Shown up by a 330d saloon
Discussion
knoxville said:
srebbe64 said:
knoxville said:
srebbe64 said:
I've just seen that you're an American - practically in the automotive dark ages over there old bean. In five or ten years you'll understand. In the meantime we'll be tolerant of you because you can only comment on what you have experienced. Rather like asking a poor African for an opinion on a fruity French red wine.
And these diesel supercars that you guys get that we don't are? ...I didn't say supercars, I said performance cars. As mentioned above, one day you'll understand.
It seems you don't get any of the BMW crop but it looks like you do offer the 3.0l Merc engine in the E-Class. Why not give one a go? They work very well in that type of car and whisk them along nicely.
srebbe64 said:
I've just seen that you're an American - practically in the automotive dark ages over there old bean. In five or ten years you'll understand. In the meantime we'll be tolerant of you because you can only comment on what you have experienced. Rather like asking a poor African for an opinion on a fruity French red wine.
I am a petrolhead and do 30k miles a year and should drive diesel. I refused and got an lpg conversion and prefer to live with a 185mile range (which often means two fill ups a day!)on lpg in my 330i than drive a 330diesel!!! The point is I like petrol, I like the revs, the response, the smell, the lack of black smoke, the smooth idle and most of all the exhaust note. I will take petrol over diesel any day of the week.
However, even I have to admit that diesels are fast especially after spending time in a 535d.
FACT:some diesels are fast and they getting faster and faster.
All I am trying to say is that they are fast. I am not saying they more involving etc etc (the fact that really fast ones have to have auto and cannot have manual and smg already hobbles them in the driver enjoyment stakes)
The way this thread is going so quickly just illustrates what a hot topic diesel vs petrol is. This thread is starting to remind me of a certain thread that went to great pains to illustrate how the 535d is better than any car you care mention including the mighty v10 M5.....anyone remember that one?
Dino D said:
The way this thread is going so quickly just illustrates what a hot topic diesel vs petrol is. This thread is starting to remind me of a certain thread that went to great pains to illustrate how the 535d is better than any car you care mention including the mighty v10 M5.....anyone remember that one?
Oh god, not that one again.... argghhh.....
Dino D said:
srebbe64 said:
I've just seen that you're an American - practically in the automotive dark ages over there old bean. In five or ten years you'll understand. In the meantime we'll be tolerant of you because you can only comment on what you have experienced. Rather like asking a poor African for an opinion on a fruity French red wine.
I am a petrolhead and do 30k miles a year and should drive diesel. I refused and got an lpg conversion and prefer to live with a 185mile range (which often means two fill ups a day!)on lpg in my 330i than drive a 330diesel!!! The point is I like petrol, I like the revs, the response, the smell, the lack of black smoke, the smooth idle and most of all the exhaust note. I will take petrol over diesel any day of the week.
However, even I have to admit that diesels are fast especially after spending time in a 535d.
FACT:some diesels are fast and they getting faster and faster.
All I am trying to say is that they are fast. I am not saying they more involving etc etc (the fact that really fast ones have to have auto and cannot have manual and smg already hobbles them in the driver enjoyment stakes)
The way this thread is going so quickly just illustrates what a hot topic diesel vs petrol is. This thread is starting to remind me of a certain thread that went to great pains to illustrate how the 535d is better than any car you care mention including the mighty v10 M5.....anyone remember that one?
I would agree with that. I've got 330d for motorway miles, a TVR Griff 500 for fun, a Diesel Ford Galaxy for the family and we've got a Mini Cooper S for more fun. Of the four cars the most fun is the Tiv and the Coopers S. However, my 330d is significantly quicker than the Cooper S and notn a great deal slower than the TVR.
euroboy said:
So there you go, some performance diesels yanks cant get their hands on 
Yep, changes to the US rules on emissions mean that virtually (if not all) diesel cars are no longer for sale there. Only the brand new engines from Merc and maybe BMW will be sold there. I have a friend who used to live in the US and drove a diesel Passat. Loved it - especially when the faces of his American friends when he mentioned 45-55MPG...
Brought it back from the US and currently racking up the miles in Finland.
It does strike me though, this emissions thing, that there are so many differing angles here - no one seems to have it right. In the EU we have a hell of a lot of diesels and yes they do get 40+MPG - which is good right? Yeah, but there are the particulate problems though. In the US they dont have the potentially carcenogenic particulates but tool around in cars that struggle to get 20+MPG.
