RE: Tygan Speedster
Discussion
Davi said:
Mahatma Bag said:
All the above would be irrelevent if the 356 replica were priced stupidly cheap (a LOT of fake Rolexes are sold after all), but as I understand it it is priced at a level that would buy a pretty decent secondhand 911. Anyway, hope it works out.
oh dear, please tell me you are joking? It helps to know what you are competing against.
Not in the slightest. Of course you have to compare to the competition, but there is a point at which comparisons become useless - in particularly a new vehicle versus a second hand vehicle, where one is classically styled, one is modern etc etc. I don't see a correlation other than the Porsche badge.oh dear, please tell me you are joking? It helps to know what you are competing against.
Mon Ami Mate said:
but I would expect that most people here would feel some sort of natural empathy with a small business that makes sports cars, even if they wouldn't ever choose to buy one. I've been a member here for a lot longer than I've been involved in Tygan, because I love cars and motorcycles. I don't own Tygan - I have a very small share in it. I come to the business having been involved in journalism and PR for many years and I have several other motor industry related clients. I don't see the company or the cars as beyond reproach, and I absolutely welcome constructive criticism because we are focused on improving the business as much as we can. Am I biased? Of course I am! It's not easy to emotionally switch off though when people write unobjective, unsubstantiated negative criticism about something which is so close to the heart.
I don't believe you should expect "empathy" just because you choose to debate the merits of a given car on a forum that is for people who share a love of certain 4-wheel vehicles.As I said earlier, PH has a funny way of being quite insular and just because you love TVRs, doesn't mean you'll love Porsches, etc, etc. If you posted the above statement on speedsters.com, I'd agree. Nevertheless, I would never expect the same results on PH as love of one model/manufacturer rarely seems to translate to appreciation of another.
As for my comments, I don't believe I have said anything negative about your product other than imho the price point is too high. This is a personal preference, I'll admit that, and an opinion but one I fear the market may share due to the lack of success the previous owners of Chesil had. If Tygan offered a £19,999 Speedster with all the qualities you have expounded the new Tygan's have, I'd review my opinion.
The 2nd part that bothers me is that you can't or won't answer the question regarding the legal use of classic plates on the Tygan product. However, as I've asked the question more than once, I'm not going to ask it again but I fear you lack of a real response speaks for itself.
Very best of luck with the business.
Edited by nomis on Friday 7th March 19:41
nomis said:
Mon Ami Mate said:
but I would expect that most people here would feel some sort of natural empathy with a small business that makes sports cars, even if they wouldn't ever choose to buy one. I've been a member here for a lot longer than I've been involved in Tygan, because I love cars and motorcycles. I don't own Tygan - I have a very small share in it. I come to the business having been involved in journalism and PR for many years and I have several other motor industry related clients. I don't see the company or the cars as beyond reproach, and I absolutely welcome constructive criticism because we are focused on improving the business as much as we can. Am I biased? Of course I am! It's not easy to emotionally switch off though when people write unobjective, unsubstantiated negative criticism about something which is so close to the heart.
I don't believe you should expect "empathy" just because you choose to debate the merits of a given car on a forum that is for people who share a love of certain 4-wheel vehicles.As I said earlier, PH has a funny way of being quite insular and just because you love TVRs, doesn't mean you'll love Porsches, etc, etc. If you posted the above statement on speedsters.com, I'd agree. Nevertheless, I would never expect the same results on PH as love of one model/manufacturer never rarely seems to translate to appreciation of another.
As for my comments, I don't believe I have said anything negative about your product other than imho the price point is too high. This is a personal preference, I'll admit that, and an opinion but one I fear the market may share due to the lack of success the previous owners of Chesil had. If Tygan offered a £19,999 Speedster with all the qualities you have expounded the new Tygan's have, I'd review my opinion.
The 2nd part that bothers me is that you can't or won't answer the question regarding the legal use of classic plates on the Tygan product. However, as I've asked the question more than once, I'm not going to ask it again but I fear you lack of a real response speaks for itself.
Very best of luck with the business.
Davi said:
I Don't believe I've misquoted anyone at all, I was simply trying to summarise the position as I see it. My apologies though as re-reading your posts in the Fake Ferrari thread it would appear I was a little harsh on you -
No apology necessary, but here's why I said you misquoted me: Firstly, you wrote that I said that rebodied cars are "sad," which I didn't say. I said that they were silly. OK it's a seemingly minor difference, but to me, it seems that calling it sad is far harsher, and I was not trying to convey that. Second, and more importantly, you didn't respond directly to any of my other points and, instead, just jumped to the conclusion that I hated all kit cars and replicas, which could not be further from the truth. You could have at least asked me what my position was. Also, you said that I knocked all replicas that I didn't like, but I made it clear that there are some that I admire and won't knock, even if they're not to my automotive taste.Davi said:
- I was just slightly confused as to why a semi-replica body placed on modern running running gear in the Ferrari thread was greeted with disdain, but on this thread you wanted a semi-replica body but with modern running gear - if that makes sense.
