RE: 2024 Porsche Macan Turbo | PH Review

[Blackpuddin]

Liquid fuel isn't going to go away overnight and therefore nor will synthetic fuel development. It could conceivably reach a point where it becomes an acceptable alternative to electricity.
https://www.carmagazine.co.uk/car-news/tech/what-i...

[Nomme de Plum]

Blackpuddin said:

Liquid fuel isn't going to go away overnight and therefore nor will synthetic fuel development. It could conceivably reach a point where it becomes an acceptable alternative to electricity.
https://www.carmagazine.co.uk/car-news/tech/what-i...

Except when you take into account the amount of energy required to make it and then put it in an engine which runs at 35% efficiency.

Niche product which may end up in racing cars and a few collectors cars that can afford the price.

[bobo79]

stimshady said:

bobo79 said:

Firmly agree on all this. If you can charge at home (and I daresay pretty much buyers of new Porsches can park off street) then it costs pennies to charge overnight. The reality for nearly all use cases is that public charging is pretty rare - a few times per year for me - and I've never had to queue in four years owning an EV, and the number of chargers aroud now dwarfs the number when I first owned an EV.

All cars are a potential fire risk - luckily EVs are considerably less likely to catch fire than ICEs.

So many of these 'excuses' are very tired and easily debunked - and generally used by people that have never had to live with EV.

By the sounds of things, you don't really drive anywhere of any distance if you always charge at home? That wasn't my point.

I also wasn't talking about the risk of fire, more the difficulty of putting the fire out. So, again that wasn't my point.

I was talking about the infrastructure, but seeing as you never charge outside your home, i'm not sure you're well placed to answer that point anyway.

I’m probably quite a bit better placed than you, given that own two EVs and actually know what the infrastructure is like. Like most people, nearly all my journeys are under 100 miles. In fact, I drive around 100 miles a day commuting back and forth, a task an EV is obviously perfect for as I never need to go a petrol station and fuel up.

My wife does more longer range trips than me, to see her sister on the other side of the country. She normally does a 5 min top up on the way there, then charges at their place, then does the same 5 min top up on the way home. I’d imagine that 5 min top up will be eradicated with her next car. She’s never queued or had any issues.

I use public chargers a few times a year, including driving to the south of France 2-3 times annually. France probably has a slightly better network than the UK at the moment (particularly on autoroutes) - but regardless, either way I’ve never had to queue and never worried about being able to charge in three years - and the situation now is a different planet to when I bought the car, so much better is the level of service now.

[bobo79]

Blackpuddin said:

Liquid fuel isn't going to go away overnight and therefore nor will synthetic fuel development. It could conceivably reach a point where it becomes an acceptable alternative to electricity.
https://www.carmagazine.co.uk/car-news/tech/what-i...

For enthusiasts with deep pockets maybe. But it will always be costed as a multiple of electricity (since that is a huge constituent to its production costs) and for most people finding it the stuff will be a pain. It’s very easy indeed to find electricity…

[GT9]

Blackpuddin said:

Liquid fuel isn't going to go away overnight and therefore nor will synthetic fuel development. It could conceivably reach a point where it becomes an acceptable alternative to electricity.
https://www.carmagazine.co.uk/car-news/tech/what-i...

If I said that I had a brilliant idea for a product for mainstream use but that it wastes 90% of the electricity used to run it, would you give me a funny look?

The cascade below is based on using mature processes working within the laws of the universe.

It might get a bit better, but if all the bits that go into are already mature, where is the step change going to come from?

The engine's average efficiency is based on typical drive cycles and includes transmission losses.

The only way I could see us overlooking 10% efficiency is if electricity starts growing on trees.

[Blackpuddin]

I admit my thoughts are not based on any great depth of knowledge so will happily accept I'm wrong, thanks to the last posters for their more informed insights.

[GT9]

Blackpuddin said:

I admit my thoughts are not based on any great depth of knowledge so will happily accept I'm wrong, thanks to the last posters for their more informed insights.

