RE: Caparo Lays Claim To Top Gear Power Lap
Discussion
personally i think the caparo T1 deserves to be at the top
of the TG leaderboard, how can anyone say that this car
cant be a road legal car next to the likes of a ferrari or a lambo!!
1. all these cars have very little space to store stuff for when u go shopping etc
2. all these cars only have 2 seats so are pretty pointless for going out with friends
3. how many ferraris and lambos do you see out on UK roads anyway when 90% of the weather we
have is rain which means many owners never actually bring these cars out
4. all of these cars will suffer due to speed bumps in this country, if anyone can honestly
tell me that other super cars suchs as zonda, ferraris and lambos have never suffered
from them then there wrong cus top gear have proved that time and time again when they
have taken supercars out onto the roads
of the TG leaderboard, how can anyone say that this car
cant be a road legal car next to the likes of a ferrari or a lambo!!
1. all these cars have very little space to store stuff for when u go shopping etc
2. all these cars only have 2 seats so are pretty pointless for going out with friends
3. how many ferraris and lambos do you see out on UK roads anyway when 90% of the weather we
have is rain which means many owners never actually bring these cars out
4. all of these cars will suffer due to speed bumps in this country, if anyone can honestly
tell me that other super cars suchs as zonda, ferraris and lambos have never suffered
from them then there wrong cus top gear have proved that time and time again when they
have taken supercars out onto the roads
I wonder how many CCXs, Enzos, Veyrons etc are used as everyday cars?
I'll put a fiver on there being more Caterhams and Ultimas in that position.
I would also say that, away from the track, these cars are more likely to be used for holidays. You only have to visit Le Mans to see the variety of cars brought there by spectators. Haven't yet seen an Enzo, CCX or Veyron there, but I've seen plenty of Caterhams and a reasonable amount of Ultimas too.
So, in the REAL world, both Caterhams and Ultimas function very well. Just because in some of your opinions (above) you don't like them doesn't diminish their abilities.
Top Gear is being hypocritical here but it's their show so we live with it.
I'll put a fiver on there being more Caterhams and Ultimas in that position.
I would also say that, away from the track, these cars are more likely to be used for holidays. You only have to visit Le Mans to see the variety of cars brought there by spectators. Haven't yet seen an Enzo, CCX or Veyron there, but I've seen plenty of Caterhams and a reasonable amount of Ultimas too.
So, in the REAL world, both Caterhams and Ultimas function very well. Just because in some of your opinions (above) you don't like them doesn't diminish their abilities.
Top Gear is being hypocritical here but it's their show so we live with it.
The Hitman said:
CommanderJameson said:
The Hitman said:
CommanderJameson said:
Point is this: it's road legal. Whether or not you consider it sensible or practical is of no consequence - that's just your opinion. There are mad people out there who would cheerfully drive these cars every day.
It's a road car.
OK, lets run with your train of thought on this one. As long as I can make the adequate changes necessary to make a car road legal and put it around the track, it should be put of the board?It's a road car.
So, lets just say it was possible to make an F1 car road legal without changing very much. You think its fair to put next to it the likes of an Atom or a Hot Hatch? Should TG bring on that american abomination that managed to beat the Veyrons max speed? No, they won't, because it would be a shit car. The T1 maybe fast, doesn't mean you should put it on a pedestal.
TG should stick by their guns on this one.
I don't think one-offs should be put on the board, but at the moment we've got a situation where there's £300,000 cars versus £30,000 cars (CCX versus Atom).
It isn't suitable to go on the board, there is no-way you can convince me that the T1 was designed with normal roads in mind, because it obviously wasn't. All the rest of those cars are designed to be enjoyed at the very least on the roads, and some others on the track aswell (the Atom fits here BTW).
Edited by The Hitman on Tuesday 20th November 08:45
I think the spirit of the TG lap board is for 'road cars' rather than 'road legal' cars. I cant see the Caparo actually being used on a road, except perhaphs just for publicity purposes or some doing 'I told you so' showing off.