The answer is obvious: It's because, as a human being, I'm a walking, talking contradiction. 
Seriously, that's a fair point. I can appreciate any car that someone makes, whether it's an extremely talented person building one from scratch or kit. I also admire those who try to put something out there in the market, whether it's a kit, something like the Noble, etc. Whatever it is, it's a car. Rebody kits are just that: A different body. The car already exists. There's not a new car there.I like (or at least admire) replicas that capture the spirit and the driving experience of the original car. I also may like some that take a different approach, such as the PGO or Specialty Auto of Knoxville 356 replicas. They'll be different to drive from the real thing but will still be a unique driving experience, which is far more than can be said for most mainstream manufactured cars.
And there's the key point for me: The driving experience. I'm not interested in existing cars rebodied as replicas because that doesn't change the driving experience. If it does, then whatever was done to the car to change that can also be done to the car while keeping the stock body. I disagree with the analogy that a good replica is like having a fake high-end watch because it's something you get to drive. I do, however, agree with it regarding rebodied cars as replicas. The car and, thus, the driving experience already exists, so it's not about the car at all, but the owner's ego, or so it seems to me.
Davi said:
Personally I agree that a Ferrari bodykit on an MR2 doesn't look that good - though there are some excellent examples of reproduction Ferrari's out there based on various running gear. Some even manage to get them to break down almost as regularly as the real thing
Only if they don't use Japanese mechanicals. Yes, any Ferrari replica based on an MR2 of Fiero looks terrible, but, like I said above, that's only a small part of the problem for me. Again, I'm fine with the various different companies that make GT40 replicas based on their own chassis, such as Race Car Replicas out of the US, Superformance, several English companies, etc., but I can't deal with a Fiero rebodied to look like a GT40. Even if its proportions looked right, I just don't get it. Same for the many Cobra replicas that exist. There are many good ones out there, but I wouldn't want the one that's essentially a rebodied MGB.Davi said:
What gets right on my wick is the typical double standards we see here on PH as I've stated - people that want to label replica owners and builders as sad losers and attempt to apply their own insecurities onto the would-be owner, assuming it's because they can't afford the original. They apply that theory, however, only to vehicles that aren't in their list of ones to own or meet their specific criteria, when it suddenly isn't sad at all!
Yes, I can understand that. Still, you haven't responded directly to my point before: What would you say to a RR Phantom replica if it were a rebodied London taxi? What about a Maybach replica which was a rebodied VW Passat? I made those up, but the Aston Martin "replica" based on the Mazda MX5 is real? Don't any of these seem silly to you? Miguel
I would prefer the Tygan or Beck or most other 356 Replicas over the PGO.
For my part I think the PGO is trading off the original Porsche design then trying to pretend not to be a Replica, but in truth most people who look at it will see a "Pimped Up" Speedster IMHO.
Unsubstantiated negative criticism shouldnt really bother you, it happens a lot and will continue to happen if your involved in car building, read any book on great car builders, all of them at some time got fleeced, so suck it up and move on.
Good luck with the Tygan,
For my part I think the PGO is trading off the original Porsche design then trying to pretend not to be a Replica, but in truth most people who look at it will see a "Pimped Up" Speedster IMHO.
Unsubstantiated negative criticism shouldnt really bother you, it happens a lot and will continue to happen if your involved in car building, read any book on great car builders, all of them at some time got fleeced, so suck it up and move on.
Good luck with the Tygan,
Miguel said:
lots of sensible stuff
I particularly like the walking contradiction bit Miguel said:
Yes, I can understand that. Still, you haven't responded directly to my point before: What would you say to a RR Phantom replica if it were a rebodied London taxi? What about a Maybach replica which was a rebodied VW Passat? I made those up, but the Aston Martin "replica" based on the Mazda MX5 is real? Don't any of these seem silly to you?
Miguel
They wouldn't be to my taste, I don't like the Maybach or the Phantom (LOL that's a nit understated, like saying I don't like being punched in the nuts...), and the Aston Martin "replica" I don't think is particularly well executed - it's proportions are very very wrong, doesn't work as a replica for me at all. The concept of them doesn't seem silly to me though - it's just all in the execution as to if they can work. Miguel
There was one F355 rebody shown recently on here that was without doubt the best I've seen. Accuracy was fantastic and I was seriously impressed with the workmanship on it. Quality Engineering always impresses me no matter what the basis for it.
