RE: PH Heroes: Lotus Elise S2

[RobM77]

Firstly, those options are just that - options.

Secondly, we shouldn't get too hung up about counting kilograms. My S2 111S has full sound deadening, air con (I bought secondhand so didn't spec this useless feature!), carpets, comfy seats etc. It weighs 806kg, which is only about 75k heavier than the S1. I'd happily pay that price to experience it everyday in comfort. What use is a great driver's car that you leave in the garage all the time? Or drive round hood up because it takes minutes rather than seconds to get the hood up and down?

Thirdly, the S2 is genuinely useable on a day to day basis. The S1 was really a weekend car, so Caterhams etc damaged its case severely. When Lotus made the S1 I just had a Caterham for weekends... The S2, however, is a genuinely useable everyday car and I'd far rather own a car I can drive every day than one I just drive occasionally. If one of my cars had to go right now it'd be my Caterham, as quite simply, although it's the best to drive, it's the one I drive the least.

I'm not knocking the S1 - it's a great car. However, the S2 is a hero because it's a true lightweight driver's car that you can drive everyday, which is unique I think?

If it's cold and raining outside and I've had a long day at work, I get to drive home in the best road car I've ever driven. I still love it that much three years into ownership after driving it every day! That's rather wonderful

Edited by RobM77 on Thursday 21st February 09:50

[Jderh]

I really REALLY want one of these now more than ever. Wonderful cars.

[Scottie - NW]

Out of interest, how does the VX220 fit into these discussions between the differences between S1 and S2, has anybody owned a VX and a S1/S2 who can comment?

[LivinLaVidaLotus]

Agree with RobM here, the man talks sense. Also, lets not forget that Lotus aren't exactly given a choice in some of the extra weight due to safety regs etc. in various countries. At the end of the day, all credit to the S1, it started the saviour of Lotus, but without the S2 and its increased volumes due to broader appeal, we'd all be sat here saying, "Geee, the Elise (S1, but we'd not know it as an S1) was good, shame Lotus went under".

(Although I suppose, we owe credit to the VX really, seen as it funded the S2 production line)

Edited by LivinLaVidaLotus on Thursday 21st February 10:45

[kambites]

The VX220 weighs about the same as a modern S2 (900kg ish). It's set up to be softer than the S2 (except maybe the VXR?).

Comfort levels are similar to an early S2. Performance wise, the N/A VX220 is similar to a 120bhp S2 and the turbo is similar to a 111R although in both cases the Elise needs working harder to get at the performance.

[stevie111s]

I think everyone has a valid point that is based on their own personal experiences. For me, I came from low-cost 'sports' motoring (remember the Ginetta G15s ... I had two of them) so for me, the S1 represents motoring perfection, I take the NVH along with the 'feel' and am simply glad there is a heater to keep my toes warm.

But then I'm probably not in the 'mainstream'. I have a late S1 Sport 160s which is probably the pinacle of S1 production-line cars. I've also owned an S1 111s and an S1 Exige and admit that I enjoy the Sport 160 the most as it is quite understated, I found the Exige a little too OTT.

All IMHO of course.

[RobM77]

stevie111s said:

I think everyone has a valid point that is based on their own personal experiences. For me, I came from low-cost 'sports' motoring (remember the Ginetta G15s ... I had two of them) so for me, the S1 represents motoring perfection, I take the NVH along with the 'feel' and am simply glad there is a heater to keep my toes warm.

But then I'm probably not in the 'mainstream'. I have a late S1 Sport 160s which is probably the pinacle of S1 production-line cars. I've also owned an S1 111s and an S1 Exige and admit that I enjoy the Sport 160 the most as it is quite understated, I found the Exige a little too OTT.

All IMHO of course.

My point was referring to the fact that the feel in the S2, so far as I can tell from driving both, is no less than the S1. If anything the narrower front tyres give more feel through the steering. Maybe that's just my perception - it may be that the greater comfort of the S2 allows me to concentrate more on what feel there is.

[Gooby]

kambites said:

The VX220 weighs about the same as a modern S2 (900kg ish). It's set up to be softer than the S2 (except maybe the VXR?).

Comfort levels are similar to an early S2. Performance wise, the N/A VX220 is similar to a 120bhp S2 and the turbo is similar to a 111R although in both cases the Elise needs working harder to get at the performance.

What he means to say is the non vauxhall badged cars (Lotus) are for driving (does what it says on the tin), the vauxhall is heavy and lazy cos of the turbo.

[kambites]

Gooby said:

kambites said:

The VX220 weighs about the same as a modern S2 (900kg ish). It's set up to be softer than the S2 (except maybe the VXR?).

Comfort levels are similar to an early S2. Performance wise, the N/A VX220 is similar to a 120bhp S2 and the turbo is similar to a 111R although in both cases the Elise needs working harder to get at the performance.

What he means to say is the non vauxhall badged cars (Lotus) are for driving (does what it says on the tin), the vauxhall is heavy and lazy cos of the turbo.

that's another way of putting it.

[jonathannealeuk]

Sorry to differ but I used my S1 as a daily driver for over three years. I did have to put up with the leaking roof and getting in and out was a pain but the drive to work more than made up for it.

Having said that, my next one will be an S2 - it isn't just the car that puts on weight over time...

Jonathan

[I WISH]

"The second car was the first Lotus to be created on a computer, with a design brief to produce a shape that was both modern and timeless."

