RE: Mercedes C63 AMG
Discussion
WTF
You argue like an ex, always putting words in my mouth.
This is what I said:
You argue like an ex, always putting words in my mouth.
This is what I said:
shadowninja said:
If I owned a C63 AMG then I would drive within the capabilities of myself and the car, and not try to drive it like an Elise. I also suspect that being RWD and having huge amounts of power, it would be much more entertaining in the corners than the 4WD Audi; going sideways is everything.
Also, it's a psychology thing. If you know your car has super grip and control, you'll drive it harder and faster, which means when it cannot cope, you'll be going a lot quicker and so will make a bigger, more expensive mess. If your car's sliding all over the place at relatively slow speeds, you won't push it as hard and if you do lose it, won't have a problem catching or at least will make a cheap mess.
Which bit don't you understand?Also, it's a psychology thing. If you know your car has super grip and control, you'll drive it harder and faster, which means when it cannot cope, you'll be going a lot quicker and so will make a bigger, more expensive mess. If your car's sliding all over the place at relatively slow speeds, you won't push it as hard and if you do lose it, won't have a problem catching or at least will make a cheap mess.
Edited by shadowninja on Saturday 29th December 16:47
shadowninja said:
jimmyb said:
shadowninja said:
But in the RS4 if you drive it at 10 tenths, in the twisties, there's a good chance of an insurance claim... you can accelerate like a bugger in the AMG and it's very unlikely you'll crashed or spin the thing.
Clearly you are the one who needs to re read what you wrote ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Driven at 100% the rs4 wil come off the road fast and hard but the c63 wont. Or are you saying driven in a straight line at ten tenths the c63 will stay on the road if so bang on but why not differentiate between the two what you mean ? ? ? This is what i was responding to which unless i am reading it wrong you believe the merc will have better traction and more chance of staying on the road than the 4wd audi rs4??????????????????????????????????????????
jimmyb said:
C2HYM said:
Jimmyb by your rekoning the 500Hp E60 M5 should be near impossible to drive then with 50hp more than the C63 going through the same number of wheels. Correct?
And, all the stupid apple test shows, is that the Stig is a far superior driver to Clarkson does it not?
No both the m5 and c63 would be fine/brilliant in the straight bits but the m3/m5 is designed and set up from the word go as a sports saloon car whereas the merc is set up as a cruiser as are all mercs. Its the difference between the two manufacturers. BMW build sports saloon cars merc build cruising cars hence why mercs only come in auto (and yes i know you can specify a manual but no one does and thats for a reason).For this reason merc is at a disadvantage from the beginning as they have to make a cruising car into a sports car bmw dont. From what i understand from chatting to a guy who is a complete bmw nut each bmw ordered has a variety of suspension setups depending on how you spec the car although most people dont know about it apparently.And, all the stupid apple test shows, is that the Stig is a far superior driver to Clarkson does it not?
Anyway my point was that shadowninja seemed to think the c63 would thrash the rs4 on TWISTY bits which it wouldnt and couldnt unless merc have come up with some form of anti gravity device as 2wd is never going to be as sure footed as 4wd in the twisty bits or are you going to tell me that they use 4wd in rallying because they havent realised rwd of fwd is going to be better at keeping the car on the road and moving fast
Oh, and the suspension thing - MB have been doing this since the 60s... The 1986 190E 2.3-16, for example, has 360+ possible permutations of rear shock/spring/mount assemblies alone.
To further push that example, it also had variable geometry suspension - allowing adjusment of toe angle and camber. This was the first time MB had fitted this particular type of suspension to a road car, and it's been fitted to every single Merc ever since - current C-Class included.
Just to dig my hole if it was sideways I was going for it would be the m3 over the merc or rs4 anyday. More control which is i believe what clarkson and the boys were trying to convey with the apple test as the merc with no tc is going to be a b*tch to control (think Schumi to control it) on the limit compared to the m3 with no tc ( for us mere mortals).
Dunk76 said:
jimmyb said:
C2HYM said:
Jimmyb by your rekoning the 500Hp E60 M5 should be near impossible to drive then with 50hp more than the C63 going through the same number of wheels. Correct?
And, all the stupid apple test shows, is that the Stig is a far superior driver to Clarkson does it not?
No both the m5 and c63 would be fine/brilliant in the straight bits but the m3/m5 is designed and set up from the word go as a sports saloon car whereas the merc is set up as a cruiser as are all mercs. Its the difference between the two manufacturers. BMW build sports saloon cars merc build cruising cars hence why mercs only come in auto (and yes i know you can specify a manual but no one does and thats for a reason).For this reason merc is at a disadvantage from the beginning as they have to make a cruising car into a sports car bmw dont. From what i understand from chatting to a guy who is a complete bmw nut each bmw ordered has a variety of suspension setups depending on how you spec the car although most people dont know about it apparently.And, all the stupid apple test shows, is that the Stig is a far superior driver to Clarkson does it not?
Anyway my point was that shadowninja seemed to think the c63 would thrash the rs4 on TWISTY bits which it wouldnt and couldnt unless merc have come up with some form of anti gravity device as 2wd is never going to be as sure footed as 4wd in the twisty bits or are you going to tell me that they use 4wd in rallying because they havent realised rwd of fwd is going to be better at keeping the car on the road and moving fast
In case you didnt realise and this what you mean by i dont know what im talking about i was being sarcastic
ETA: Also as for the suspension bit I was unaware but am not surprised that merc do so as their ride is one of the things that makes them so popular as cruisers.