I also think the Caparo shouldnt be on the TG track until its fully developed and has achieved all its saftey rating etc. Currently it seems to be a prototype or development mule. this is unlikly to be the same formula as is released to the public for sale. In fact, the one shown on the program is not the raod going version, as now admitted by the company in the above statement. So if its not the road going version the lap time shouldnt be counted.
I also think the Caparo shouldnt be on the TG track until its fully developed and has achieved all its saftey rating etc. Currently it seems to be a prototype or development mule. this is unlikly to be the same formula as is released to the public for sale. In fact, the one shown on the program is not the raod going version, as now admitted by the company in the above statement. So if its not the road going version the lap time shouldnt be counted.
The distinction between road cars and cars that are road legal is simply one of utility.
A road car must have:
1. all weather protection
2. some useable storage space
3. The ability to carry at least one passenger
4. the ability to negotiate all standard road traffic obstacles (humps etc) without external adjustment.
Oh yes, and the owner must be happy to leave it unattended in a public place.
Whether the owner decides to make use any of the above is beside the point.
Therefore, Ferraris, Veyrons and Lambos etc are road cars and Atoms, Caparos and Radicals etc are street legal track cars. Comparing them is a bit daft - you wouldn't compare a Eurofighter with a 747 would you?
PS. This is my first post, so be gentle with me!
A road car must have:
1. all weather protection
2. some useable storage space
3. The ability to carry at least one passenger
4. the ability to negotiate all standard road traffic obstacles (humps etc) without external adjustment.
Oh yes, and the owner must be happy to leave it unattended in a public place.
Whether the owner decides to make use any of the above is beside the point.
Therefore, Ferraris, Veyrons and Lambos etc are road cars and Atoms, Caparos and Radicals etc are street legal track cars. Comparing them is a bit daft - you wouldn't compare a Eurofighter with a 747 would you?
PS. This is my first post, so be gentle with me!
I agree if it's not the final road version, and can appreciate the no 'dedicated track car' concept, but when they mentioned the ground clearance on the actual program the first thing that came into my head was them having to remove the splitter from a zonda to get it out of a paris garage, shouldn't it be removed as well?
A road-legal car with no screen or heater is still a road car, because you can drive it on the roads. You wouldn't call a motorbike "not road usable" just because you need to wear a helmet and weather protection. I used my screenless, doorless, fully caged bike-engined Caterham on the road all the time, and it required less "commitment" than my Gilera scooter, since it didn't give me backache.
A car which doesn't clear speed bumps isn't a road car, regardless of whether it's road legal, since you can't use it *at all* on normal roads, for fear of getting stuck.
By my logic, Radicals, Caparos, Ultimas etc should all be allowed provided that the suspension is easily adjustable to clear speed bumps, the tyres will work in the wet and the lights are good enough to drive safely at night.
FWIW, in a downpour I'd rather drive a screenless, roofless Caterham with decent wets that an M3 CSL on those cut slicks they were sold with (IIRC). You arrive wetter, but in one piece.
John
A car which doesn't clear speed bumps isn't a road car, regardless of whether it's road legal, since you can't use it *at all* on normal roads, for fear of getting stuck.
By my logic, Radicals, Caparos, Ultimas etc should all be allowed provided that the suspension is easily adjustable to clear speed bumps, the tyres will work in the wet and the lights are good enough to drive safely at night.
FWIW, in a downpour I'd rather drive a screenless, roofless Caterham with decent wets that an M3 CSL on those cut slicks they were sold with (IIRC). You arrive wetter, but in one piece.
John
Tony*T3 said:
I think the spirit of the TG lap board is for 'road cars' rather than 'road legal' cars. I cant see the Caparo actually being used on a road, except perhaphs just for publicity purposes or some doing 'I told you so' showing off.
