RE: Tygan Speedster

[zaktoo]

How does this not get messy in terms of copyright etc? Do Tygan pay royalties to Porsche for the body shape?

[Mon Ami Mate]

zaktoo said:

How does this not get messy in terms of copyright etc? Do Tygan pay royalties to Porsche for the body shape?

No. Porsche don't want them.

[zaktoo]

Mon Ami Mate said:

zaktoo said:

How does this not get messy in terms of copyright etc? Do Tygan pay royalties to Porsche for the body shape?

No. Porsche don't want them.

Odd. BTW, why is it called a "Speedster" if Tygan aren't wanting their product to be called a Porsche? I'm just struggling to reconcile all the contradictions inherent in this type of product...

[odyssey2200]

A few yerars ago Porsche won a legal case in Europe against PGO and forced then to stop building cars for "stealing an Iconic brand"

Thankfully PGO won on appeal but it shows you the lengths Porsche will go to.

[Davi]

odyssey2200 said:

Mon Ami Mate said:

odyssey2200 said:

IMHO its just wrong.
Like buying a fake Rolex.

As I have said, I'd prefer it if customers left our badge on our cars, but it's their decision and nothing to do with us. If you put Peugeot badges on your car would it be PGO's fault?

Edited by Mon Ami Mate on Thursday 6th March 16:45

But why would I do that?

Its not a Peugeot!

That like putting VW Beetle badges on a Tygan.

Its not, so its wrong!

Why are you buying a car that looks like a porsche at all then? You either buy a porsche, or you buy something completely different. Why are you buying a car that is virtually identical in outward appearance to a Porsche if you don't want a "fake"? Why not buy a ford focus - at least you'll be able to say you bought the original item.

And just in case you're considering it as a reply, the PGO may not be an exact replica externally, but I can promise you it HAS come as a direct descendant of the cal-look conversions run on both original and replica 356's.

[odyssey2200]

You could apply that to the Mini and fiat 500.

I like the overall look of the 356 but would not pay the asking price for what, to me is an overpriced car for what it offers (or doesn't offer).

If the Tygan were better priced I might have been more inclined to but one.
(apart from the fact that the guys at Chesil just put me off the whole idea of the car)

As it's too deal for what it it I chose the PGO.
IF I had bought a Tygan I would not have put Porsche badges on it.
Its disingenuous and sad.

As I said earlier the Cevennes is sililar as to appeal but different enough not to attract the comments.

"Wow mate Nice Porsche"
"Oh sorry, Just noticed its a Kit car"
"Couldn't you afford a proper one then?"

[Davi]

odyssey2200 said:

You could apply that to the Mini and fiat 500.

I like the overall look of the 356 but would not pay the asking price for what, to me is an overpriced car for what it offers (or doesn't offer).

If the Tygan were better priced I might have been more inclined to but one.
(apart from the fact that the guys at Chesil just put me off the whole idea of the car)

As it's too deal for what it it I chose the PGO.
IF I had bought a Tygan I would not have put Porsche badges on it.
Its disingenuous and sad.

As I said earlier the Cevennes is sililar as to appeal but different enough not to attract the comments.

"Wow mate Nice Porsche"
"Oh sorry, Just noticed its a Kit car"
"Couldn't you afford a proper one then?"

No you couldn't, they are main manufacturer re-creations!

So you like the overall look of the 356, but don't want to pay for one. You aren't buying a fake because you've justified it to yourself as such, yet others who put badges on are creating fakes... You are also more concerned with other peoples opinion of you and your car, than you are of your enjoyment of your purchase.

Sorry mate, sounds like the typical response to replica's - "They are all rubbish, you'd have to be sad to buy one just buy the original apart from the one II want which I can't afford either, therefore it's OK."

You either embrace them or reject them, anything else is only fooling yourself. The only sad thing about it is your and others like you limits of self justification!

[nervous]

So, in summary:

We all like 'em.

Except for the guy that doesnt, who for some reason thinks that the fact he doesnt like 'em means we shouldnt either.

Have I got that right? I wouldnt want to miss a salient point.

Odd-hissy, Im about to have fish for tea. Is that ok? Its my favorite, but I wont enjoy it unless I know you like it too.

[odyssey2200]

No
To sum up.
I am more than qualified to build a kit car.
I think the Tygan is far too dear for what it actually is.
Putting Porsche badges on a car that isn't a Porsche is just sad.

[Davi]

odyssey2200 said:

No
To sum up.
I am more than qualified to build a kit car.
I think the Tygan is far too dear for what it actually is.
Putting Porsche badges on a car that isn't a Porsche is just sad.

but buying a replica of a Porsche is fine, because you don't want a replica, they are sad, you just... ermmm.. ah.

