RE: Lotus breaks sales record, posts £594m loss
Discussion
komakino said:
I can't see the numbers ever adding up here, as they will never sell enough cars to break even, let alone to make a profit. Such a shame.
Fortunately, a company with a few billion dollars can see how they will. They will be selling premium EV saloons, SUVs and sports cars globally. Those figures are pretty conservative.Here’s a thought. Perhaps Lotus moving on is a good thing.
They had been squatting like a toad on the lightweight sports car market with the 111 platform for the best part of 25 years. I’ve owned my Elise for over 15 years, and I haven’t replaced it because they haven’t substantially improved on it since. Some people are still sitting on Elise S1s from the 90’s for the same reason (ok, they’re a bit delusional
)
They saw off the Caterham and Renault rivals and have been resting on their laurels ever since. A big cosmetic restyle for the S2 and a bit of tweaking since, a few engine options. More power, but nothing revolutionary. V6 Exige spin-off, Europa weirdness, VX220 for S2 beta testers. All the same basic architecture, and increasingly lightness through being small and basic rather than through the tech being superior. The Emira uses the same technology and it’s as heavy as a modern pressed steel and aluminium monocoque.
Maybe it’s time someone else has a crack at it? The lightweight Caterham EV could do with not going head to head with Lotus. Maybe Alpine will feel empowered to be more extreme rather than trying to make Lotus-Lux or Pork-Lite?
They had been squatting like a toad on the lightweight sports car market with the 111 platform for the best part of 25 years. I’ve owned my Elise for over 15 years, and I haven’t replaced it because they haven’t substantially improved on it since. Some people are still sitting on Elise S1s from the 90’s for the same reason (ok, they’re a bit delusional
) They saw off the Caterham and Renault rivals and have been resting on their laurels ever since. A big cosmetic restyle for the S2 and a bit of tweaking since, a few engine options. More power, but nothing revolutionary. V6 Exige spin-off, Europa weirdness, VX220 for S2 beta testers. All the same basic architecture, and increasingly lightness through being small and basic rather than through the tech being superior. The Emira uses the same technology and it’s as heavy as a modern pressed steel and aluminium monocoque.
Maybe it’s time someone else has a crack at it? The lightweight Caterham EV could do with not going head to head with Lotus. Maybe Alpine will feel empowered to be more extreme rather than trying to make Lotus-Lux or Pork-Lite?
Frimley111R said:
It's not really a very tempting proposition for any decent sized car manufacturer though is it? A highly focussed car with a tiny pool of potential buyers that, if you can get sales figures up, soon becomes saddled by having to conform to all sorts of regulations.
Even harder though, if you have to compete against a big name with an income stream from consulting and a stream of sugar daddies letting them trade at a loss. Lotus looking at moving it's design studio from Hethel to it's new design base in Warwick. They recently announced further Norfolk job cuts, I wonder what the future holds for Lotus Cars in the UK. Investment in Lotus Tech and Lotus Engineering, but cuts to Lotus Cars isn't great. Hopefully they continue with sports cars off the back of the big EVs.
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/business-manufa...
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/business-manufa...
Silvanus said:
Lotus looking at moving it's design studio from Hethel to it's new design base in Warwick. They recently announced further Norfolk job cuts, I wonder what the future holds for Lotus Cars in the UK. Investment in Lotus Tech and Lotus Engineering, but cuts to Lotus Cars isn't great. Hopefully, they continue with sports cars off the back of the big EVs.
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/business-manufa...
It sounds fairly sensible really, put all the styling team in one new facility/ design HQ rather than have them spread over 2 locations.https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/business-manufa...
Sports cars are as important to Lotus as they are to Porsche.
With so much going on at Lotus there are always likely to be minor job cuts and changes.
Plus, a desk in Warwick can pick from the largest pool of skilled labour in the U.K. within bearable commute. Norfolk? Not so much.
But the assembly side in Norfolk should be OK while they're still selling the ICE cars but probably not much after that and we can expect repeated demands for taxpayer money over the next decade to not move it overseas.
But the assembly side in Norfolk should be OK while they're still selling the ICE cars but probably not much after that and we can expect repeated demands for taxpayer money over the next decade to not move it overseas.
vikingaero said:
They've probably spent most of that loss with YouTube. Every time I watch a video, there's that bloody yellow Eletre SUV ad playing. I must have watched it 999,999 times and still think it's awful.
