RE: Audi R8 V12 TDI
Discussion
johnph said:
AngryS3Owner said:
I however hate the fact that it'll sound like a dyson and also am not happy about the fact it's made LeMans dull because it's so quiet, however that's because of all the filters they need to use to stop it killing us all.
Yawn... more diesel bulls
t whining. There were 53 cars at LM last year, only 5 of them were diesels. That left us with 48 noisy cars, not what I call boring, especially when you have the Corvettes, Astons, Ferraris, Porsches and the Judd, AER and Zytek powered cars all screaming by you at 4am
. You'd be whinging if the diesels made noise, tbh i'd prefer diesels on the road to be quiet as the noise they make isn't that amazing. You ever been to LM? Do you even have an idea of the history of the race?
Read this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Le_Mans_24_Hours#Purp...
And this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Le_Mans_24_Hours#Inno...
And diesel does not 'kill us all'
The level of ignorance round here is stunning. Edited by johnph on Tuesday 8th April 11:10
All things aside I've driven a few fast diesels (BMW 330d and another audi) and they are a hoot, mountains of torque and pace, so this thing in full bore spec would be outrageous. In the real world I think anything bar a veyron would be hard pushed to live with 740 lb ft of tourque. I want one.
Mr Whippy said:
As interesting as it is, I'm not really impressed, a big diesel engine in a big car? Wow, they pulled out all the stops with that elegant solution.
Now, how about a 200bhp diesel Elise type car, weighing under a tonne, and having a supercharger to in-fill the curve off-boost.
Now THAT would get me interested.
Dave
why?Now, how about a 200bhp diesel Elise type car, weighing under a tonne, and having a supercharger to in-fill the curve off-boost.
Now THAT would get me interested.
Dave
we already have 330+Bhp Elises running about doing 40+ Mpg, 0-100 in under 8 sec's and they don't cost £100K+
Polarbert said:
johnph said:
AngryS3Owner said:
I however hate the fact that it'll sound like a dyson and also am not happy about the fact it's made LeMans dull because it's so quiet, however that's because of all the filters they need to use to stop it killing us all.
Yawn... more diesel bullst whining. There were 53 cars at LM last year, only 5 of them were diesels. That left us with 48 noisy cars, not what I call boring, especially when you have the Corvettes, Astons, Ferraris, Porsches and the Judd, AER and Zytek powered cars all screaming by you at 4am
. You'd be whinging if the diesels made noise, tbh i'd prefer diesels on the road to be quiet as the noise they make isn't that amazing. You ever been to LM? Do you even have an idea of the history of the race?
Read this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Le_Mans_24_Hours#Purp...
And this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Le_Mans_24_Hours#Inno...
And diesel does not 'kill us all'
The level of ignorance round here is stunning. Edited by johnph on Tuesday 8th April 11:10
Henri has already said that sponsers are not willing to stump up the cash when the manufacturers Diesels are given a clear path to win....
Edited by Scuffers on Tuesday 8th April 13:47
So the guys were given 3 months to build a revolutionary car, I think before this car hits the roads (sorry if) there will be some changes. Here's one example, V12 6L diesel must weigh quite a bit more than the normal petrol engine found in the R8, surely that does something to the handling? Or does the standard R8 suspension cope with the extra weight fine? Any way the point I was getting at is, 3 months can't be long enough to build a revolutionary car, ye the chassis are there along with the shell and what have you but I'm sure it takes more than just dropping a different engine into the car.
I am sounding a bit negative towards this car it's probably because of my feelings towards diesels, but I gotta say these torque figures are impressive. I'm happy Audi are pushing the boundaries and taking a gamble on developing a car that has such high risk on selling, I wish all car manufacturers had the balls to do the same.
And please do not post any crappy comments to me about my perception of diesels, I respect them I just don't wanna own them.
I am sounding a bit negative towards this car it's probably because of my feelings towards diesels, but I gotta say these torque figures are impressive. I'm happy Audi are pushing the boundaries and taking a gamble on developing a car that has such high risk on selling, I wish all car manufacturers had the balls to do the same.