[odyssey2200]

Davi said:

odyssey2200 said:

No
To sum up.
I am more than qualified to build a kit car.
I think the Tygan is far too dear for what it actually is.
Putting Porsche badges on a car that isn't a Porsche is just sad.

but buying a replica of a Porsche is fine, because you don't want a replica, they are sad, you just... ermmm.. ah.

No

I said buying a replica and pretending its something its not is sad.
So putting Porsche Badges on a Tygan is wrong!

[nervous]

odyssey2200 said:

I am more than qualified to build a kit car.

More qualified than who? than Tygan? If so, why arent you doing it? And if theyre over charging that much you could do it and make a fortune and sink Tygan over night. Think how dreamy that would be. You could come back here and we'd all have to bow before you- you'd be like a God to these people. Tempting, n'es pas?

odd sense of self importance said:

I think the Tygan is far too dear for what it actually is.

To you. Not to others though. Thats the crucial difference. Its a moveable feast, taste. Just like meals on wheels.

odd smell said:

Putting Porsche badges on a car that isn't a Porsche is just sad.

To you. Not to others though. Thats the crucial difference...oh, Hell- you can see where this is going, cant you?

Now, about this fish. Ive eaten it now, but Im still not sure about whether I liked it. If it helps, it didnt have the spine of a beetle. let me know how I feel as soon as you can please.

[Davi]

odyssey2200 said:

Davi said:

odyssey2200 said:

No
To sum up.
I am more than qualified to build a kit car.
I think the Tygan is far too dear for what it actually is.
Putting Porsche badges on a car that isn't a Porsche is just sad.

but buying a replica of a Porsche is fine, because you don't want a replica, they are sad, you just... ermmm.. ah.

No

I said buying a replica and pretending its something its not is sad.
So putting Porsche Badges on a Tygan is wrong!

You cannot escape the fact that the car is in it's own right pretending to be something it isn't - that's what a replica is by definition, and in this instance by virtue of the fact that the Tygan is a reproduction of the body style of a 356. If you are trying to claim you are against something pretending to be what it isn't, then you simply cannot be anything but against the 356 replica period You can't have it both ways.

[nervous]

Davi said:

You can't have it both ways.

exactly. objecting to the badges and not everything else is an utterly flawed argument.

[odyssey2200]

Davi said:

You can't have it both ways.

Sure I can

If a Replica is what you want, there are several out there in various forms from kits to complete builts cars.

SO if you want a Complete built car you can spend a shed load on an original (not a real option for many, myself included)or by a replica.

If you look at the Tygan emotively it is a very expensive bit of kit for what you get. Just too expensive IMHO.

But if you can justify to yourself that a Tygan is the way to go, then fine buy a Tygan.

But at least be honest enough and have the courage of your convictions to drive a car with Tygan writen on it.
Are you ashamed that you bought a Tygan and want people so desparetely to think you bought a Porsche.

Is it the modern version of putting a Turbo badge on your car even if it isn't turbocharged?

Having spent the best part of 10 months looking for a sports car in the style of the 356, having visited Chesil and PGO as well as talking to owners clubs etc and attending a few shows, I opted to spend slightly less money than the Tygan on a PGO and got a lot more car.

A Tygan would have set me back £36k ish for an air cooled car with Beetle bits and a Brazillian engine.

I paid signicantly less for an 07 plate PGO with Air con, 18 months manufactures warranty left, Leather seats and dash, Electric windows, and mirrors, decent CD/MP3 player and a shed load of other stuff as standard.

And it has a water cooled (so the heater actually works) Euro4 compliant 180 BHP engine with 5 speed box built in the Peugeot factory in France.

Would I put Porsche badges on it ?
No its not a Porsche.

Am I ashamed I bought it?
Not on your life!

Did I make the right decision
For me, YES!

[nervous]

odyssey2200 said:

But at least be honest enough and have the courage of your convictions to drive a car with Tygan writen on it.
Are you ashamed that you bought a Tygan and want people so desparetely to think you bought a Porsche.

So, your fine with it looking just like a Porsche, just not having Porsche written on it. You do realise of course that its the design that makes it say Porsche to most people, not the badge?

Im going to wait here while you go and look up the word 'replica'. Let me know when your done and we can talk more about how you want a car that looks 99.9% like the real thing, but only 99.9% like it. Either its 100% 'sad' or not at all, surely?

