RE: Pristine, former press Ford Racing Puma for sale
Discussion
BricktopST205 said:
IIRC correctly the caliper didn't even have dust seals. I understand on a race car but on a road car it will only take 1 winter for them to be buggered.
I would always love one of these however. Where else can you realistically buy a road going F2 kit car/ S1600?
I would have to get the engine built and around 200BHP however.
Seat threatened to do it. They built a prototype Ibiza F2, which had the body panels from the rally car:I would always love one of these however. Where else can you realistically buy a road going F2 kit car/ S1600?
I would have to get the engine built and around 200BHP however.
I seem to remember reading that it was actually a bit of an unauthorised project, built by the team that ran the Ibiza rally cars in the UK, and was later destroyed at the behest of Seat themselves
NGK210 said:
Another example of a car that’s rare because nobody wanted it when new; in this instance, because it seemed like an expensive sheep in wolf’s clothing. Hmm.
Didn’t know about the engine-budget snafu.
And IIRC, the 1.7 can be troublesome but the ‘boring’ 1.6 is hassle-free and robust?
Stories like that often contribute the value of a car in the future though. Lots of cars don't do well when they're new, but become icons later. Plenty of people were cynical of the 964 RS when that came along, but look at them now. The Racing Puma is a great story of an extreme project that didn't quite work out, but still produced a fabulous (if flawed) car. It's what collectible cars are all about in many ways.Didn’t know about the engine-budget snafu.
And IIRC, the 1.7 can be troublesome but the ‘boring’ 1.6 is hassle-free and robust?
Sister had a 1.7 Puma and it was brilliant. Tatty, bits fell of the interior, the arches were like the Golden Gate bridge for rust but it was a lot of fun. I moaned for ages that 1.7s were underpriced and so nearly bought one as a spare car when you couldn't give them away before covid (Millenium editions were £1k, everything else sub £1k basically). Now look at them. Well deserved as they really are a great car (too high driving position aside).
I've only ever seen on FRP on the road and they just look so right, I'd love one but I'm not sure I want one enough to drop £25k plus on one. Still think their worth the money though as they were quite limited and very special cars.
I've only ever seen on FRP on the road and they just look so right, I'd love one but I'm not sure I want one enough to drop £25k plus on one. Still think their worth the money though as they were quite limited and very special cars.
I always loved the FRP, and when one (I think driven by a Proctor) entered the rally cross championship I was smitten. I bought a thunder edition 1.7 with the intention of buying the F2 panel kit from Birkbeck, and building a replica... but prices of genuine FRPs dropped to around £6k, so was no longer worth doing the conversion. I briefly spoke with Warner about putting an Impreza under a Puma shell which would have been fun, but costs were a bit more than just buying a Celica GT4 so I did that instead. Vastly superior car, but it wasn't a wide body puma...
Front brakes on an FRP should be swapped for Mondeo ST220 ones for real-worl maintenance issues.
Front brakes on an FRP should be swapped for Mondeo ST220 ones for real-worl maintenance issues.
200Plus Club said:
rowley birkin said:
That first signature, I am seeing a cock and balls.
Freud would probably have something to sayabout that!
The Ford Boys will lap this up though at any price, someone spunked half a million on a RS500, this is pocket change to them lol.
RedAndy said:
I always loved the FRP, and when one (I think driven by a Proctor) entered the rally cross championship I was smitten. I bought a thunder edition 1.7 with the intention of buying the F2 panel kit from Birkbeck, and building a replica... but prices of genuine FRPs dropped to around £6k, so was no longer worth doing the conversion. I briefly spoke with Warner about putting an Impreza under a Puma shell which would have been fun, but costs were a bit more than just buying a Celica GT4 so I did that instead. Vastly superior car, but it wasn't a wide body puma...
Front brakes on an FRP should be swapped for Mondeo ST220 ones for real-worl maintenance issues.
ST200? ST220 was 5 stud I think and not sure if they fit the hubs. ST170 brakes also fit, ST150 288mm is the common go-to as they fit under 15" wheels still, and they're a very cheap upgrade with no hub modification at all.Front brakes on an FRP should be swapped for Mondeo ST220 ones for real-worl maintenance issues.
DanielSan said:
200Plus Club said:
rowley birkin said:
That first signature, I am seeing a cock and balls.
Freud would probably have something to sayabout that!
The Ford Boys will lap this up though at any price, someone spunked half a million on a RS500, this is pocket change to them lol.
s m said:
That happens quite a bit with older stuff - Merc 190 EVO 2 springs to mind some time back …. Someone wades in with a MASSIVE bid way above the rest of the market
That particular RS500 was special, however, even among RS500s. If you just saw the headline figure, it would be ridiculous.However, delve down into the nitty gritty of the sheer length of originality the owner got down to; well, I'm not saying £600k is 'justified' but I also understand why two people who wanted the very best fought to the very end.
I'll copy and paste it here:
"The attention to the detail of this car's maintenance cannot be understated. Our client has impressively managed to source a supply of rare new/old stock oil filters, fuel filters etc. so, not for this car a modern oil filter of the correct type, but an original orange one that would have been supplied when new. This 'forensic' attention to originality can be illustrated by our vendor's purchase of a set of period RS 500 wheels and tyres in order that TKN's date-stamped originals can be carefully stored and not have to bear the weight of the car for prolonged periods. "
"In 2022, Tremona carried out a full re-commissioning service on E378 TKN including the replacement of engine oil and filter, spark plugs, fuel filter, cambelt and a new battery. All parts used are genuine new/old stock parts and are identical to parts fitted at the factory. The engine oil filter is a Fram PH2854, spark plugs are Motorcraft AGPR 901C and a black Weber fuel filter was fitted. All these parts have not been available for many years and have been sourced to maintain the car's originality. As mentioned, the original Dunlop D40s are on the stored wheels, the original Ford exhaust system is still in place, the factory fog lamps remain in the boot awaiting fitting by the dealers and there is a file full of history detailing the car's life."