And please do not post any crappy comments to me about my perception of diesels, I respect them I just don't wanna own them.
Scuffers said:
Mr Whippy said:
As interesting as it is, I'm not really impressed, a big diesel engine in a big car? Wow, they pulled out all the stops with that elegant solution.
Now, how about a 200bhp diesel Elise type car, weighing under a tonne, and having a supercharger to in-fill the curve off-boost.
Now THAT would get me interested.
Dave
why?Now, how about a 200bhp diesel Elise type car, weighing under a tonne, and having a supercharger to in-fill the curve off-boost.
Now THAT would get me interested.
Dave
we already have 330+Bhp Elises running about doing 40+ Mpg, 0-100 in under 8 sec's and they don't cost £100K+
A ~ 600bhp R8 that just so happens to be diesel, wow, why is that even impressive? Wow, big engine + turbo's = big power
What would be nice would be an innovative use of different charging methods, in a small lightweight car, to give it huge performance, tractability, response, and range...
This diesel R8 proves very little except you can put a big powerful engine in a big car, the fuel type seems irrelevant, and either will be good for this kind of car, be it a big turbo petrol or big turbo diesel.
A small lightweight focussed sports car however. If you can make the diesel version of that BETTER than the petrol version, THEN you prove a point about diesel.
This R8 proves nothing except you can put a big engine in a big car. Whoopie bloody doo!
Dave
Scuffers said:
Polarbert said:
johnph said:
AngryS3Owner said:
I however hate the fact that it'll sound like a dyson and also am not happy about the fact it's made LeMans dull because it's so quiet, however that's because of all the filters they need to use to stop it killing us all.
Yawn... more diesel bullst whining. There were 53 cars at LM last year, only 5 of them were diesels. That left us with 48 noisy cars, not what I call boring, especially when you have the Corvettes, Astons, Ferraris, Porsches and the Judd, AER and Zytek powered cars all screaming by you at 4am
. You'd be whinging if the diesels made noise, tbh i'd prefer diesels on the road to be quiet as the noise they make isn't that amazing. You ever been to LM? Do you even have an idea of the history of the race?
Read this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Le_Mans_24_Hours#Purp...
And this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Le_Mans_24_Hours#Inno...
And diesel does not 'kill us all'
The level of ignorance round here is stunning. Edited by johnph on Tuesday 8th April 11:10
Henri has already said that sponsers are not willing to stump up the cash when the manufacturers Diesels are given a clear path to win....
Edited by Scuffers on Tuesday 8th April 13:47
What Audi and Pug have said is that all anyone needs to do to compete them is get an LMP1 petrol engine to produce over 650bhp and the weight advantage of a petrol engine and larger fuel tank takes care of itself. The ACO rules re.production engines are redressing the balance and i'm looking forward to some good diesel v petrol LM24s in the years to come.
Re. Fuel consumption the diesels have got smaller fuel tanks, 81 litres as opposed to the petrol's 90 litres.
Re. the 'carcinogenic' comments I read on the previous page, the Audi R10s are using a GTL diesel made from natural gas
http://www.shell.com/home/content/aboutshell-en/wh...
combined with the filters its very clean.
Edited by johnph on Tuesday 8th April 15:06
IIRC the Bentleys (Arnage T/Brooklands), Merc Sl65, Brabus Rocket all produce the 1000Nm of torque headline figure.
Since all of these engines have the torque at higher revs they will all produce more power, so is this such a magical step forward?
Don't get me wrong, i think it's great Audi are trying something new but the problem with high torque engines is finding drivetrains that will cope with them. This is what has limited higher torque petrol engines. Therefore this doesn't address a problem, just runs into the same problems petrol cars have!!)
Since all of these engines have the torque at higher revs they will all produce more power, so is this such a magical step forward?
