Potholes - Porsche Driver Killed
Discussion
Our potholed roads are not fit for purpose. It's unreasonable to expect motorists to allow for these hazards without warning. In some places cones and even warning signs are placed. But in many others, there is nothing. The authorities are delinquent.
Potholes should be marked by at least one single cone. I've taken into my own hands to mark a deep pothole with a cone in the lane where I live. In the absence of councils doing likewise, I suggest other citizens ensure all potholes are marked by cones.
Potholes should be marked by at least one single cone. I've taken into my own hands to mark a deep pothole with a cone in the lane where I live. In the absence of councils doing likewise, I suggest other citizens ensure all potholes are marked by cones.
_Neal_ said:
911Spanker said:
Olivera said:
_Neal_ said:
Just that he should have been driving to the conditions, being able to stop in the distance he can see to be clear.
Being able to 'stop in the distance you can see clear' refers to road users and pedestrians, not the minutiae of the road surface.bigothunter said:
Our potholed roads are not fit for purpose. It's unreasonable to expect motorists to allow for these hazards without warning. In some places cones and even warning signs are placed. But in many others, there is nothing. The authorities are delinquent.
Potholes should be marked by at least one single cone. I've taken into my own hands to mark a deep pothole with a cone in the lane where I live. In the absence of councils doing likewise, I suggest other citizens ensure all potholes are marked by cones.
There aren't enough cones for the roads of N Oxon. We just assume that they're going to be sPotholes should be marked by at least one single cone. I've taken into my own hands to mark a deep pothole with a cone in the lane where I live. In the absence of councils doing likewise, I suggest other citizens ensure all potholes are marked by cones.
t and if there's a smooth bit, that's a bonus. Tall profile tyres on both cars helps with the odd one that's missed. TBF though, Fix My Street does get results.911Spanker said:
_Neal_ said:
911Spanker said:
Olivera said:
_Neal_ said:
Just that he should have been driving to the conditions, being able to stop in the distance he can see to be clear.
Being able to 'stop in the distance you can see clear' refers to road users and pedestrians, not the minutiae of the road surface.Saying "you should be able to stop in the distance..." is not the same as saying "I'm amazing and I never make mistakes"
Bonefish Blues said:
bigothunter said:
Our potholed roads are not fit for purpose. It's unreasonable to expect motorists to allow for these hazards without warning. In some places cones and even warning signs are placed. But in many others, there is nothing. The authorities are delinquent.
Potholes should be marked by at least one single cone. I've taken into my own hands to mark a deep pothole with a cone in the lane where I live. In the absence of councils doing likewise, I suggest other citizens ensure all potholes are marked by cones.
There aren't enough cones for the roads of N Oxon. We just assume that they're going to be sPotholes should be marked by at least one single cone. I've taken into my own hands to mark a deep pothole with a cone in the lane where I live. In the absence of councils doing likewise, I suggest other citizens ensure all potholes are marked by cones.
t and if there's a smooth bit, that's a bonus. Tall profile tyres on both cars helps with the odd one that's missed. TBF though, Fix My Street does get results.
Blimey, I've driven this road many times. RIP.
Was the driver coming from the east? i couldn't see the suspected obstacle on the google maps links
ETA I won't be surprised if lower speed limits are implemented in that area pretty quickly.
Was the driver coming from the east? i couldn't see the suspected obstacle on the google maps links
MrBen.911 said:
I drove the very road where this happened, in my own Porsche, a week or so before this accident, so this struck close to home. On that drive, I had Waze running and the number of pothole warnings was insane. As soon as I passed one, another was pinging up. That used to be a good road to drive, but it's ruined now, as are so many, by the complete lack of road maintenance.
I disagree, the A272 is still a great road to drive. That straight stretch where the accident happened has very little room for error, however. ETA I won't be surprised if lower speed limits are implemented in that area pretty quickly.
Edited by braddo on Tuesday 7th May 12:02
_Neal_ said:
"you should be able to stop in the distance..."
This phrase is oft used and misunderstood. It's not an absolute. From a civil and criminal liability POV drivers are not expected to be superhuman or drive at 20mph everywhere 'just in case'. You should be able to stop in the distance you *see* to be clear. If a pothole is obscured so you *can't* see it, driving otherwise competently and carefully, you should get no blame for failing to avoid it.In negligence cases you have something called 'counsel of perfection', where expectations of what someone *could* have done are unrealistic.
Sadly there will be a lot more of this in the coming months / years in fact I'm surprised this is the first reported!
The state of the roads is absolutely shocking. As a motorcyclist I have to really focus on the road surfaces now because you can very easily be caught out. I witnessed a guy in a Golf last week swerve to avoid a huge pothole and almost hit an HGV coming the other way. I guess rather than fix the roads, the next solution will be to reduce the speed limits on them to compensate - at least this way they can generate some more fine revenue.
