RE: Volvo has built its last-ever diesel car

[123RY]

Nomme de Plum said:

I'd like to see your evidence that your diesel is as quiet as an EV at 80mph. EV aerodynamics are much better sorted and wind noise is not intrusive. Even road noise is being engineered out.

If a diesel works better for you now that is fine. 2035 is over a decade away and used cars will be available for another 10-15 years. We can reasonably assume the EVs of 2040/2050 will be more efficient than they are now with much longer range. Having said that for well over 90% of the population the new cars available today are fine.

New cars as a whole have better aerodynamics. But yes the EV specific ones are better still. But it's only marginal gains now in terms of quietness inside the cabin. My Audi A4 has a decently low CD with double glazing. At 80mph the engine is running at 1800rpm. It's very quiet and testament to that is that I do easily do over 10 hours drive in one go and still feel refreshed at the end. This is not the case in some other cars that I had the displeasure to do long journeys in!
I've also been lucky enough to spend time in some other very special places. I had an S65 AMG which was literally whisper quiet at even very high speeds (autobahn). I've also been in an audi RS etron which was a phenomenal car but honestly not significantly quieter/smoother than some of the better ICE cars.

[Majorslow]

Tyres are what make cars loud. I suspect an EV on 20 inch wheels makes more noise than an old mini on 13 inch rims

[Nomme de Plum]

123RY said:

CLK-GTR said:

When i lived there i could easily spend the entire day at 130km/h+ whilst crossing countries. Lots of Europeans like to drive on holiday rather than fly and will think nothing of spending a full day driving. I think trying to be everything to everybody is the wrong direction and introduces compromises across the board. Many people run 2 cars now, we could be building practical, cheap, lightweight EVs for commuting to clean up the cities and use a better fuel source for everything else.

Perfectly said.
Driving yourself and family with luggage is far better for emissions than flying too.

All very interesting but motor manufacturers want to sell cars in quantity and however you wrap it up Europe is not massively different to the UK

This indicates that annual mileages do not support that people are doing loads of long journeys.

https://www.odyssee-mure.eu/publications/efficienc...

[Nomme de Plum]

123RY said:

New cars as a whole have better aerodynamics. But yes the EV specific ones are better still. But it's only marginal gains now in terms of quietness inside the cabin. My Audi A4 has a decently low CD with double glazing. At 80mph the engine is running at 1800rpm. It's very quiet and testament to that is that I do easily do over 10 hours drive in one go and still feel refreshed at the end. This is not the case in some other cars that I had the displeasure to do long journeys in!
I've also been lucky enough to spend time in some other very special places. I had an S65 AMG which was literally whisper quiet at even very high speeds (autobahn). I've also been in an audi RS etron which was a phenomenal car but honestly not significantly quieter/smoother than some of the better ICE cars.

ICE cars have had well over 100 years to get efficient and quiet. EVs are really in the first couple of decades of development. My Taycan was eerily quiet even at very high speed. Certainly quieter than any of the diesels I've owned. I'm expecting newer design EVs to be even quieter.

[Nomme de Plum]

Majorslow said:

Tyres are what make cars loud. I suspect an EV on 20 inch wheels makes more noise than an old mini on 13 inch rims

I had a Mini on 10" rims. It was noisy as hell.

[123RY]

Nomme de Plum said:

All very interesting but motor manufacturers want to sell cars in quantity and however you wrap it up Europe is not massively different to the UK

This indicates that annual mileages do not support that people are doing loads of long journeys.

https://www.odyssee-mure.eu/publications/efficienc...

While the general trend is a decrease, in countries like Germany, Austria, Spain and Netherlands, it was only ever so slightly. - to a point it was no marked difference. Including data from 2020 and 2021 is irrelevant, for quite obvious reasons.

From the data I cannot see if it is due to less longer journeys. After all, are they not still doing lots of longer journeys but just less shorter journeys by car due to using other means of transport ie commuting by bike (which has improved vastly in the EU), bus etc.

