RE: PH Heroes: Lotus Elise S2
Discussion
SJobson said:
Not sure the roof is that waterproof without assistance - at 2.5 years old (in 2004), I did an Andy Walsh day at North Weald in the pouring rain and there was a constant stream of water coming through the fabric! Once it was dry again, fabsil cured the problem.
Mine's leaked once in a torrential downpour ('04 short tailed roof)There is nobody more S1 orientated than me, I have two of them, both '96's, but I am not blinkered. Both the S1 and S2 are Elises and great cars, tis just that the S1 was the first and a completely new concept, but from then the cars got steadily heavier, had to compete in the market place, and satisfy accountants.
There will never again be the excitement and buzz that the original created, there was an 18 month waiting list, but time does not stand still, and 12 years later, despite different Group owners, she is still going strong and in many guises.
The great thing is that if you still want the original you can get a good one for less than £7k, or go the whole hog and buy one for £45K+ that reflects the modern market.
We still have the choice, and long may it last.
Cheers
tut
There will never again be the excitement and buzz that the original created, there was an 18 month waiting list, but time does not stand still, and 12 years later, despite different Group owners, she is still going strong and in many guises.
The great thing is that if you still want the original you can get a good one for less than £7k, or go the whole hog and buy one for £45K+ that reflects the modern market.
We still have the choice, and long may it last.
Cheers
tut
Amazing thing!I have been considering getting one but with all the comments above I am not sure if picking one or the other will be worth the grief.
A local dealer has offered to let me do a back to back comparison when he gets an S1 in so hopefully I will be able to make a decision. I have a feeling I will like both and it will just be a matter of buying the first 'right' one that I find.
A local dealer has offered to let me do a back to back comparison when he gets an S1 in so hopefully I will be able to make a decision. I have a feeling I will like both and it will just be a matter of buying the first 'right' one that I find.
No-one should confuse how loud or uncomfortable a car is with its handling finesse and performance. The S2 was designed for everyday use, so it's quieter with an easier hood. However, on the handling side it was also designed with bespoke tyres to get round the aquaplaning/grip trade off conundrum the S1 presented, stiffer suspension, it sits lower to the ground, and has had many of its handling gremlins (i.e. lift off oversteer) removed. The S2 is, however, heavier than the S1. My money would still be on an S2 for the better driver's car, probably a 135R for weekend and track blasts.
Sorry, but I can't see a VX220 in the picture
For me the S1 Elise perfectly defined the line between everyday usable and occassional track day car, so I bought one. It's hard to explain the excitement it caused when it came out in 1996 but all the old magazine articles I've kept from those times still make me smile.
Over the years it lost something as it got heavier and when it evolved into the S2, it lost something else in my view. The S2 is really just a bit too practical and the extra features and weight have diluted the original Elise brief a tad too far. There are some silly options and silly prices being paid for new S2 Elises, when it was always meant to be relatively cheap and fun motoring. Lotus quite rightly chased the market though to secure a future but, at the expense of some of its core values.
My circumstances changed and I went down a more hardcore route but I know I'll buy another S1 Elise at some time in the future. Unless the S3 model gets back to basics and introduces some real innovation and excites me in the way that the S1 did when it was launched. For now, an early Elise S1 is the one to have in your garage. The 2-eleven is just so tempting though.
Rob
Over the years it lost something as it got heavier and when it evolved into the S2, it lost something else in my view. The S2 is really just a bit too practical and the extra features and weight have diluted the original Elise brief a tad too far. There are some silly options and silly prices being paid for new S2 Elises, when it was always meant to be relatively cheap and fun motoring. Lotus quite rightly chased the market though to secure a future but, at the expense of some of its core values.
My circumstances changed and I went down a more hardcore route but I know I'll buy another S1 Elise at some time in the future. Unless the S3 model gets back to basics and introduces some real innovation and excites me in the way that the S1 did when it was launched. For now, an early Elise S1 is the one to have in your garage. The 2-eleven is just so tempting though.
Rob
I do laugh at the "S2 is lardy" comments no matter how often I see them repeated. You can get 'light' S2's. Sure, none of the brand new ones from Lotus are particularly light, but to dismiss all S2's because they are lardy seems a bit short sighted. There's almost 200kg between the models in S2 guise.
I have to admit with previous posters, it's the S1 that deserves the Heroes of Pistonheads badge. It was the car that saved / made Lotus and although far from perfect was still better than anything else on the market. That said however, the S2 is a great improvement in styling and I wouldn't buy an S1, unless it's an S1 Exige, which is far sexier and more meaningful than any S2 Exige to date, which to my mind isn't distinct enough from the Elise and I can't help seeing it as an Elise coupe.
I have an S2 btw, in case you're wondering.
I have an S2 btw, in case you're wondering.
Spot on ive got an elise s2 and an s1 my s2 is a 2002 with the K series engine but its got a supercharger straped to it and now its runing at 230bhp its an amazing car. but the s1 one there is less off and is alway going to keep its price the more s2 thay kick out the more the s1 price will go up but I think i will keep them both and my s1 exige but its more hardcore
DucatiGary said:
had both
s1 kills s2
really is a different car.
end of story.
Total rubbishs1 kills s2
really is a different car.
end of story.
Having had both, the S2 is by far the better car.
Yep the S1 was the originator but the S2 is a better car in every way, including driving. These days, only buy an S1 if you prefer greater levels of NVH (and like to call it rawness
).fatboy111 said:
DucatiGary said:
had both
s1 kills s2
really is a different car.
end of story.
Total rubbishs1 kills s2
really is a different car.
end of story.
Having had both, the S2 is by far the better car.
Yep the S1 was the originator but the S2 is a better car in every way, including driving. These days, only buy an S1 if you prefer greater levels of NVH (and like to call it rawness
).phil elise said:
Yer but the s1 was the start of things so hats off to the lads at lotus the s2 is more easy to live with but if you strip them down thay are the same car the s2 has just made its self better to fit in with evryone ie now u can have air con cup holders and sat nav and e/w c/L and the s1 never had any of this just a drivers car
But that was the whole point! The list of accessories and 'upgrades' you've listed turned a 720Kg car into something now well over 900Kg. I loved the car for its simplicity, purity and handling, something you view as a downside to the car!The soft-top was only ever meant to be a get you home affair on the S1 but people expect it to be fully waterproof and quiet on the S2. The latest S2 Elise is closer to a Porsche Boxster than an occassional track day car and this is reflected in the asking price for the higher specced models which now exceed £40k!
robcollingridge said:
phil elise said:
Yer but the s1 was the start of things so hats off to the lads at lotus the s2 is more easy to live with but if you strip them down thay are the same car the s2 has just made its self better to fit in with evryone ie now u can have air con cup holders and sat nav and e/w c/L and the s1 never had any of this just a drivers car
But that was the whole point! The list of accessories and 'upgrades' you've listed turned a 720Kg car into something now well over 900Kg. I loved the car for its simplicity, purity and handling, something you view as a downside to the car!The soft-top was only ever meant to be a get you home affair on the S1 but people expect it to be fully waterproof and quiet on the S2. The latest S2 Elise is closer to a Porsche Boxster than an occassional track day car and this is reflected in the asking price for the higher specced models which now exceed £40k!
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