I also think the Caparo shouldnt be on the TG track until its fully developed and has achieved all its saftey rating etc. Currently it seems to be a prototype or development mule. this is unlikly to be the same formula as is released to the public for sale. In fact, the one shown on the program is not the raod going version, as now admitted by the company in the above statement. So if its not the road going version the lap time shouldnt be counted.
agree, can't really see some one driving these on the road or even just to a track day and back if you can afford one I dare say you'd be able to get ya self a car trailer, witch will be very handy after you crash it or after its been one fire. You may as well get yourself a ex F3000 or even ex F1 race car really, probably cheaper I also think the Caparo shouldnt be on the TG track until its fully developed and has achieved all its saftey rating etc. Currently it seems to be a prototype or development mule. this is unlikly to be the same formula as is released to the public for sale. In fact, the one shown on the program is not the raod going version, as now admitted by the company in the above statement. So if its not the road going version the lap time shouldnt be counted.
AJM6 said:
The distinction between road cars and cars that are road legal is simply one of utility.
A road car must have:
1. all weather protection
2. some useable storage space
3. The ability to carry at least one passenger
4. the ability to negotiate all standard road traffic obstacles (humps etc) without external adjustment.
Oh yes, and the owner must be happy to leave it unattended in a public place.
Whether the owner decides to make use any of the above is beside the point.
Therefore, Ferraris, Veyrons and Lambos etc are road cars and Atoms, Caparos and Radicals etc are street legal track cars. Comparing them is a bit daft - you wouldn't compare a Eurofighter with a 747 would you?
PS. This is my first post, so be gentle with me!
Welcome to PH, You talk far to much sense to be on here.A road car must have:
1. all weather protection
2. some useable storage space
3. The ability to carry at least one passenger
4. the ability to negotiate all standard road traffic obstacles (humps etc) without external adjustment.
Oh yes, and the owner must be happy to leave it unattended in a public place.
Whether the owner decides to make use any of the above is beside the point.
Therefore, Ferraris, Veyrons and Lambos etc are road cars and Atoms, Caparos and Radicals etc are street legal track cars. Comparing them is a bit daft - you wouldn't compare a Eurofighter with a 747 would you?
PS. This is my first post, so be gentle with me!
LathamJohnP said:
FWIW, in a downpour I'd rather drive a screenless, roofless Caterham with decent wets that an M3 CSL on those cut slicks they were sold with (IIRC). You arrive wetter, but in one piece.
John
The CSL isn't a track dedicated car though, is it? Not even the Caterham is solely meant for the track. They both were designed for road and track use. Just ridiculing a car because of its tyres is ridiculous, think about it. I'm pretty sure, if you could afford to buy and run a CSL, then you can afford to put on some other tyres for non-track use, hmm? It'll still be fairly pratical, the T1 just isn't is it?John
You can argue about the all the Lambos, Fezzas and Porkers all you like, that they are impratical, stiff, whatever. They still aren't track cars, the T1 is!
Why should TG entertain the fact that you can legally drive on the roads with it? Doesn't make it a good road car. Its a track day car, end of story. You will not drive around town in one. You would not give anyone a lift. You won't go down the shop. You wont go meet you're friends. You wont go for a nice drive in the countryside. You will goto the track because thats the only thing its good for.
Don't think I have anything against the T1, I think its a
ing great car...for going to a track day in. Edited by The Hitman on Tuesday 20th November 10:36
The Hitman said:
LathamJohnP said:
FWIW, in a downpour I'd rather drive a screenless, roofless Caterham with decent wets that an M3 CSL on those cut slicks they were sold with (IIRC). You arrive wetter, but in one piece.
John
The CSL isn't a track dedicated car though, is it? Not even the Caterham is solely meant for the track. They both were designed for road and track use. Just ridiculing a car because of its tyres is ridiculous, think about it. I'm pretty sure, if you could afford to buy and run a CSL, then you can afford to put on some other tyres for non-track use, hmm? It'll still be fairly pratical, the T1 just isn't is it?John
You can argue about the all the Lambos, Fezzas and Porkers all you like, that they are impratical, stiff, whatever. They still aren't track cars, the T1 is!