Thanks for that info was unaware and have now learnt something new though in retrospect i really should have guessed that for myself.
Jimmy, don't take this the wrong way, but you really haven't got any idea what you're going on about. Just go down WHSmiths, get a copy of Evo Jan 08, read, inwardly digest, then STFU.
Oh, and the suspension thing - MB have been doing this since the 60s... The 1986 190E 2.3-16, for example, has 360+ possible permutations of rear shock/spring/mount assemblies alone.
To further push that example, it also had variable geometry suspension - allowing adjusment of toe angle and camber. This was the first time MB had fitted this particular type of suspension to a road car, and it's been fitted to every single Merc ever since - current C-Class included.
Edited by jimmyb on Saturday 29th December 17:05
Edited by jimmyb on Saturday 29th December 17:07
BTW what does STFU mean?
Also didnt the 4x4 calibra have issues with their gearboxes or something due to the 4wd system cant remember. Good choice of cars very interesting.
oh how I laughed after a friend of mine bought one after i advised him not to and it promptly started taking itself to pieces turbo first. Awesome car tragedy about the reliability.
Also didnt the 4x4 calibra have issues with their gearboxes or something due to the 4wd system cant remember. Good choice of cars very interesting.
oh how I laughed after a friend of mine bought one after i advised him not to and it promptly started taking itself to pieces turbo first. Awesome car tragedy about the reliability.
Edited by jimmyb on Saturday 29th December 17:14
Edited by jimmyb on Saturday 29th December 17:16
shadowninja said:
Let's just blame the nice bottle of single malt you got for Christmas. 
Hmm that's a mighty frothy single malt.
Edited by shadowninja on Saturday 29th December 16:56
Anyways silliness aside which merc have you got as I have long been tempted by the old sl500 conv and have seen one advertised for a shade under ten k with a panoramic hard top with a mere 70-80k on the clock leather etc. Reliability costs etc.
jimmyb said:
BTW what does STFU mean?
Also didnt the 4x4 calibra have issues with their gearboxes or something due to the 4wd system cant remember. Good choice of cars very interesting.
oh how I laughed after a friend of mine bought one after i advised him not to and it promptly started taking itself to pieces turbo first. Awesome car tragedy about the reliability.
STFU - Shut the f**k up - all in the best possible sense, of course.Also didnt the 4x4 calibra have issues with their gearboxes or something due to the 4wd system cant remember. Good choice of cars very interesting.
oh how I laughed after a friend of mine bought one after i advised him not to and it promptly started taking itself to pieces turbo first. Awesome car tragedy about the reliability.
Calibra Turbo - yup, the Transfer box (bit which connects the front and rear drive axles) used to melt for a variety of reasons. There is/was a 50:50 locked upgrade available, which I had to put on mine - the original 7 clutch 60:40 item didn't take too kindly to the 2.4 conversion with 2.5bar boost and methanol/water injection
Reliability - in a word, rubbish. Amal valves were the worst, I used to get through 1 every couple of months.
Awesome things when tuned though... I used to take great delight in surprising proper supercars with it when it had 340bhp. Mine was lapping Goodwood at the same pace as a Grp N rally Sapphire Cosworth 4x4.
I have a CLK 55 AMG. Not as much power as the C63 AMG but it'll do me for now.
As for going sideways, I'd still take the AMG because it has more power and would therefore be easier to break traction with. You get used to it after a while and find it easier to control. Used to do the same with my old 650bhp Skyline.
As for going sideways, I'd still take the AMG because it has more power and would therefore be easier to break traction with. You get used to it after a while and find it easier to control. Used to do the same with my old 650bhp Skyline.
itr786 said:
A monster thats shit around bends, if i didn't know any better id think it was made over the pond by the fat yanks, for the fat yanks.
Don't think people realise how much quicker the M3 is compared to this 'thing', around the lap on top gear this week in was 5 SECONDS A LAP QUICKER!, and this wasn't the nurbergring (spell check), it was a 2.45mins circuit.
I don't think you do either. These cars have now been tested by many a magazine and tv show and Top gear is one of only two tests in which the M3 is the quicker car, (on a track-which is where most people never use them). Back in the day Top gear used to do proper road tests. Now it's all pratting about and seeing who can look the biggest idiot. If you want another useless bit of info about the M3, the C63 and the stopwatch. How about this; Don't think people realise how much quicker the M3 is compared to this 'thing', around the lap on top gear this week in was 5 SECONDS A LAP QUICKER!, and this wasn't the nurbergring (spell check), it was a 2.45mins circuit.
The C63 will be nearly 4 seconds ahead by the time both cars reach their limiters. That's a damned long way at 155MPH. You'd be luck to see it in your rear view mirror. Even in the dark.
tali1 said:
If it has to be a merc amg - reckon a CLS63 is a much better drive
Sorry that I'm late to the party, but why would you think that? The CLS is more expensive, therefore more upscale, with a nicer interior, etc. But a better drive than the C63? The magazines seem to be saying that the C63 is the first AMG Merc that is indeed a fantastic drive in more than just a straight line. I don't believe that any current AMG other than the CLK Black Series could possibly be a better drive than the C63.Miguel
Bit of an irrelevance including the RS4 anyways, as since the introduction of the R8, Audi dont have the capacity to make the two together & as such the RS4 isnt even made anymore.
Still have the AMG though, didnt you know that all M3 drivers are "cocks" ? (Mr Clarksons comment, not mine I hasten to add).
Still have the AMG though, didnt you know that all M3 drivers are "cocks" ? (Mr Clarksons comment, not mine I hasten to add).
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