Don't get me wrong, i think it's great Audi are trying something new but the problem with high torque engines is finding drivetrains that will cope with them. This is what has limited higher torque petrol engines. Therefore this doesn't address a problem, just runs into the same problems petrol cars have!!)
erm one sentence-----
"they have destroyed the R8 brand and the supercar image in one hit"
audi want money thats it, all they do is get a platform or borrow a vw and stick
as many engines in it as possible, at least the R8 was kind of special and then what
do they do, stick loads of engines in it inc a diesel, vw/audi stick to family cars
and rep wagons and stay away from sports/supercars as you make a joke of it all.
"they have destroyed the R8 brand and the supercar image in one hit"
audi want money thats it, all they do is get a platform or borrow a vw and stick
as many engines in it as possible, at least the R8 was kind of special and then what
do they do, stick loads of engines in it inc a diesel, vw/audi stick to family cars
and rep wagons and stay away from sports/supercars as you make a joke of it all.
karluk29 said:
erm one sentence-----
"they have destroyed the R8 brand and the supercar image in one hit"
audi want money thats it, all they do is get a platform or borrow a vw and stick
as many engines in it as possible, at least the R8 was kind of special and then what
do they do, stick loads of engines in it inc a diesel, vw/audi stick to family cars
and rep wagons and stay away from sports/supercars as you make a joke of it all.
What is wrong with you people and diesel supercars?? Do you have nightmares about them or something?"they have destroyed the R8 brand and the supercar image in one hit"
audi want money thats it, all they do is get a platform or borrow a vw and stick
as many engines in it as possible, at least the R8 was kind of special and then what
do they do, stick loads of engines in it inc a diesel, vw/audi stick to family cars
and rep wagons and stay away from sports/supercars as you make a joke of it all.
Its a car with a diesel engine. Get over it. If you dont like >>> F O >>>>
karluk29 said:
erm one sentence-----
"they have destroyed the R8 brand and the supercar image in one hit"
audi want money thats it, all they do is get a platform or borrow a vw and stick
as many engines in it as possible, at least the R8 was kind of special and then what
do they do, stick loads of engines in it inc a diesel, vw/audi stick to family cars
and rep wagons and stay away from sports/supercars as you make a joke of it all.
No they haven't at all, that is b***ocks"they have destroyed the R8 brand and the supercar image in one hit"
audi want money thats it, all they do is get a platform or borrow a vw and stick
as many engines in it as possible, at least the R8 was kind of special and then what
do they do, stick loads of engines in it inc a diesel, vw/audi stick to family cars
and rep wagons and stay away from sports/supercars as you make a joke of it all.
all this anti le mans "its boring cos the diesel isnt noisy" bks pisses me off,I wouldnt buy one and prefer the noisy ones tbh,
but isnt le mans brilliance all about the different classes of car competing? there is room for all hats off to em not my cup of tea but engineering excellence,the pug aint bad either cant we just appreciate another type of car?
watching the audi going thru tet rouge at night in the rain was awsome as were all the cars you can see the speed diferential out of the bends/chickanes they look and I think sound great!
cant wait for this year hope the rs spyders do well as they have in the alms!
ks pisses me off,I wouldnt buy one and prefer the noisy ones tbh,but isnt le mans brilliance all about the different classes of car competing? there is room for all hats off to em not my cup of tea but engineering excellence,the pug aint bad either cant we just appreciate another type of car?
watching the audi going thru tet rouge at night in the rain was awsome as were all the cars you can see the speed diferential out of the bends/chickanes they look and I think sound great!
cant wait for this year hope the rs spyders do well as they have in the alms!
Micro particles rejected by diesel engines are bad for health and if they spread into the atmosphere, which they do in an alarming wide scale as only a fraction of diesel-powered cars today have the specific filter, they do not disappear.
CO2 is not bad for health and it is not a pollutant ; all mammals reject CO2.
