RE: Lotus breaks sales record, posts £594m loss

[D4rez]

suffolk009 said:

I completely fail to understand Geeley's desire to make Lotus "all electric".

If you’re investing a next generation of cars to sell over the next 10 years you’d be daft to invest in ICE is why. They didn’t have a lot of legacy engines like other brands that meet future emissions standards. Why invest in a dead end

[Charlie_1]

GT9 said:

Penetraitor said:

Mmmmm, bet that will sound lovely with the top down! Like a washing machine on spin cycle?

Yep, approximately the same sound as a turbo 4 makes, but without the fumes.
Win-win.

Actually you mean without the fun so actually a lose-lose

[24 Ecclestone Street SW1]

...it still looks like a Nissan though

[Robertb]

I'd be interested in the Secret Supercar Owner/Karenable take on these results. The analysis of car company results on that site is highly recommended.

[Frimley111R]

Robertb said:

I'd be interested in the Secret Supercar Owner/Karenable take on these results. The analysis of car company results on that site is highly recommended.

It's not complicated. They are investing hundreds of millions in the company to get it set up and operational and at this point, they are only just launching/selling new models which have cost considerable amounts to develop. It's nothing that any growing business doesn't do.

[CheesecakeRunner]

British Beef said:

I find it strange they went for the option of expensive high end electric cars (perhaps to prove up technology and create halo models), when the big money to be made is in the volume associated with more affordable electric cars.

Because Lotus are so well known in the volume affordable car market segment?

suffolk009 said:

I completely fail to understand Geeley's desire to make Lotus "all electric".

China's strategic direction for all car manufacturers for the last 25 years has been electric. They're not going to do anything else.

[heisthegaffer]

kambites said:

heisthegaffer said:

What is the funny little panel above the front wheel arch? Or is it a reflection?

I believe cameras or LIDAR sensors or something pop out from behind it. IIRC there's one on the roof which makes it look like a taxi when extended, too.

Thanks

[ntiz]

Robertb said:

I'd be interested in the Secret Supercar Owner/Karenable take on these results. The analysis of car company results on that site is highly recommended.

Lance Stroll Sr must have a hit squad out on him by now

[86wasagoodyear]

Frimley111R said:

pycraft said:

bigaoi said:

Yes, I think for everyone's sanity they are indeed best regarded as two separate, or at least, very loosely-related companies. We'd hope the SUVs prop-up the sports-car division, but they may just kill the uprofitable one, one day. Having said all that, Volvo do indeed seem to be doing well. It depends on whether the owners actually have an interest in making sports cars.

Edited by bigaoi on Monday 8th April 17:22

I don't think so. The sports cars are the halo that defines the brand; it's a loss leader.

Consider Porsche. Last year it sold 50,146 911s and 20,518 718s (Boxster and Cayman combined). So a smidge over 70,00 sportscars. In the same time it sold 87,533 Cayennes, 87,355 Macans, and 74,649 saloons (Panameras and Taycans), totalling 249,537. Making total sports car sales 22% of the total, in a year when Panamera sales were down due to a replacement model being on the way - this year it'd probably be nearer 20%.

Someone once said that Porsche's greatest achievement is turning into an SUV company whilst still convincing the world it's a sportscar company, which is I'm sure where Geely are trying to pitch it. But that will require the world to still think Lotus is a sportscar company.

Yep. The sports cars will be the halo cars for the brand (as, tbh, they always have been). Geely have no intention of killing them off, that would be a really poor decision and, indeed, they are working on new sports cars right now. I do wonder if the Emira will have a longer life than planned due to the kick back on EVs currently.

I wonder if the Lotus plan includes doing some actual sport with their sports cars ?
If emulating Porsche really is the Lotus plan, then they'd better get on with a single-marque series, get into the WEC including Le Mans with a GTE Emira.. etc etc.. You can't move for Porsche in motorsport - which keeps the sports car believers believing.
I'd love to see it with Lotus too - but it's not happening.
Therefore I don't think they're out to copy Porsche at all, keeping halo sports cars. I think they really are going to go all-electric, and end up killing off the inevitably unprofitable UK-based sports car business. Desperately hoping to be proved wrong.

[Frimley111R]

British Beef said:

I find it strange they went for the option of expensive high end electric cars (perhaps to prove up technology and create halo models), when the big money to be made is in the volume associated with more affordable electric cars.

I think Lotus needs to make a "Tesla model 3" type alternative and at that price point to get close to those rather lofty sales targets.

Lotus is a premium brand manufacturer and that means bigger profits per vehicle. People pay for the brand name. No-one really wants to be lower down in the market place where you need huge economies of scale and massive sales to gain big profits.

There's a reason you don't see a Lambo/Ferrari/Aston/RR/Bentley/Porsche etc going downmarket. And a reason why mainstream manufacturers try to create premium brands (Lexus/Infinity/Genesis/etc).

[Shaoxter]

SDK said:

Lotus sold just 576 cars in 2022, so already then are well up ! (12x)

Is that a real stat?