Why should TG entertain the fact that you can legally drive on the roads with it? Doesn't make it a good road car. Its a track day car, end of story. You will not drive around town in one. You would not give anyone a lift. You won't go down the shop. You wont go meet you're friends. You wont go for a nice drive in the countryside. You will goto the track because thats the only thing its good for.
Don't think I have anything against the T1, I think its a
ing great car...for going to a track day in.I agree that the Caparo is a poor road car, but that's a subjective opinion, and irrelevant to the setting of "road car laps" on a track. If I have no friends and shop on the internet, I might consider it a perfectly fun way to drive around. On your criteria, you would exclude an Elise because you can't fit X bags of shopping in the boot.
John
What i find completely hypocritical is that JC makes the distinction between road vs track cars, but only when it suits. Yet when it comes to testing a road car (i.e. M5 estate vs Merc AMG estate in the last episode) where do they go to test it? A test route encompassing many different types of roads/environments? No. The runway at manchester airport..at night...with flames and explosions in the background. Useless. Inept. A waste of money. A waste of my time.
5th Gear last night was much better, but even that is attempting to satisfy the chav element by testing the R8 vs 911 by seeing which was easier to pull off an impressive drift. Nonsense.
5th Gear last night was much better, but even that is attempting to satisfy the chav element by testing the R8 vs 911 by seeing which was easier to pull off an impressive drift. Nonsense.
Cliffv8 said:
agree, can't really see some one driving these on the road or even just to a track day and back if you can afford one I dare say you'd be able to get ya self a car trailer, witch will be very handy after you crash it or after its been one fire. You may as well get yourself a ex F3000 or even ex F1 race car really, probably cheaper
but i can see the Caparo being added to the garage at Ascari's Race Resort, along side all the other exoticaAJM6 said:
The distinction between road cars and cars that are road legal is simply one of utility.
A road car must have:
1. all weather protection
2. some useable storage space
3. The ability to carry at least one passenger
4. the ability to negotiate all standard road traffic obstacles (humps etc) without external adjustment.
Oh yes, and the owner must be happy to leave it unattended in a public place.
Whether the owner decides to make use any of the above is beside the point.
Therefore, Ferraris, Veyrons and Lambos etc are road cars and Atoms, Caparos and Radicals etc are street legal track cars. Comparing them is a bit daft - you wouldn't compare a Eurofighter with a 747 would you?
PS. This is my first post, so be gentle with me!
The Atom has 2-4 covered but of course no weather protection, then again nor did the first cars yet they are still cars. Most owners are happy to leave them in a public place as well and they can easily cope with speed humps etc (rather better than the supercars TG took to that underground car park in Paris in fact)A road car must have:
1. all weather protection
2. some useable storage space
3. The ability to carry at least one passenger
4. the ability to negotiate all standard road traffic obstacles (humps etc) without external adjustment.
Oh yes, and the owner must be happy to leave it unattended in a public place.
Whether the owner decides to make use any of the above is beside the point.
Therefore, Ferraris, Veyrons and Lambos etc are road cars and Atoms, Caparos and Radicals etc are street legal track cars. Comparing them is a bit daft - you wouldn't compare a Eurofighter with a 747 would you?
PS. This is my first post, so be gentle with me!
Would not compare an Atom / Caterham to a Caparo / Radical as the latter are much more track focussed and impractical for road use.
Ben
I think the definition of what one can use as an everyday vehicle is highly subjective. In the past, I have used a bone stock 1956 Ford F100 pickup as a daily driver. Also a MKII Jag, and not a modified one either. And a '56 Ford Consul. And a '59 Ford Pop. Just because some can't do over 60, or the wipers stop going up a hill, or they don't have seatbelts or windscreen washers or the steering wheel's on the left or whatever does NOT make them unusable as everyday vehicles. In fact they're happier being used, and more reliable as a result.
I would happily use an Ultima, GT40 replica, Veyron (haha) or any other car as a daily driver if I felt like it. Stuff anyone who says I can't. So there.
I would happily use an Ultima, GT40 replica, Veyron (haha) or any other car as a daily driver if I felt like it. Stuff anyone who says I can't. So there.
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