NO NO NO NO NO ......... THE S2 looks like it was created by a computer and it will look incredibly dated in about ten years time. I have grown to like it though (even with all those 'Max Power' black grilles .. ugh!).

The S1 on the other hand was created with love and care by real people and really IS genuinely timeless. It will still look just as pure and gorgeous on 50 years time.

I have an early ally disc S1 and I've driven a few S2s. The S1 is a much purer driving experience and arguably more fun. Colin Chapman would certainly have approved.

[Bada Bing!]

hbaumhardt said:

"The S2 Elise's tenacious front end grip is helped by the downforce created by the car’s aerodynamics."

LOL at "tenacious" and "downforce" ... unless the test car had 195 tyres, plynths machined for camber and a tigga! splitter Then you can enjoy S1 oversteer.

Edited by hbaumhardt on Wednesday 20th February 14:01

Have you driven an S2 in the wet? Tenacious is exactly how I'd describe the front end grip.

[Insight]

R.P.M said:

Only a 9 out of 10?

Must be a typo.

RPM

what the hell is ever going to get 10/10???

[RobM77]

Bada Bing! said:

hbaumhardt said:

"The S2 Elise's tenacious front end grip is helped by the downforce created by the car’s aerodynamics."

LOL at "tenacious" and "downforce" ... unless the test car had 195 tyres, plynths machined for camber and a tigga! splitter Then you can enjoy S1 oversteer.

Edited by hbaumhardt on Wednesday 20th February 14:01

Have you driven an S2 in the wet? Tenacious is exactly how I'd describe the front end grip.

I was at this track day in 2006 at Bedford: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PvYT8v5pagE That's my Lotus at the start of the video. The reason it's parked is that I've just finished a half hour session in a monsoon and because it's dried off my promised Radical passenger ride is about to occur as soon as this chap has checked the track's dry!

My S2 111S was beautifully balanced in such conditions. Having raced for 7 years now, I'm not shy to push a car, and there was absolutely no problem with understeer or oversteer predominating. Amazing handling.

I've also tracked it in the dry and that was fine too

The Elise has very little weight over the front, so it needs thinner tyres at the front to create the same pressure to drive water away in the wet. In the dry, these tyres need to be softer to give you more grip. The S2 had a bespoke tyre designed for it to give both these properties. Lotus didn't have the budget to do this with the S1, and as such it doesn't have as well resolved handling between wet and dry.

[chickensoup]

Bit harsh not mentioning the VX220 and the role of Vauxhall in the "improvements" made from S1 to S2 Elise. The skinny front tyres, lower sill etc were VX modifications taken by Lotus. Shame the looks and badge of the VX did not meet the mark, as the engine was at least Lotus designed

[kambites]

chickensoup said:

Bit harsh not mentioning the VX220 and the role of Vauxhall in the "improvements" made from S1 to S2 Elise. The skinny front tyres, lower sill etc were VX modifications taken by Lotus. Shame the looks and badge of the VX did not meet the mark, as the engine was at least Lotus designed

I don't think the Vauxhall looks bad... I know plenty of people who like the VX's styling more than either generation of Elise. It was solely the badge that let the VX down - Elise buyers are just as much badge snobs as anyone else (and yes, I'm an Elise owner).

I dithered very long and hard between a VX220t and an Elise S2 111S - my decision finally came down to running costs and my slight preference for the Elise's looks, the Elise being significantly cheaper over all (despite the heavier insurance). OK the VX isn't quite as sharp as the Elise because of the extra weight but it's not far behind and it'll still out-point anything else.

Edited by kambites on Friday 22 February 08:20

[FlossUK]

kambites said:

To my mind the S1 is too hardcore for a daily driver and too soft for a weekend toy - if I wanted a weekend toy/track car I'd look at Sevens and Atoms, not Lotuses.

The S2 is a good compromise between usability as a daily drive and fun at the weekends.

My A@s£ I use my S1 as a daily driver

[JamesG]

I owned an S1 Elise for a year or so. I intended it as a second car, but it was so much fun I drove it everyday.

When I had to downsize to a single car, I bought an S2 Elise. I went from a 160bhp S1 to a S2 111S, so they had similar power, but I found the old Elise quite a bit more fun to drive.

I have absolutely no regrets though. The S2 is still only 800kg and still an absolute hoot where ever I go. If it wasn't for the S2, I'd be driving something dull like a Boxster or S2000.

[MJK 24]

It is possible to have a lightweight S2 you know! I've got one.

No aircon
No cupholders
No remote central locking
No carpets
No extra sound deadening
No heardtop

Just a bog standard car.

I'm pretty sure that you can buy a new Elise S or R from Lotus in a very similar spec to my Race Tech but the dealer will likely bullst you into thinking that your residuals will plummet when all he wants to do is make yet more money from all the extras he wants you to spec.

[horsmai]

Come April I will be buying an elise. However I've been dithering between an S1 at around £8000, a S1 111s at around £10000 and an early S2, for months now.

I want to be using the car as much as possible and do have a banger as backup, but would rather not be running 2 cars if possible. Can anyone help with regard to the real day to day differences for these 3? I know the s1's roof isn't great, but i would plan on a hard top to deal with the weather (are these any good?) I assume running costs/relibility are all about out equal? Is the noise/comfort hugely better in the S2? what else, might sway my descision for daily driving?

A brief test drive, just isn't enough to tell me what it'll be like using throughout the year and i haven't managed a test driver in a s1 111s,, but I hear they are very noisy.

Looks-wise ideally I prefer the s2 front end but the s1's rounded rump, so that doesn't help