[Jurdy]

They will end up making mobility scooters. Emerging markets will lap up the latest wierd looking offerings and then they'll come back here super cheap to compete with MG. I really worry about Lotus.

[fortfive]

So many carping comments adding to those on these forums about JLR, Mclaren, Aston, Morgan MG etc..

So WELL DONE Lotus and Geely for saving a company heading for extinction. massive investment should pay off long term. Typically no UK firm or people were prepared to put a penny into Lotus for years which is why everything is overseas owned now. .

Edited by fortfive on Wednesday 10th April 11:34

[Frimley111R]

fortfive said:

So many carping comments adding to those on these forums about JLR, Mclaren, Aston, Morgan MG etc..

So WELL DONE Lotus and Geely for saving a company heading for extinction. massive investment should pay off long term. Typically no UK firm or people were prepared to put a penny into Lotus for years which is why everything is overseas owned now. .

Edited by fortfive on Wednesday 10th April 11:34

To be fair to the UK companies, Geely are a huge global automotive company that can leverage tech across brands. No UK company has ever had this ability.

[blue al]

Shaoxter said:

SDK said:

Lotus sold just 576 cars in 2022, so already then are well up ! (12x)

Is that a real stat?

Stopped selling Elise Exige and Evora looked expensive against the “promised price” of a baby McLaren…with a cheaper AMG version just round the corner.

Also…
Stripping out a load of old tooling for new kit in the factory, setting up new space in Warwickshire.

I’m not surprised if that is fact….they done well to sell that many

[Frimley111R]

blue al said:

Shaoxter said:

SDK said:

Lotus sold just 576 cars in 2022, so already then are well up ! (12x)

Is that a real stat?

Stopped selling Elise Exige and Evora looked expensive against the “promised price” of a baby McLaren…with a cheaper AMG version just round the corner.

Also…
Stripping out a load of old tooling for new kit in the factory, setting up new space in Warwickshire.

I’m not surprised if that is fact….they did well to sell that many

Yep, the multiple only looks great when compared to selling off the last of the older vehicles. The interesting figs will be the future multiples but one CEO of Lotus did say, in the past, that Lotus could sell more simply by having more showrooms.

[BertBert]

86wasagoodyear said:

I wonder if the Lotus plan includes doing some actual sport with their sports cars ?
If emulating Porsche really is the Lotus plan, then they'd better get on with a single-marque series, get into the WEC including Le Mans with a GTE Emira.. etc etc.. You can't move for Porsche in motorsport - which keeps the sports car believers believing.
I'd love to see it with Lotus too - but it's not happening.
Therefore I don't think they're out to copy Porsche at all, keeping halo sports cars. I think they really are going to go all-electric, and end up killing off the inevitably unprofitable UK-based sports car business. Desperately hoping to be proved wrong.

Do you mean in addition to the Emira GT4 race car?

[kambites]

86wasagoodyear said:

I wonder if the Lotus plan includes doing some actual sport with their sports cars ?
If emulating Porsche really is the Lotus plan, then they'd better get on with a single-marque series, get into the WEC including Le Mans with a GTE Emira.. etc etc.. You can't move for Porsche in motorsport - which keeps the sports car believers believing.
I'd love to see it with Lotus too - but it's not happening.
Therefore I don't think they're out to copy Porsche at all, keeping halo sports cars. I think they really are going to go all-electric, and end up killing off the inevitably unprofitable UK-based sports car business. Desperately hoping to be proved wrong.

What's the dominant form of motorsport in China? F1 I guess with Zhou Guanyu but do they have any local GT type series?

[nismo48]

fortfive said:

So many carping comments adding to those on these forums about JLR, Mclaren, Aston, Morgan MG etc..

So WELL DONE Lotus and Geely for saving a company heading for extinction. massive investment should pay off long term. Typically no UK firm or people were prepared to put a penny into Lotus for years which is why everything is overseas owned now. .

Edited by fortfive on Wednesday 10th April 11:34

+1

[Frimley111R]

BertBert said:

86wasagoodyear said:

I wonder if the Lotus plan includes doing some actual sport with their sports cars ?
If emulating Porsche really is the Lotus plan, then they'd better get on with a single-marque series, get into the WEC including Le Mans with a GTE Emira.. etc etc.. You can't move for Porsche in motorsport - which keeps the sports car believers believing.
I'd love to see it with Lotus too - but it's not happening.
Therefore I don't think they're out to copy Porsche at all, keeping halo sports cars. I think they really are going to go all-electric, and end up killing off the inevitably unprofitable UK-based sports car business. Desperately hoping to be proved wrong.

Do you mean in addition to the Emira GT4 race car?

I think that motorsports assists a brand but Lotus is already well known, however long ago, for having a successful F1 team. However, far more important is the look and quality of their road cars to 99% of buyers.

They aren't copying Porsche, just following the same strategy as them. And Ferrari and Lambo and Aston etc.