Discussion
anniesdad said:
I hear you, I really do, I agree they should do a better job if they are charging more, but a 4 day detail (in the detailing thread it mentions this) is going to cost what, I'm guessing £1000? I think McL know that the owners can probably comfortably afford that so are unlikely to offer this as a complimentary service...
I don't know how hard it is to respray an F1, whether the car is stripped to bare shell and rebuilt. What I remember reading is that a CGT costs c.£8k for a respray and is quite simple to do in that most of the painted parts can be unbolted from the chassis/tub.
I'm guessing an F1 respray costs, this kind of money, maybe £10K?
You think? The respray I had done on my M3 a few years ago was close enough to £5k, so £10k for an F1 sounds cheap.I don't know how hard it is to respray an F1, whether the car is stripped to bare shell and rebuilt. What I remember reading is that a CGT costs c.£8k for a respray and is quite simple to do in that most of the painted parts can be unbolted from the chassis/tub.
I'm guessing an F1 respray costs, this kind of money, maybe £10K?
I'd expect it to be more like double that, but then I've not got much to base that on.
alsem said:
tbh, I really liked the colour it was originally, but some race livery isn't bad either:
Every time I see that picture, my first thought is that McLaren really should invest in some more grass seed and a decent sprinkler system. There's an arc of fabulous cars, parked around a somewhat boring concrete lined pond, with a foreground and background of greenish blugh.Snoggledog said:
Every time I see that picture, my first thought is that McLaren really should invest in some more grass seed and a decent sprinkler system. There's an arc of fabulous cars, parked around a somewhat boring concrete lined pond, with a foreground and background of greenish blugh.
Trust me there is a very decent irrigation system in place and also the lake cools the building too.dan5oclocksmith said:
You think? The respray I had done on my M3 a few years ago was close enough to £5k, so £10k for an F1 sounds cheap.
I'd expect it to be more like double that, but then I've not got much to base that on.
Why should it cost so much more, the car is the same size if not smaller? I'd expect it to be more like double that, but then I've not got much to base that on.
I don't know how complex the F1 repaint process is though, nor whether the car is totally rebuilt so it's pure guess work. My recollection from speaking to a carbon fibre paint specialist sometime ago is that painting CF is not really that different to painting steel/alu. panels.
I guess some of it is "it's a McLaren F1" factor...therefore justifying somewhat the increased cost? Is there warranty implications if the car is resprayed elsewhereand not by McLaren?
anniesdad said:
Why should it cost so much more, the car is the same size if not smaller?
I don't know how complex the F1 repaint process is though, nor whether the car is totally rebuilt so it's pure guess work. My recollection from speaking to a carbon fibre paint specialist sometime ago is that painting CF is not really that different to painting steel/alu. panels.
I guess some of it is "it's a McLaren F1" factor...therefore justifying somewhat the increased cost? Is there warranty implications if the car is resprayed elsewhereand not by McLaren?
If you owned an F1 (or any million pound car) - would you want it resprayed by anyone other than the factory?I don't know how complex the F1 repaint process is though, nor whether the car is totally rebuilt so it's pure guess work. My recollection from speaking to a carbon fibre paint specialist sometime ago is that painting CF is not really that different to painting steel/alu. panels.
I guess some of it is "it's a McLaren F1" factor...therefore justifying somewhat the increased cost? Is there warranty implications if the car is resprayed elsewhereand not by McLaren?
If you sold it in 5 years would you want the history showing that it was maintained by anyone other than the factory?
So - assuming you agree that it just has to be done by the factory ... surely they can charge pretty much whatever they like?
Strachan said:
Well it costs 3 times that for a service...
I think it would be fair to say that it can cost that much - depending what is needed. I think, for example, that every 5 years the fuel cell thing needs changing and that is quite expensive (engine out, is that right?).I think Mr F has explained before that a 'regular' service is nowhere near £30k - it's a bit of a myth.
Joe911 said:
I probably shouldn't say the number - but it's way bigger than that, way bigger.
Wow....I'm guessing the hourly labour rate is/was c. £150-£200.00 and I've no doubt it took a good few man hours to do. Ordinarily bodyshops would charge c.£50.00 per hour. Probably more for alu./CF work.
Flemke's happy with the car and that's what matters more than anything.
Joe911 said:
If you owned an F1 (or any million pound car) - would you want it resprayed by anyone other than the factory?
If you sold it in 5 years would you want the history showing that it was maintained by anyone other than the factory?
So - assuming you agree that it just has to be done by the factory ... surely they can charge pretty much whatever they like?
All very relevant points and of course quite understandable points. But if I may, some 250 GTO's./Enzo's/F40's et al. have been repainted by the likes of Mototechnique, quite what they charge I've no idea either, maybe more than McLaren I suspect likely to be less. I do understand though that they turn out very good work - maybe they throw in a detail? If you sold it in 5 years would you want the history showing that it was maintained by anyone other than the factory?
So - assuming you agree that it just has to be done by the factory ... surely they can charge pretty much whatever they like?
Flemke's car is I suppose different to others in that afaik he's not intending on selling it
, nor has it been worked on by the factory only. It's a proper car that's been modified to his liking. Museum pieces I agree would/should be looked at only by the factory to maintain their values. I suppose it would be interesting (although pointless) to know what Flemke's car would be worth now in comparison to others.
anniesdad said:
Joe911 said:
If you owned an F1 (or any million pound car) - would you want it resprayed by anyone other than the factory?
If you sold it in 5 years would you want the history showing that it was maintained by anyone other than the factory?
So - assuming you agree that it just has to be done by the factory ... surely they can charge pretty much whatever they like?
All very relevant points and of course quite understandable points. But if I may, some 250 GTO's./Enzo's/F40's et al. have been repainted by the likes of Mototechnique, quite what they charge I've no idea either, maybe more than McLaren I suspect likely to be less. I do understand though that they turn out very good work - maybe they throw in a detail? If you sold it in 5 years would you want the history showing that it was maintained by anyone other than the factory?
So - assuming you agree that it just has to be done by the factory ... surely they can charge pretty much whatever they like?
Flemke's car is I suppose different to others in that afaik he's not intending on selling it
, nor has it been worked on by the factory only. It's a proper car that's been modified to his liking. Museum pieces I agree would/should be looked at only by the factory to maintain their values. I suppose it would be interesting (although pointless) to know what Flemke's car would be worth now in comparison to others.
anniesdad said:
Joe911 said:
What was done was not just the insurance claim - so of course they are not paying the full bill anyway.
The thing that's not right here though is that McL do not charge regular body-shop rates. The number they charge for a respray is eye watering - it's just crazy. So, given that they are charging an insane price - would it not be a right and proper that they do a better job than anyone else and include a detail in with the price? (just like my car getting a 'free' wash included in the servicing price)
Though here the car was not just detailed, but had a special paint treatment - and I can see why McL would not have wanted to do that bit.
When McL fit new tyres, for example, they charge a fortune - but they are kind enough to take the car to a test track and scrub them in for you (like you wouldn't prefer to do it yourself).
I hear you, I really do, I agree they should do a better job if they are charging more, but a 4 day detail (in the detailing thread it mentions this) is going to cost what, I'm guessing £1000? I think McL know that the owners can probably comfortably afford that so are unlikely to offer this as a complimentary service...The thing that's not right here though is that McL do not charge regular body-shop rates. The number they charge for a respray is eye watering - it's just crazy. So, given that they are charging an insane price - would it not be a right and proper that they do a better job than anyone else and include a detail in with the price? (just like my car getting a 'free' wash included in the servicing price)
Though here the car was not just detailed, but had a special paint treatment - and I can see why McL would not have wanted to do that bit.
When McL fit new tyres, for example, they charge a fortune - but they are kind enough to take the car to a test track and scrub them in for you (like you wouldn't prefer to do it yourself).
Edited by Joe911 on Monday 19th September 10:32
I don't know how hard it is to respray an F1, whether the car is stripped to bare shell and rebuilt. What I remember reading is that a CGT costs c.£8k for a respray and is quite simple to do in that most of the painted parts can be unbolted from the chassis/tub.
I'm guessing an F1 respray costs, this kind of money, maybe £10K?
Yes, it's body-off. Adding to the expense is that they sand off the old paint back to the primer. Also, the windscreen has an internal plasma layer for demisting. There is a delicate electrical contact at the edge of the screen, to get juice into the layer. When removing the screen, with a cheese wire, that contact will often break away, resulting in an expensive piece of unbroken but useless glass. New screen alone is not far off 5 figures.
Their labour rates are in line with Home Counties main dealers, and in fact lower than many. The cost of parts is v high, partly because of small build numbers.
flemke said:
I had those anodised in red a couple of years ago; I had several sets made up by request. Willans only offer black and blue adjusters, but they kindly arranged for those to be made up bespoke for me.
Was going to say that I've never seen red adjusters before (I worked at Willans for a couple of summers during university) - they really do look good against the black webbing. Good choice!flemke said:
The cost is, cough, somewhat higher than that. You might be surprised at how nice a new car you could get for the same money.
Yes, it's body-off. Adding to the expense is that they sand off the old paint back to the primer. Also, the windscreen has an internal plasma layer for demisting. There is a delicate electrical contact at the edge of the screen, to get juice into the layer. When removing the screen, with a cheese wire, that contact will often break away, resulting in an expensive piece of unbroken but useless glass. New screen alone is not far off 5 figures.
Their labour rates are in line with Home Counties main dealers, and in fact lower than many. The cost of parts is v high, partly because of small build numbers.
Totally appreciate that they'd take it back to primer and I'd heard/read about the windscreen before, probably right here on this thread. Yes, it's body-off. Adding to the expense is that they sand off the old paint back to the primer. Also, the windscreen has an internal plasma layer for demisting. There is a delicate electrical contact at the edge of the screen, to get juice into the layer. When removing the screen, with a cheese wire, that contact will often break away, resulting in an expensive piece of unbroken but useless glass. New screen alone is not far off 5 figures.
Their labour rates are in line with Home Counties main dealers, and in fact lower than many. The cost of parts is v high, partly because of small build numbers.
So an....errr...simple respray (labour + paint no parts) might be almost affordable?
A US owner, Miles Collier, claimed in an article he wrote for Sports Car Market Letter magazine that he spent nearly $300,000 having McLaren restore and refurbish all the components and systems on an F1 that had been owned by what was described as "unsympathetic hands". Out of that figure, he attributed $70,000 of it to the cost of a repaint.
Before you shudder at those numbers, his car is now worth easily twice what he paid for it, including the initial bill from McLaren to make it 'right' and retrim it to suit his tastes.
>8^)
ER
Before you shudder at those numbers, his car is now worth easily twice what he paid for it, including the initial bill from McLaren to make it 'right' and retrim it to suit his tastes.
>8^)
ER
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