Add in 5192 miles, the fact it's an RS500 and two RS nerds going at it. If this was a Boss 429 Mustang – arguably the closest American example in spirit if not mechanicals, if not as rare – nobody would be up in arms.
I cannot speak for the two guys in for this RS500, but at the truly high levels of marque fanatics there are rivalries, bitter rivalries. It's not unheard of for two guys to get locked into a battle just so the 'loser' will cost the 'winner' the most amount of money. A certain now-legendary Porsche-themed sale nearly a decade ago was, I'm told, based on such hatred.
NathanChadwick said:
s m said:
That happens quite a bit with older stuff - Merc 190 EVO 2 springs to mind some time back …. Someone wades in with a MASSIVE bid way above the rest of the market
That particular RS500 was special, however, even among RS500s. If you just saw the headline figure, it would be ridiculous.However, delve down into the nitty gritty of the sheer length of originality the owner got down to; well, I'm not saying £600k is 'justified' but I also understand why two people who wanted the very best fought to the very end.
Add in 5192 miles, the fact it's an RS500 and two RS nerds going at it..
martin12345 said:
I was one of those Ford Managers - the internal monthly lease on an FRP was the same as a 1.7l Puma so easy decision
A most amusing 5 or 6 months of ownership and peanuts cost
Honestly, I think the FRP is both brilliant and terrible depending on what you want in a car
The noisiest car I can remember on a motorway, I put ear plugs in
Torque steer/camber hunting so extreme is made every B road straight a corner
No traction at all in snow with wide tyres and low axle weight (sigma is a light engine) and not much better on wet roads
"Exciting" lift off over steer in the wet
BUT.................
On dry B roads when you were driving for pleasure rather than to "get somewhere" it sublime and so much fun i used to drive with the rear seat folded down to hear the exhaust louder (with proper pop's and bang's from a long period cam rather than direct injection exhaust stroke injection cheating). So reactive, so much grip, so much reward from rev'ing the engine and balancing on the throttle.
In truth, at the time I also had a Jaguar XJ8 and I used the Jag for about 90% of journeys where it's comfort was appreciated and only used the FRP where there was fun to be had, so only did a couple of thousand miles in it before swopping it for something mundane like a Fiesta/Focus (6 months was the norm for how long we were allowed to keep lease cars before they were moved onto Ford Direct sales outlets)
Would I have one now, and especially this one - no. I would do exactly what I have, which is get a GR Yaris which you can easily get a nice one for £31k now.
Sounds about right on all counts.A most amusing 5 or 6 months of ownership and peanuts cost
Honestly, I think the FRP is both brilliant and terrible depending on what you want in a car
The noisiest car I can remember on a motorway, I put ear plugs in
Torque steer/camber hunting so extreme is made every B road straight a corner
No traction at all in snow with wide tyres and low axle weight (sigma is a light engine) and not much better on wet roads
"Exciting" lift off over steer in the wet
BUT.................
On dry B roads when you were driving for pleasure rather than to "get somewhere" it sublime and so much fun i used to drive with the rear seat folded down to hear the exhaust louder (with proper pop's and bang's from a long period cam rather than direct injection exhaust stroke injection cheating). So reactive, so much grip, so much reward from rev'ing the engine and balancing on the throttle.
In truth, at the time I also had a Jaguar XJ8 and I used the Jag for about 90% of journeys where it's comfort was appreciated and only used the FRP where there was fun to be had, so only did a couple of thousand miles in it before swopping it for something mundane like a Fiesta/Focus (6 months was the norm for how long we were allowed to keep lease cars before they were moved onto Ford Direct sales outlets)
Would I have one now, and especially this one - no. I would do exactly what I have, which is get a GR Yaris which you can easily get a nice one for £31k now.
Edited by martin12345 on Sunday 21st April 09:45
Edited by martin12345 on Sunday 21st April 09:50
Jon_S_Rally said:
BricktopST205 said:
IIRC correctly the caliper didn't even have dust seals. I understand on a race car but on a road car it will only take 1 winter for them to be buggered.
I would always love one of these however. Where else can you realistically buy a road going F2 kit car/ S1600?
I would have to get the engine built and around 200BHP however.
Seat threatened to do it. They built a prototype Ibiza F2, which had the body panels from the rally car:I would always love one of these however. Where else can you realistically buy a road going F2 kit car/ S1600?
I would have to get the engine built and around 200BHP however.
I seem to remember reading that it was actually a bit of an unauthorised project, built by the team that ran the Ibiza rally cars in the UK, and was later destroyed at the behest of Seat themselves
NGK210 said:
Another example of a car that’s rare because nobody wanted it when new; in this instance, because it seemed like an expensive sheep in wolf’s clothing. Hmm.
Didn’t know about the engine-budget snafu.
And IIRC, the 1.7 can be troublesome but the ‘boring’ 1.6 is hassle-free and robust?
Stories like that often contribute the value of a car in the future though. Lots of cars don't do well when they're new, but become icons later. Plenty of people were cynical of the 964 RS when that came along, but look at them now. The Racing Puma is a great story of an extreme project that didn't quite work out, but still produced a fabulous (if flawed) car. It's what collectible cars are all about in many ways.Didn’t know about the engine-budget snafu.
And IIRC, the 1.7 can be troublesome but the ‘boring’ 1.6 is hassle-free and robust?
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