the context of journey times.
You can keep whatever your preferred car is for as long as you wish and even buy a new one in 2035. So it will be 2045 before you even need to consider EV.
Speaking for UK exclusively there. It's easy to hold 80mph in Europe as an average.We have a national speed limit of 70mph so 80 mph is irrelevant in the context of journey times.
You can keep whatever your preferred car is for as long as you wish and even buy a new one in 2035. So it will be 2045 before you even need to consider EV.
Remember this article is about the last Volvo diesel produced worldwide. Not just for the UK market.
I'm all for an EV, but they are less efficient with higher speeds and higher journey times, which is where diesel thrives.
Mouse Rat said:
PT1984 said:
flight147z said:
I do not understand the demonisation of diesel. It's great in the right vehicle doing the right sort of drives (50+ miles in large SUV) and terrible in other cars that all had diesels stuck in them between 2008 and 2014 (Audi A1 doing a 5 mile trip). A shame that diesel is being taken away for those (like me) that really benefit from them
Exactly this. An unpopular opinion. But we should rapidly phase out any pre Euro 6 diesel. Especially the Astra and Zafira! Then heavy fines for altering emission control hardware. Japan had it right with the K car for suburban vehicles. Not how we encouraged Doris to get in a diesel to go to Asda. I have never had DPF issues for my last three diesels as the car does motorway miles. It’s all about the right tool for the job. Edited by PT1984 on Sunday 31st March 22:39
123RY said:
Nomme de Plum said:
The poster stated 650+ miles. Average journey speeds are no where near 70mph and usually under 60 so 10 hours journey time.
We have a national speed limit of 70mph so 80 mph is irrelevant in the context of journey times.
You can keep whatever your preferred car is for as long as you wish and even buy a new one in 2035. So it will be 2045 before you even need to consider EV.
Speaking for UK exclusively there. It's easy to hold 80mph in Europe as an average.We have a national speed limit of 70mph so 80 mph is irrelevant in the context of journey times.
You can keep whatever your preferred car is for as long as you wish and even buy a new one in 2035. So it will be 2045 before you even need to consider EV.
Remember this article is about the last Volvo diesel produced worldwide. Not just for the UK market.
I'm all for an EV, but they are less efficient with higher speeds and higher journey times, which is where diesel thrives.
In the UK unless travelling outside normal hours averaging 80mph for an extended period is impossible.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/303443/average...
I'm not denying the benefit of a diesel engine for towing heavy loads and owners of such vehicles will be able to purchase a new one up to 2035 although it does appear sales of new pure diesel cars has dropped substantially.
Apparently battery augmented trailers are in development so who knows what the that market will look like then or how battery technology will have developed?
My D4 as said is the work vehicle. But it is of course used as needed.
For space requirements (child) we sold the (excellent) F55 Mini Cooper S. She wanted an XC40, which is a lovely space to sit. The 1.5 3 cylinder is OK for just getting around in a relaxed manner. But forget brisk overtake, and pulling out of junctions can take a while. The right car for the use case is the full EV recharge. But it’s was just too expensive when buying with personal funds.
For space requirements (child) we sold the (excellent) F55 Mini Cooper S. She wanted an XC40, which is a lovely space to sit. The 1.5 3 cylinder is OK for just getting around in a relaxed manner. But forget brisk overtake, and pulling out of junctions can take a while. The right car for the use case is the full EV recharge. But it’s was just too expensive when buying with personal funds.
768 said:
With a D4 that has multiple oil leaks and a quote from Volvo for 50% more than its value, plus any extras they find along the way, I too shall shed no tears. 112k, less than 10 years old.
I'm willing to bet that the dealer are lifting your leg. Take it somewhere else and I bet those leaks come under "want ignoring" or can be fixed for a fraction of what the dealer wants.Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff