RE: BMW 135i First Drive

[baz1985]

It's going to be absurdly cheap fun this time next year.

[havoc]

bencollins said:

Price perception is interesting here, by dropping the diff and shortening 10 inches of steel, why would anyone expect this car to be much cheaper? All the other build costs are virtually the same. Oh yeah sorry, it is a small car and must be cheap nd nasty and big cars are great, and expensive. This is not a fiesta versus granada price mindset.

Then why buy it at all?!? The 3-series (even the bland new one) is better resolved (all shapes), offers more space for rear passengers AND luggage, will probably have better residuals because of both those facts, and weighs little more, so will have similar performance.


BMW are doing just what Honda (Europe) have done with the CTR...played it safe for 'mass appeal'. Which can only disappoint those after a proper drivers' car.

As for the weight...scary...that's heavier with 1 driver than the (longer, more practical, more fun, better looking, more economical) DC2 Integra when the DC2 has 4 adults in it plus a boot full of luggage! And I'd suggest probably no different in point-to-point performance when just 1-up. So where is the progress over 10 years*?!? Oh, and it costs 50% more...

• Aside from better crash protection and a quieter, higher-quality cabin...

[75_Steve]

I really can't understand why people continue buying BMWs, or Mercedes or even Audis.

I've just been looking at the company car list for next year.

A basic BMW 320d costs about £5k more than a similarly specced Passat 2.0TDI.

Even a Passat 2.0TDI-170 SEL is about £3k less.

Can anyone explain why I'd want a poverty 320d with the associated extra contribution and tax bill?

Even if the 320d was available for nothing, I'd still take the Passat SEL and get the difference in lease rates back in cash in my salary every month - or I'd get a 159 2.4JTD with 200bhp.

[Trenchtown]

snotrag said:

waynepixel said:

I got to see the car at brand this year. I thought it was a electric car, it was so quiet, can anyone here explain why and how this Diesel car sounds so quiet.

Same reason as the Dag-dags at Le-Mans I would imagine...

If they put regular exhausts on, they would be driving round the track spitting out enormous filthy clouds of black sooty smoke...
Now obviously this is not exactly the image they (manufacturer) are trying to get across, so they have mahooosive mufflers/silencers on to catch all the crap, thus muting the sound.

That's right gentlemen; the diesel engine is in fact still a poluting, noise and filthy engine it was twenty years ago, because obviously, all manufacturers discontinued their r&d on diesel engines back then.

But BMW came up with a nifty exhaust...

And those diesel engines at Le Mans kickig everyonce asses had flux capacitators for engines. A brilliant move by Audi!

[havoc]

Trenchtown said:

That's right gentlemen; the diesel engine is in fact still a polluting, noise and filthy engine...

Compared to petrol yes it is. Even WITH the particulate filters and all the mufflers, a diesel STILL has more harmful emissions and the noise it makes at the block CAN'T be muffled except by even more weight...


Not to say it's a bad fuel, just to claim it's the saviour of motoring is to get sucked in by all the hype...it's not, and a good petrol will still get my hard-earned.

[busta]

They are quieter because they are doing barely half as many revs and are turbocharged. No stupid exhausts and, regrettably, no flux capacitors.

[Marki]

75_Steve said:

I really can't understand why people continue buying BMWs, or Mercedes or even Audis.

I've just been looking at the company car list for next year.

A basic BMW 320d costs about £5k more than a similarly specced Passat 2.0TDI.

Even a Passat 2.0TDI-170 SEL is about £3k less.

Can anyone explain why I'd want a poverty 320d with the associated extra contribution and tax bill?

Even if the 320d was available for nothing, I'd still take the Passat SEL and get the difference in lease rates back in cash in my salary every month - or I'd get a 159 2.4JTD with 200bhp.

Drive a Passat then drive the BMW 320d i think you will find
the 3 k premium a small price to pay

[havoc]

busta said:

They are quieter because they are doing barely half as many revs and are turbocharged. No stupid exhausts and, regrettably, no flux capacitors.

Put a Focus diesel next to a Focus petrol and tell me it's quieter. At idle, at 1/2 revs, or at 3/4 max revs (change-up point for a diesel, right?!? ), the diesel will be noisier inside the cabin and out.

You're thinking of performance petrol, which is a little unfair as they're designed to sound louder...

[Marki]

havoc said:

busta said:

They are quieter because they are doing barely half as many revs and are turbocharged. No stupid exhausts and, regrettably, no flux capacitors.

Put a Focus diesel next to a Focus petrol and tell me it's quieter. At idle, at 1/2 revs, or at 3/4 max revs (change-up point for a diesel, right?!? ), the diesel will be noisier inside the cabin and out.

You're thinking of performance petrol, which is a little unfair as they're designed to sound louder...

The 320d Coupe i tested was silent at 160kph on a motorway

Even at 200kph you were only then starting to get some wind noise

[havoc]

Marki said:

The 320d Coupe i tested was silent at 160kph on a motorway

Even at 200kph you were only then starting to get some wind noise

And would a 320i be any louder?

[PhilLL]

Marki said:

PhilLL said:

Did anyone mention the weight?

If you want a stripped out shell buy a Caterwestvort or do you want car that will cosset you , that will protect you in the event of an accident , and still be good in 10 years time ... jezzus you minimalists what planet do you live on , 1500kg is about normal today

As someone said earlier it has all the bells and whistles a 300 ps twin turbo engine and it is 200 kg heavier than an original M3 Cecotto what is wrong with that

Or are you just another BMW hater

Whoa we have a biter!!!

I was taking the p!ss; I largely agree with what you say and as I've already said, reckon they will be a bit of a performance bargain in 12 months when the dealer demos come on the market. 36k is too much but who's actually gonna end up paying that much? There will be discounts no doubt and when the market adjusts the values accordingly it may go the same way as the Z4M i.e. very attractive nearly new propositions for petrolheads.

[Agoogy]

Seriously though, you'd have to be a bit strange to 'want' one... I mean all shots so far on here, EVO, CAR... and in the flesh (I've seen two) they are simply odd.

[Marki]

havoc said:

Marki said:

The 320d Coupe i tested was silent at 160kph on a motorway

Even at 200kph you were only then starting to get some wind noise

And would a 320i be any louder?

Doubt it

[75_Steve]

Marki said:

Drive a Passat then drive the BMW 320d i think you will find
the 3 k premium a small price to pay

Do you think I'd actually notice at 85mph on the motorway, or crawling through town?

I may notice a bit of a difference on A and B roads, on the rare occasion I get a decent run without traffic, but for 90% of the time, the difference would be so negligible that I can't see why I'd want to stump up the extra cash.

[Bodo]

75_Steve said:

Marki said:

Drive a Passat then drive the BMW 320d i think you will find
the 3 k premium a small price to pay

Do you think I'd actually notice at 85mph on the motorway, or crawling through town?

I may notice a bit of a difference on A and B roads, on the rare occasion I get a decent run without traffic, but for 90% of the time, the difference would be so negligible that I can't see why I'd want to stump up the extra cash.

The Beamer is cheaper

Cost per month, keeping time 3yrs, 30k km pa

	VW Passat Variant 2.0 TDI Comfortline (DPF)	BMW 320d touring (DPF)
List	31050 Euro	34350 Euro
Output	170 PS	177 PS
Fuel consumption	6,2 ltr / 100Km	4,9 ltr / 100Km
Depreciation	402 Euro	414 Euro
Running Cost	208 Euro	170 Euro
Fixed Cost	102 Euro	104 Euro
Maintenance	87 Euro	86 Euro
Cost/m	799 Euro	774 Euro

[75_Steve]

Not according to my car list, it isn't.

[Bodo]

75_Steve said:

Not according to my car list, it isn't.

I can see my list, but can't see yours. So what's your point?

[75_Steve]

Bodo said:

75_Steve said:

Not according to my car list, it isn't.

I can see my list, but can't see yours. So what's your point?

The point is that, in the UK, the BMW can cost a hell of a lot more to lease.

You've quoted a German cost breakdown, in which the price difference is significantly smaller than in the UK.

Anyway, we're both looking at specific examples - in my case, the BMW makes very little sense.

[Marki]

Bodo said:

75_Steve said:

Marki said:

Drive a Passat then drive the BMW 320d i think you will find
the 3 k premium a small price to pay

Do you think I'd actually notice at 85mph on the motorway, or crawling through town?

I may notice a bit of a difference on A and B roads, on the rare occasion I get a decent run without traffic, but for 90% of the time, the difference would be so negligible that I can't see why I'd want to stump up the extra cash.

The Beamer is cheaper

Cost per month, keeping time 3yrs, 30k km pa

	VW Passat Variant 2.0 TDI Comfortline (DPF)	BMW 320d touring (DPF)
List	31050 Euro	34350 Euro
Output	170 PS	177 PS
Fuel consumption	6,2 ltr / 100Km	4,9 ltr / 100Km
Depreciation	402 Euro	414 Euro
Running Cost	208 Euro	170 Euro
Fixed Cost	102 Euro	104 Euro
Maintenance	87 Euro	86 Euro
Cost/m	799 Euro	774 Euro

As they say in Denmark "It costs a lot of money to be poor"

Initial cost is never the end of story , also my experience of VW is that service costs are incredibley high for an every day mid range car

[havoc]

I'm with Marki on this...as far as running-costs go BM's ARE cheaper than VWs, and esp. than Audi's. Factor depreciation in...