At least they've gone for the cheaper option that allows the skip after just 5 seconds. 
Most of the loss will just be capex on getting the new models out and it looks like a large chunk of the cash came from the SPAC listing. Lotus has pretty much been a pre revenue start up for the last 30 years but does look like it could finally be about to start selling cars over the next 24 months and generating revenue!! Sadly, as per usual they're hideously late to the party and an awful lot of the new middle class Chinese buyers they were aiming to sell to have lost everything in the casino over the last 4 years.
Frimley111R said:
Silvanus said:
Lotus looking at moving it's design studio from Hethel to it's new design base in Warwick. They recently announced further Norfolk job cuts, I wonder what the future holds for Lotus Cars in the UK. Investment in Lotus Tech and Lotus Engineering, but cuts to Lotus Cars isn't great. Hopefully, they continue with sports cars off the back of the big EVs.
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/business-manufa...
It sounds fairly sensible really, put all the styling team in one new facility/ design HQ rather than have them spread over 2 locations.https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/business-manufa...
Sports cars are as important to Lotus as they are to Porsche.
With so much going on at Lotus there are always likely to be minor job cuts and changes.
As for sports cars, I'm not sure they are as important to Lotus as they are to Porsche. It would be much easier for Lotus to ditch potentially loss making sports cars, now Lotus is three separate companies.
Surely there must be a market for a 2 seater BEV sports car. With the brand like Lotus behind it it seems odd that they're only concentrating on c£100k cars.
If BMW can get 200 miles from an i3 at around 1300kg would it be that hard to get a similar range into a small sports car? 200bhp, 200 miles little 2 seater. Would that not be a winner?
If BMW can get 200 miles from an i3 at around 1300kg would it be that hard to get a similar range into a small sports car? 200bhp, 200 miles little 2 seater. Would that not be a winner?
Dixie said:
Surely there must be a market for a 2 seater BEV sports car. With the brand like Lotus behind it it seems odd that they're only concentrating on c£100k cars.
If BMW can get 200 miles from an i3 at around 1300kg would it be that hard to get a similar range into a small sports car? 200bhp, 200 miles little 2 seater. Would that not be a winner?
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/lotus-elise-successor-arrive-2027-%C2%A375000If BMW can get 200 miles from an i3 at around 1300kg would it be that hard to get a similar range into a small sports car? 200bhp, 200 miles little 2 seater. Would that not be a winner?
But they don't want to sell at the cheap end of the market.
Dixie said:
Surely there must be a market for a 2 seater BEV sports car. With the brand like Lotus behind it it seems odd that they're only concentrating on c£100k cars.
If BMW can get 200 miles from an i3 at around 1300kg would it be that hard to get a similar range into a small sports car? 200bhp, 200 miles little 2 seater. Would that not be a winner?
They are planning the Type 135, due supposedly in 2027, though that's gonna be upwards of £75k. They are also planning some golden eggs and a flying pig.If BMW can get 200 miles from an i3 at around 1300kg would it be that hard to get a similar range into a small sports car? 200bhp, 200 miles little 2 seater. Would that not be a winner?
Dixie said:
Surely there must be a market for a 2 seater BEV sports car. With the brand like Lotus behind it it seems odd that they're only concentrating on c£100k cars.
If BMW can get 200 miles from an i3 at around 1300kg would it be that hard to get a similar range into a small sports car? 200bhp, 200 miles little 2 seater. Would that not be a winner?
Lotus are a pioneer of not selling sports cars. They excelled for 25+ years in the specialist field of just not selling any cars to anyone. If anyone can not sell BEV sports cars, these are the guys. When someone steps up with a massive deal based around not selling sports cars, Lotus are the go to players. If BMW can get 200 miles from an i3 at around 1300kg would it be that hard to get a similar range into a small sports car? 200bhp, 200 miles little 2 seater. Would that not be a winner?
Let Porsche blaze the trail for EV sports cars. VW can spend £billions either creating the market or highlighting that it doesn't exist yet. If the former then there will be loads of space for competitors to follow.
What I am guessing Lotus will be planning next is a smaller SUV/crossover thing to job out in high numbers through Asia. They need some kind of mid level volume product knocked up in China off the back of an existing product for best economies of scale.
ntiz said:
Robertb said:
I'd be interested in the Secret Supercar Owner/Karenable take on these results. The analysis of car company results on that site is highly recommended.
Lance Stroll Sr must have a hit squad out on him by now
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