[cyberface]

odyssey2200 said:

But at least be honest enough and have the courage of your convictions to drive a car with Tygan writen on it.
Are you ashamed that you bought a Tygan and want people so desparetely to think you bought a Porsche.

Sorry odyssey2200 but you're talking arse, and it's all prejudiced crap based on how you perceive replicas. Calling people 'losers' because they want a 'new' 356 speedster is just the mark of a simple fool.

If Porsche were still building the cars, then buying a cheaper replica and putting Porsche badges on it would be 'trying too hard' and I'd probably agree with you. But the fact is that Porsche don't make 356 speedsters any more. If you want one, then you have a choice of an original (at high expense, and high maintenance costs, and these things are 'classics' that really shouldn't be used daily) or a replica. A replica means it looks *just* like the original, and is engineered as closely to the original but using modern parts to ensure the car is usable.

For many people, this means Porsche badges, and this isn't 'loser' territory because the car *is* a replica of the original. The fact that Porsche haven't been jumping on Chesil and now Tygan suggests that Porsche like the idea of the 356 speedster being made - a 'continuation' if you like - otherwise these small companies would have been crushed by Porsche's legal department many years ago. FFS the Chesil/Tygan is made from a mould off an original - it's not 'inspired by the 356', it's a bloody blatant copy of the car. If Porsche wanted it stopped they would have done. This gives the car some credibility IMO.

I've had a test drive in one because I'd love one, and I was impressed by the car. Unfortunately my sensible head won and I've put off any plans for buying a 356 speedster replica until I own a garage

FWIW there are people who buy top-end replica watches (the ones with ETA movements) to wear every day whilst their real Patek / Breguet / etc. stays in the watch winder. Personally I don't understand this - since the best watches will survive everyday wear (and if you've got a Patek, you've almost certainly got a collection with something suitable for rough use), but cars are different. If you want some fun without the cost and responsibility of driving a real 356 speedster on salty English roads, then the perfect replica makes a LOT of sense.

I'd love one. Would I go for Porsche badges? Still undecided, I don't currently own a Porsche but have had 3 in the past and love the marque, TBH I probably would. And yes, I'd refer to it as a 356 speedster replica - I have no problem with the idea, and certainly no nose-in-the-air disdain for the concept of replicas of cars no longer made.

Simply put, your attitude smells of snobbery, plain and simple.

[Davi]

nervous said:

odyssey2200 said:

But at least be honest enough and have the courage of your convictions to drive a car with Tygan writen on it.
Are you ashamed that you bought a Tygan and want people so desparetely to think you bought a Porsche.

So, your fine with it looking just like a Porsche, just not having Porsche written on it. You do realise of course that its the design that makes it say Porsche to most people, not the badge?

Im going to wait here while you go and look up the word 'replica'. Let me know when your done and we can talk more about how you want a car that looks 99.9% like the real thing, but only 99.9% like it. Either its 100% 'sad' or not at all, surely?

exactly nervous. As I say, it's back to the fairly standard response from the vast majority of the anti-replica brigade - it's sad when other people do what they want, but it's not sad when I do what I want for identical reasons. You can't have it both ways no matter what you convince yourself of to justify your purchase.

I think it's far sadder that someone would want to go to the effort of buying a replica but then want to make damn sure everyone else knew it isn't the real thing - that is purely looking for acceptance from others, rather than purchasing, building and enjoying something that you want, for your pleasure.

ETA I've not bought a Tygan, primarily because the joy of a car like this for me is building it - but if I did I'd replicate every, single , solitary detail - a testament to the original but possibly more importantly a challenge of my skills in the workshop. Anything less would be a waste of time. If questioned about it I'd proudly show how much effort I'd put into creating my replica - as opposed to buying one off the shelf and saying "yeah, look at me, I can hand over a cheque to someone for something they bought".

Edited by Davi on Thursday 6th March 19:53

[Plotloss]

As for design, one looks like a speedster, one doesnt.

One sounds like a speedster (or at least more like a speedster), one doesnt

If you want a speedster, I'd say you'd go for a Tygan if you're sensible, who gives a fk what badge is on it?

If you want a small car, thats cheap and contains the visual cues of the speedster have a PGO.

Just like the argument that raged on that Atom 500 thread about weight, surely theres space for both cars in the market without having to be disbaraging to either?

Christ, if you've got the cash, have both, an Atom 500 and a Phantom.

Genuinely, who gives a fk?

[nervous]

Plotloss said:

Genuinely, who gives a fk?

me. I cant abide snobs, especially self-serving ones.

And I cant let this go. Not until this bloke admits his argument is essentially contradictory. Theres something about the complete stupidity of it that fascinates me.

BFAM