[123RY]

Nomme de Plum said:

ICE cars have had well over 100 years to get efficient and quiet. EVs are really in the first couple of decades of development. My Taycan was eerily quiet even at very high speed. Certainly quieter than any of the diesels I've owned. I'm expecting newer design EVs to be even quieter.

Yes but EVs are benefitting from those 100 years of CAR development too. Put an EV drivetrain in a 70s beetle and it won't be quiet.

While they may get marginally quieter, I doubt you would find my S65, or even my A4, lacking sufficiently to bother you. And honestly, if you did, you'd just be being obtuse or overly picky.
A fiesta diesel at 80mph and you have a point. But that's something that shouldn't exist.

Edited by 123RY on Wednesday 3rd April 18:33

[Nomme de Plum]

123RY said:

Nomme de Plum said:

ICE cars have had well over 100 years to get efficient and quiet. EVs are really in the first couple of decades of development. My Taycan was eerily quiet even at very high speed. Certainly quieter than any of the diesels I've owned. I'm expecting newer design EVs to be even quieter.

Yes but EVs are benefitting from those 100 years of CAR development too. Put an EV drivetrain in a 70s beetle and it won't be quiet.

While they may get marginally quieter, I doubt you would find my S65, or even my A4, lacking sufficiently to bother you. And honestly, if you did, you'd just be being obtuse or overly picky.
A fiesta diesel at 80mph and you have a point. But that's something that shouldn't exist.

Edited by 123RY on Wednesday 3rd April 18:33

I understand your point but most people aren't driving S65s or similar. Car sales numbers generally congregate toward smaller cars. Additionally of the 7.3M car trades in the UK only 1.9M are new and of those 54% are fleet/company related. So 5.5 M cars changing hands are from the used fleet.

Now Volvo are largely Chinese owned they will decide the direction of travel and the future for the brand.

[gazza285]

Nomme de Plum said:

I had a Mini on 10" rims. It was noisy as hell.

Rather prone to gearbox whine though.

[911Spanker]

gazza285 said:

Rather prone to gearbox whine though.

At least it kept you awake. The biggest worry with all these quiet EVs is people will fall asleep and cause carnage.

[cerb4.5lee]

911Spanker said:

At least it kept you awake. The biggest worry with all these quiet EVs is people will fall asleep and cause carnage.

I reckon that you'd have to be half asleep to buy one in the first place to be fair!

[MrTrilby]

123RY said:

300bhp from a boosted 4-pot pulling in a 2.1tonne estate is definitely meagre. V90 T8s weigh more than an RS6.
I have. An XC60 T8. It was a 2020 so the 400bhp version. Quick in town but dreadful over distance and didn't see over 28mpg on a decent run. Strained on a long distance run at speed is definitely accurate.

You should try the latest version. Ours is the latest one with the bigger electric motor, and you’ve just demonstrated how much better it is. Ours sees 40 - 48mpg on a 200+ mile round trip, and will quite happily do sub 5 second 0-60 even at the end of that trip when the battery is nominally flat (hint: it isn’t really completely flat). It’ll pull strongly way past any legal limit and makes overtaking a breeze. Strained it is not.

By comparison our previous diesel SUV managed similar MPG but wasn’t even close to being as quick or feeling as quick.

And funny you should mention the RS6 - having driven both I much prefer the Volvo - it’s so much more refined and quiet on a long journey.

[autumnsum]

911Spanker said:

gazza285 said:

Rather prone to gearbox whine though.

At least it kept you awake. The biggest worry with all these quiet EVs is people will fall asleep and cause carnage.

New EV bingo unlocked.

[123RY]

MrTrilby said:

You should try the latest version. Ours is the latest one with the bigger electric motor, and you’ve just demonstrated how much better it is. Ours sees 40 - 48mpg on a 200+ mile round trip, and will quite happily do sub 5 second 0-60 even at the end of that trip when the battery is nominally flat (hint: it isn’t really completely flat). It’ll pull strongly way past any legal limit and makes overtaking a breeze. Strained it is not.