If people were serious enough about fighting the so-called "excess" of CO2 in the atmosphere they would first plant some more trees - interesting how the mass media have forgotten the destruction of the amazon forest which has been the lung of the Earth. And there is nothing like trees that can absorb micro particles rejected by diesel engines.
Diesel engines badly degrade breathing conditions. Anyone who has lived in a dense and large european city and witnessed the change of fuel use throughout the 90s to these days will agree.
Car manufacturers will keep spending money on developing diesel engines as long as diesel will be cheaper than petrol to the end consumer, which means that when diesel will be as expensive as petrol at the oil pump the world might begin to become a slightly better place.
CO2 is not bad for health and it is not a pollutant ; all mammals reject CO2.
If people were serious enough about fighting the so-called "excess" of CO2 in the atmosphere they would first plant some more trees - interesting how the mass media have forgotten the destruction of the amazon forest which has been the lung of the Earth. And there is nothing like trees that can absorb micro particles rejected by diesel engines.
Diesel engines badly degrade breathing conditions. Anyone who has lived in a dense and large european city and witnessed the change of fuel use throughout the 90s to these days will agree.
Car manufacturers will keep spending money on developing diesel engines as long as diesel will be cheaper than petrol to the end consumer, which means that when diesel will be as expensive as petrol at the oil pump the world might begin to become a slightly better place.
Edited by Thom on Tuesday 8th April 18:54
johnph said:
The ACO are giving performance breaks to production-derived engines that run in LMP1 - in the LMS at the weekend the Lola coupe running an Aston Martin engine managed to split the Audis in qualifying and was standing up quite well in the race.
What Audi and Pug have said is that all anyone needs to do to compete them is get an LMP1 petrol engine to produce over 650bhp and the weight advantage of a petrol engine and larger fuel tank takes care of itself. The ACO rules re.production engines are redressing the balance and i'm looking forward to some good diesel v petrol LM24s in the years to come.
Re. Fuel consumption the diesels have got smaller fuel tanks, 81 litres as opposed to the petrol's 90 litres.
which ever way you look at it, the diesels have a massive advantage.What Audi and Pug have said is that all anyone needs to do to compete them is get an LMP1 petrol engine to produce over 650bhp and the weight advantage of a petrol engine and larger fuel tank takes care of itself. The ACO rules re.production engines are redressing the balance and i'm looking forward to some good diesel v petrol LM24s in the years to come.
Re. Fuel consumption the diesels have got smaller fuel tanks, 81 litres as opposed to the petrol's 90 litres.
if you want to make it a level playingfield, let them run the SAME capacity as the petrol engined cars (and also the same rules for turbo's and restrictors).
also, the fuel they run is about as far removed from road diesel, it might as well be rocket fuel, ignoring that, it's calorific value is way higher than the 90/81 break ACO have picked.
whichever way you look at it, the rules are rigged for the diesels, if you don't belive me, just ask ladbrooks what the odds are on a diesel car winning this years Le-Man's....
Mr Whippy said:
This R8 proves nothing except you can put a big engine in a big car. Whoopie bloody doo!
But surely thats what any supercar does..... Its difference is that it is a diesel, people may not like that but at least they're trying something different.Edited by NightDriver on Tuesday 8th April 18:53
Scuffers said:
Polarbert said:
johnph said:
AngryS3Owner said:
I however hate the fact that it'll sound like a dyson and also am not happy about the fact it's made LeMans dull because it's so quiet, however that's because of all the filters they need to use to stop it killing us all.
Yawn... more diesel bullst whining. There were 53 cars at LM last year, only 5 of them were diesels. That left us with 48 noisy cars, not what I call boring, especially when you have the Corvettes, Astons, Ferraris, Porsches and the Judd, AER and Zytek powered cars all screaming by you at 4am
. You'd be whinging if the diesels made noise, tbh i'd prefer diesels on the road to be quiet as the noise they make isn't that amazing. You ever been to LM? Do you even have an idea of the history of the race?
Read this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Le_Mans_24_Hours#Purp...
And this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Le_Mans_24_Hours#Inno...