It's a shame that it seems that the window for e-fuel to get a look in has been and gone.
The problem of efficiency isn't insurmountable with sufficient time and money.
The gargantuan amount of each needed to make it mainstream means we should have started building the dedicated wind turbines, electrolysers and synthesis plant many decades ago to have sufficient e-fuel production to make any meaningful difference to today's ICE cars and their carbon footprint.
Limitless electricity from fusion would possibly open the window again...

[dxg]

If the Macan is £100k, what on earth will the Cayenne cost?

[Terminator X]

Nomme de Plum said:

Blackpuddin said:

Liquid fuel isn't going to go away overnight and therefore nor will synthetic fuel development. It could conceivably reach a point where it becomes an acceptable alternative to electricity.
https://www.carmagazine.co.uk/car-news/tech/what-i...

Except when you take into account the amount of energy required to make it and then put it in an engine which runs at 35% efficiency.

Niche product which may end up in racing cars and a few collectors cars that can afford the price.

No one cares about that today so why will they in the future?

TX.

[Nomme de Plum]

Terminator X said:

Nomme de Plum said:

Blackpuddin said:

Liquid fuel isn't going to go away overnight and therefore nor will synthetic fuel development. It could conceivably reach a point where it becomes an acceptable alternative to electricity.
https://www.carmagazine.co.uk/car-news/tech/what-i...

Except when you take into account the amount of energy required to make it and then put it in an engine which runs at 35% efficiency.

Niche product which may end up in racing cars and a few collectors cars that can afford the price.

No one cares about that today so why will they in the future?

TX.

Cost.

[bertie]

bobo79 said:

stimshady said:

bobo79 said:

Firmly agree on all this. If you can charge at home (and I daresay pretty much buyers of new Porsches can park off street) then it costs pennies to charge overnight. The reality for nearly all use cases is that public charging is pretty rare - a few times per year for me - and I've never had to queue in four years owning an EV, and the number of chargers aroud now dwarfs the number when I first owned an EV.

All cars are a potential fire risk - luckily EVs are considerably less likely to catch fire than ICEs.

So many of these 'excuses' are very tired and easily debunked - and generally used by people that have never had to live with EV.

By the sounds of things, you don't really drive anywhere of any distance if you always charge at home? That wasn't my point.

I also wasn't talking about the risk of fire, more the difficulty of putting the fire out. So, again that wasn't my point.

I was talking about the infrastructure, but seeing as you never charge outside your home, i'm not sure you're well placed to answer that point anyway.

I’m probably quite a bit better placed than you, given that own two EVs and actually know what the infrastructure is like. Like most people, nearly all my journeys are under 100 miles. In fact, I drive around 100 miles a day commuting back and forth, a task an EV is obviously perfect for as I never need to go a petrol station and fuel up.

My wife does more longer range trips than me, to see her sister on the other side of the country. She normally does a 5 min top up on the way there, then charges at their place, then does the same 5 min top up on the way home. I’d imagine that 5 min top up will be eradicated with her next car. She’s never queued or had any issues.

I use public chargers a few times a year, including driving to the south of France 2-3 times annually. France probably has a slightly better network than the UK at the moment (particularly on autoroutes) - but regardless, either way I’ve never had to queue and never worried about being able to charge in three years - and the situation now is a different planet to when I bought the car, so much better is the level of service now.

I have to say my experiance echoes yours exactly.

I've been in an EV for 7 years now and I think I've charged away from home / work on the public network about 10 times.

My current EV does real world approx 240 miles which is probably as far as I'd ever want to drive in a day, and with the rise in popularity in destination chargers it's becomeing even less of a concern.

The public netowrk has got so much better recently since Ecotricity were taken over and their unreliable chargers replaced, I tend to target an Ionity or Instavolt on the odd occasions I have to.

The upside is just the smooth instant, perfectly meterable power delivery of EV for daily driving.

Conversely I did find myself stood on a petrol station forecourt not long ago filling up one of the ohter cars and it felt a real waste of time.

I appreciate they wont suit everyone, no car ever has, but they will suit an awful lot of people.