The state of the roads is absolutely shocking. As a motorcyclist I have to really focus on the road surfaces now because you can very easily be caught out. I witnessed a guy in a Golf last week swerve to avoid a huge pothole and almost hit an HGV coming the other way. I guess rather than fix the roads, the next solution will be to reduce the speed limits on them to compensate - at least this way they can generate some more fine revenue.
Story says it’s possible he tried to avoid the pothole and hit the oncoming BMW, how do we know he didn’t actually hit it causing the car to shift and hit the BMW? The metal corner on the picture being shown above looks mighty and sure that would cause some proper damage.
The roads are such a disgrace at the moment I’m surprised there’s not casualties daily especially from cyclists and motorbikes being launched from their saddles.
The roads are such a disgrace at the moment I’m surprised there’s not casualties daily especially from cyclists and motorbikes being launched from their saddles.
There were four cars involved.
It's distinctly possible that he was going for an overtake on the other two, and clipped the BMW due to either/and/or the pothole, cold 'cup' tyres, misjudging the overtake, etc.
I believe he was on his way to Goodwood for a Porsche day, the accident happened at 7:50 am on a cold morning.
Dropping down a gear in a GT2 is going to send a very healthy dollop of extra torque to the rear wheels, maybe kicking the tail out into the opposite lane.
The right rear wheel appears to be the bit that clipped the BMW, possibly swinging the car back the other way and into the house.
Or maybe, being LHD, he misjudged pulling out into the opposite lane.
There are lots of possible explanations as to why this happened.
It's distinctly possible that he was going for an overtake on the other two, and clipped the BMW due to either/and/or the pothole, cold 'cup' tyres, misjudging the overtake, etc.
I believe he was on his way to Goodwood for a Porsche day, the accident happened at 7:50 am on a cold morning.
Dropping down a gear in a GT2 is going to send a very healthy dollop of extra torque to the rear wheels, maybe kicking the tail out into the opposite lane.
The right rear wheel appears to be the bit that clipped the BMW, possibly swinging the car back the other way and into the house.
Or maybe, being LHD, he misjudged pulling out into the opposite lane.
There are lots of possible explanations as to why this happened.
Edited by GT9 on Tuesday 7th May 14:15
Tim Cognito said:
Does anyone know what this process of resurfacing a road by throwing 2 inches of loose stones down and letting the cars compress it down is all about?
I'm sure roads used to be done with hot tarmac or is that too expensive now?
Suffolk Coastal use this method on the roads around here. I'm sure roads used to be done with hot tarmac or is that too expensive now?
They've been doing so for several years.
The first time that i saw it I spent weeks wondering when the tarmac topping would be laid.
Forester1965 said:
_Neal_ said:
"you should be able to stop in the distance..."
This phrase is oft used and misunderstood. It's not an absolute. From a civil and criminal liability POV drivers are not expected to be superhuman or drive at 20mph everywhere 'just in case'. You should be able to stop in the distance you *see* to be clear. If a pothole is obscured so you *can't* see it, driving otherwise competently and carefully, you should get no blame for failing to avoid it.In negligence cases you have something called 'counsel of perfection', where expectations of what someone *could* have done are unrealistic.
We're just talking about driving technique/planning and being able to stop in the distance you can see to be clear (I say it in full above - my quote with the "..." that you use is shorthand) - as you say, if something isn't capable of being seen then effectively it can't be taken into account when planning how you're going to drive. But not all potholes fall into that category, and speculating that this one was obscured is just that, speculation.
Tim Cognito said:
Does anyone know what this process of resurfacing a road by throwing 2 inches of loose stones down and letting the cars compress it down is all about?
I'm sure roads used to be done with hot tarmac or is that too expensive now?
It's not just the road traffic that compresses it, otherwise it would only happen in the wheel tracks. I'm sure roads used to be done with hot tarmac or is that too expensive now?
A couple of roads down near Goodwood received the same treatment in recent years and then for my next visit a few weeks later the roads were all fully sealed. Still, quite annoying for the amount of stone chip damage they can create!
Donbot said:
I'm surprised people have so much difficulty scanning the road surface.
On a bike / motorbike you have to do it constantly if you don't want to fall off every time you go out.
As you say, bikers don't fall of every time they go out. By the same token, this guy has been described as elderly. It follows that he didn't have an accident every time he left the house. Generalising isn't really beneficial. He's had an accident in this instance ( perhaps his first ever for all we know, and if the word accident is still allowed to exist in the ridiculous world we now inhabit ), and he's paid for it. I think speculating about the cause with so little information to go on when he's lost his life is pretty disrespectful.On a bike / motorbike you have to do it constantly if you don't want to fall off every time you go out.
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