And diesel does not 'kill us all'
The level of ignorance round here is stunning. Edited by johnph on Tuesday 8th April 11:10
Henri has already said that sponsers are not willing to stump up the cash when the manufacturers Diesels are given a clear path to win....
Edited by Scuffers on Tuesday 8th April 13:47
Porsche's LMP2 beat them at Sebring......
johnph said:
Scuffers said:
Polarbert said:
johnph said:
AngryS3Owner said:
I however hate the fact that it'll sound like a dyson and also am not happy about the fact it's made LeMans dull because it's so quiet, however that's because of all the filters they need to use to stop it killing us all.
Yawn... more diesel bullst whining. There were 53 cars at LM last year, only 5 of them were diesels. That left us with 48 noisy cars, not what I call boring, especially when you have the Corvettes, Astons, Ferraris, Porsches and the Judd, AER and Zytek powered cars all screaming by you at 4am
. You'd be whinging if the diesels made noise, tbh i'd prefer diesels on the road to be quiet as the noise they make isn't that amazing. You ever been to LM? Do you even have an idea of the history of the race?
Read this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Le_Mans_24_Hours#Purp...
And this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Le_Mans_24_Hours#Inno...
And diesel does not 'kill us all'
The level of ignorance round here is stunning. Edited by johnph on Tuesday 8th April 11:10
Henri has already said that sponsers are not willing to stump up the cash when the manufacturers Diesels are given a clear path to win....
Edited by Scuffers on Tuesday 8th April 13:47
What Audi and Pug have said is that all anyone needs to do to compete them is get an LMP1 petrol engine to produce over 650bhp and the weight advantage of a petrol engine and larger fuel tank takes care of itself. The ACO rules re.production engines are redressing the balance and i'm looking forward to some good diesel v petrol LM24s in the years to come.
Re. Fuel consumption the diesels have got smaller fuel tanks, 81 litres as opposed to the petrol's 90 litres.
Re. the 'carcinogenic' comments I read on the previous page, the Audi R10s are using a GTL diesel made from natural gas
http://www.shell.com/home/content/aboutshell-en/wh...
combined with the filters its very clean.
Edited by johnph on Tuesday 8th April 15:06
If this were intended for production, then why wasn't the car engineered to take the V12 in the first place ?
I think it's a publicity stunt and would expect a few more based around the R8. I believe sales will slacken off next year after initial hype has died down.
Although very well road tested by many mags, I think many real world punters with £90K to spend will see it as a fancy TT, which in turn is seen as just a fancy Golf. They want people to see that they've spent £90k on a car and I'm sure their chequebook will be opened at other dealerships than Audi.
So, in order to keep the production lines running, I expect lots more hype like this.
I think it's a publicity stunt and would expect a few more based around the R8. I believe sales will slacken off next year after initial hype has died down.
Although very well road tested by many mags, I think many real world punters with £90K to spend will see it as a fancy TT, which in turn is seen as just a fancy Golf. They want people to see that they've spent £90k on a car and I'm sure their chequebook will be opened at other dealerships than Audi.
So, in order to keep the production lines running, I expect lots more hype like this.
The diesel-engine is big & heavy. The boot ist gone. The wohle car is 300kg heavier than the V8-petrol version and probably more than a similar powered turboed-petrol-version. Weight, as we all know, spoils everything.
This car is more about marketing. Audi has excellent diesel-know-how. In the same house are Porsches, Lamborghinis and even the mighty Bugatti. So it is indeed very clever to demonstrate Audi's diesel-knowhow and mix it up with some emotions. If that car can help establishing diesel-engines in the USA, we're all happy, aren't we?
This car is more about marketing. Audi has excellent diesel-know-how. In the same house are Porsches, Lamborghinis and even the mighty Bugatti. So it is indeed very clever to demonstrate Audi's diesel-knowhow and mix it up with some emotions. If that car can help establishing diesel-engines in the USA, we're all happy, aren't we?
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