By comparison our previous diesel SUV managed similar MPG but wasn’t even close to being as quick or feeling as quick.

And funny you should mention the RS6 - having driven both I much prefer the Volvo - it’s so much more refined and quiet on a long journey.

I am sure the newer version is significantly better and glad the electric range is finally decent as it was a little tragic in the previous version.

However, my diesel A4 with a 5sec 0-60, 50mpg on a 600mile trip and no limited top speed (autobahn) does the job just fine. Not sure where the improvement would be at quite the price hike for my needs.

And if my mileage was any lower, an RS6 would certainly be my choice, but I've scratched that itch. They're built like a tank and fantastically refined when not "on it".

[pheonix478]

[quote=123RY]
...
A fiesta diesel at 80mph and you have a point. But that's something that shouldn't exist.

There's something we can all agree on.

[otolith]

RS6 has a terrible reputation for ruinously expensive upkeep - what’s the bork like on the Volvo?

Did briefly consider a Mercedes PHEV, but was getting rid of a V6 diesel Merc which had been an unreliable money pit, and didn’t fancy giving Mercedes a whole second drivetrain’s worth of stuff to fk up.

[MrTrilby]

otolith said:

RS6 has a terrible reputation for ruinously expensive upkeep - what’s the bork like on the Volvo?

Did briefly consider a Mercedes PHEV, but was getting rid of a V6 diesel Merc which had been an unreliable money pit, and didn’t fancy giving Mercedes a whole second drivetrain’s worth of stuff to fk up.

I don’t really know. The previous version of the drivetrain had a bit of a history for the rear EV motor/gearbox failing, supposedly fixed with the revised uprated unit they now fit. But possibly too early to tell. And there were also issues with the auxiliary electric heater failing, again hopefully fixed. I’ve not seen anyone complaining of issues with batteries/inverter/charger.

Our previous (diesel) Volvo felt and was bullet proof, and this one feels the same.

[ajap1979]

911Spanker said:

gazza285 said:

Rather prone to gearbox whine though.

At least it kept you awake. The biggest worry with all these quiet EVs is people will fall asleep and cause carnage.

Don’t forget Audi A4s

[740EVTORQUES]

MrTrilby said:

otolith said:

RS6 has a terrible reputation for ruinously expensive upkeep - what’s the bork like on the Volvo?

Did briefly consider a Mercedes PHEV, but was getting rid of a V6 diesel Merc which had been an unreliable money pit, and didn’t fancy giving Mercedes a whole second drivetrain’s worth of stuff to fk up.

I don’t really know. The previous version of the drivetrain had a bit of a history for the rear EV motor/gearbox failing, supposedly fixed with the revised uprated unit they now fit. But possibly too early to tell. And there were also issues with the auxiliary electric heater failing, again hopefully fixed. I’ve not seen anyone complaining of issues with batteries/inverter/charger.

Our previous (diesel) Volvo felt and was bullet proof, and this one feels the same.

Chris Harris reckoned the Ionic 5N was more capable than an RS6… (6:32 in the video)

https://youtu.be/TcbsW_mvNh8?si=xVVwQc_yZVmQjfDp

[CLK-GTR]

otolith said:

RS6 has a terrible reputation for ruinously expensive upkeep - what’s the bork like on the Volvo?

Did briefly consider a Mercedes PHEV, but was getting rid of a V6 diesel Merc which had been an unreliable money pit, and didn’t fancy giving Mercedes a whole second drivetrain’s worth of stuff to fk up.

RS6 upkeep is about what you'd expect from the power and sticker price. Probably less when you consider what it's rivals are like. The V90 T8 is not the kind of car.

740EVTORQUES said:

Chris Harris reckoned the Ionic 5N was more capable than an RS6… (6:32 in the video)

https://youtu.be/TcbsW_mvNh8?si=xVVwQc_yZVmQjfDp

They look like brilliant cars but it's an odd comparison, they are in totally different categories. Nobody is cross shopping the two. Still it's nice to see interesting EVs coming out.