Who's right?
Edited by off_again on Wednesday 18th October 15:42
euroboy said:
Just been looking at the BMW USA corporate site, and it doesnt look like BMW sell any car in the USA with a diesel engine.
Same for Jaguar (2.7 TT unit I believe??)
So there you go, some performance diesels yanks cant get their hands on
0-60 in 6.5 seconds is not fast. What do they run the 1/4 mile in? Maybe 14.5 seconds? Shit slow.Same for Jaguar (2.7 TT unit I believe??)
So there you go, some performance diesels yanks cant get their hands on
srebbe64 said:
I would agree with that. I've got 330d for motorway miles, a TVR Griff 500 for fun, a Diesel Ford Galaxy for the family and we've got a Mini Cooper S for more fun. Of the four cars the most fun is the Tiv and the Coopers S. However, my 330d is significantly quicker than the Cooper S and notn a great deal slower than the TVR.
Nice garage you have there...pretty much cover all the bases with those although you anly actually have 3 cars an 1 van!
I hear you on the point that the 330d is quicker than the Cooper and almost as quick as the tiv. Being quick is important if we were running timed stages on the public road but we crave invlovement and enjoyment. The diesels are still only delivering in area-efortless (or univolving) speed.
I personally think the boom in performance in diesels is a good thing for real petrolheads. All the lazy people who want 'real world' performace without changing cogs can stick to their diesels and leave the rest us with more petrol and shorter queues at the Vamx pumps!!
knoxville said:
0-60 in 6.5 seconds is not fast. What do they run the 1/4 mile in? Maybe 14.5 seconds? Shit slow.
Oh dear oh dear....
So its about straightline performance and the 1/4 mile then. Great, thats a real thrill then...
What about corners? What about overtaking? What about fast response to power requirements? In gear acceleration? Nah, doesn't matter.
What you got then?
knoxville said:
0-60 in 6.5 seconds is not fast. What do they run the 1/4 mile in? Maybe 14.5 seconds? Shit slow.
I think you're just being obstreperous. It's all horses for courses. There's no reason why the manufacturers can't make really powerful diesels, infact quite a few exist but they tend to end up inside 2+ ton 4x4s and Limos. 6.5 seconds in a saloon car is not slow. Maybe compared to your "355whp" Evo it is but then you're not comparing like for like. It's like comparing a Fabia vRS to a Focus RS, they just aren't the same thing.
Edited by mackie1 on Wednesday 18th October 16:19
knoxville said:
Because putting a heavy diesel engine in the front of a car will improve its handling ...
Things have come a long way. There are now quite a few all alloy engines in production. BMW and Honda definately have them and although still slightly heavier due to the high cylinder pressures they need to cope with and the turbo gubbins they are no longer the boat anchors they used to be.
BTW the engine in your Evo has an iron block :P (but it still handles pretty well)
PS. What have you done to it to get those wheel horsepower readings? It must be pushing out well over 400bhp at the flywheel.
Edited by mackie1 on Wednesday 18th October 16:29
knoxville said:
Because putting a heavy diesel engine in the front of a car will improve its handling ...
Obviously you havent been reading then.... the new-gen BMW engine is actually only a touch, and I mean a touch, heavier than the petrol engine. The use of exotic alloys has meant that its only around 5-10Kgs heavier than the equivalent petrol engine (at the moment) and its not an issue. BMW specifically then re-arrange other bits and bobs in the car to balance the weight around. So its not an issue in reality.
Additionally there are lots of other things you can do to correct this - like changing the suspension settings to match the weight distribution. Gone are the days of a nose-heavy diesel engine. Also, you heard of the Honda CTDI engine? Its actually lighter than other manufacturers petrol engines..... so actually is better balanced anyway....
knoxville said:
Exhaust, fuel pump, forge mbc, intake, sports downpipe, Ecutek, 22 psi on pump gas
Cool, turbo laaaaag to die for....
Diesel technology has moved on considerably and its here to stay. Not suggesting that its the best way forward. But just like the stereotypical image of US sports cars being crap (the current Vette is well regarded), dont knock modern Euro-diesels unless you have driven one.....
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