Tygan are obviously going for quality so well done-but in California there are similar brand new turnkey cars around for $25,000 dollars and at $2=£1 currently that's £12,500 and built on a '57 chassis so would not attract car tax although left hand drive which personally I would prefer.
When is the UK car buyer going to be treated fairly on prices.The Porsche US price list is highly educational, the new Nissan GTR, Corvette, Mustang all with lots of profit built in when they reach the UK.We are still rip-off land or Treasure Island as the manufacturers call us.
When is the UK car buyer going to be treated fairly on prices.The Porsche US price list is highly educational, the new Nissan GTR, Corvette, Mustang all with lots of profit built in when they reach the UK.We are still rip-off land or Treasure Island as the manufacturers call us.
pagani1 said:
Tygan are obviously going for quality so well done-but in California there are similar brand new turnkey cars around for $25,000 dollars and at $2=£1 currently that's £12,500 and built on a '57 chassis so would not attract car tax although left hand drive which personally I would prefer.
When is the UK car buyer going to be treated fairly on prices.The Porsche US price list is highly educational, the new Nissan GTR, Corvette, Mustang all with lots of profit built in when they reach the UK.We are still rip-off land or Treasure Island as the manufacturers call us.
Pricing is a tricky issue. We aren't a big company - we employ 12 people. We have a three month order book and we can turn out about six cars a month at current staffing levels. Each car takes something like six weeks to put together - and is completely hand built. It is a time intensive process and we are determined to get quality as high as possible, because we are proud of what we do and we want people to associate our brand with that pride and quality.When is the UK car buyer going to be treated fairly on prices.The Porsche US price list is highly educational, the new Nissan GTR, Corvette, Mustang all with lots of profit built in when they reach the UK.We are still rip-off land or Treasure Island as the manufacturers call us.
You can buy a turnkey Tygan Speedster for low £20k's - and it will be built to the same standard as a fully specced car which will cost mid £30k's. For what goes into it I think that's pretty good value. It isn't a question of us not treaty British consumers fairly - we aren't Nissan or Chevrolet or Ford, or even Lotus or Morgan - we are a tiny niche player.
We are planning to expand the company in terms of the models we make and the physical size of the business, and as we grow we should be able to experience more economies of scale. It will be years before the investors see a return though, we aren't doing this to make a quick buck. Was it Ken Tyrrell who said that the best way to make a small fortune out of motorsport was to start with a big one?
Mahatma Bag said:
What made you go with the 356? I would have thought the 550 was the more iconic shape of that era and it also has the Jimmy D factor?
We are currently developing a 550, with a space frame chassis and larger, more powerful engines. We showed the first car at MPH and hope to be able to start taking orders in the summer.Been into Hot Rods for 20 years, had cars shown at Goodwood etc.....Just fancied a change and the 356 has been on my mind for longer than I can remember.
Tygan/Chesil have always been at the forerfront (in my opinion) of quality, and no there not cheap, but iff i wanted cheap I would have baught an inferior quality option. After you have been into High end Hot rods a Tygan is cheap!!!
Tygan/Chesil have always been at the forerfront (in my opinion) of quality, and no there not cheap, but iff i wanted cheap I would have baught an inferior quality option. After you have been into High end Hot rods a Tygan is cheap!!!
I'm delighted someone rescued Chesil, they continue to make what I consider to be a truly beautiful car.
I drove an original 356 at Baron's auction house and actually preferred the Chesil (at the time) much to my surprise.
In my opinion the PGO looks awful - a poor attempt at updating a classic design, and it looks gawdy. Pity they couldn't make a better job of it like BMW did with the Mini, or Fiat have done with the new 500.
Still, each to their own.
I drove an original 356 at Baron's auction house and actually preferred the Chesil (at the time) much to my surprise.
In my opinion the PGO looks awful - a poor attempt at updating a classic design, and it looks gawdy. Pity they couldn't make a better job of it like BMW did with the Mini, or Fiat have done with the new 500.
Still, each to their own.
Can someone give me advice please on purchasing a Chesil or a PGO Cevennes? Love the Porsche 356 speedster & both look beautiful but which is the right car to buy? Which will hold it’s value? Found a PGO Cevennes with only 3,500 miles on the clock & can get for £20,000. What is the servicing & tyre replacement on the PGO? Thank you
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