RE: More Pics Of Fake Builder's Van
Discussion
Munich said:
10 Pence Short said:
In the context of the conversation, it was in relation to KSIs, specifically in her mind with motorbikes.
Sorry for my ignorance, but what is a „KSI“? 
This new van will mean that they will ride along the whole of road slowly, not knowing which sore-thumb van parked in a layby is "the one", and thus keep themselves alive. Riiiight.
d wasters.Jasper Gilder said:
Does anyone know who actually owns this van? It's six years old and may well have been sold off to a builder who has probably had it repainted so it doesn't look like a scamera van
10 Pence Short said:
Already spoken to the partnership last week.
The van IS being used for speed detection, as the marked vans were having "no impact whatsoever".
They are planning to introduce more unmarked vans in Derbyshire.
The van IS being used for speed detection, as the marked vans were having "no impact whatsoever".
They are planning to introduce more unmarked vans in Derbyshire.
Using the van in this way seems to me to have some clear ramifications for the Chief Constable of Derbyshire Police (Mr Creeedon) under the term of the Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act 2000.
The Law
It seems to me (Part II: Section 26)that the use of this van is certainly "Covert Surveillance" and may arguably be "Intrusive Surveillance". If that is the case, then a 'Directed Surveillance Authority' needs to be made and authorised by
Covert Surveillance...Superintendant
Intrusive Surveillance...Chief Constable
Maybe a call to the Office of Surveillance Commissioners might be worth a go.
Edit for the right brackets to make the linky work
The Law
It seems to me (Part II: Section 26)that the use of this van is certainly "Covert Surveillance" and may arguably be "Intrusive Surveillance". If that is the case, then a 'Directed Surveillance Authority' needs to be made and authorised by
Covert Surveillance...Superintendant
Intrusive Surveillance...Chief Constable
Maybe a call to the Office of Surveillance Commissioners might be worth a go.
Edit for the right brackets to make the linky work
Edited by Skywalker on Thursday 8th May 01:03
The BIB can do what they like (they do!) but how the hell they think they can get us on their side god only knows, with escapades like this.
What a bunch of pc prats we have today, in every form of authority.
One law for them and one for us.
They obviously didn't send off the 'colour' change details as required
(it states:
BY LAW if there are changes you MUST...,
only when it had been pointed out to them did they say 'oh we sent them off' - yeah, likely story, got the proof? Was it sent Recorded? Bet not.
That would hold up for Joe Public... I don't think so.
YOU'VE LOST OUR TRUST AND OUR FAITH...
WHOLESALE!
What a bunch of pc prats we have today, in every form of authority.
One law for them and one for us.
They obviously didn't send off the 'colour' change details as required
(it states:
BY LAW if there are changes you MUST...,
only when it had been pointed out to them did they say 'oh we sent them off' - yeah, likely story, got the proof? Was it sent Recorded? Bet not.
That would hold up for Joe Public... I don't think so.
YOU'VE LOST OUR TRUST AND OUR FAITH...
WHOLESALE!
Tony*T3 said:
J16GY said:
Im ready to open the whole can of worms here and wait your responses, as soon as I have posted this I may log off!
This conversation has been had billions of times before on here, I have had 12 points on my license over a period of years now, got 6 at the moment, I got them for speeding, because I was speeding, I was over the speed limit in an area where I shouldnt be, I deserved those points no matter how annoying they are, I deserve them because I was speeding.
If you dont speed, then cameras in police vans, in blue vans in disguise, held by policeman in glow in the dark jackets or by tramps, or camouflaged ice cream vans or Bill Oddie dressed as a green woodpecker will not affect you...
I DO agree that some of the speed limits are stupid in certain areas, but I also agree that some drivers are c*cks in certain areas, around schools or built up areas, and these are the drivers that havent got children of their own trying to cross roads in these areas... I await the bitter responses!
I can't disagree with your posting, but I think you miss the point. Nowadays if you break the law and get caught then points and a fine follow. No argument there. The problem lies with the supposed link between exceeding the posted limit and driving dangerously. No single study has shown this link exists for the simple reason that a safe driving speed varies constantly with changing road conditions. Speed limits used to be related to road conditions (85th percentile etc) but not any more. This conversation has been had billions of times before on here, I have had 12 points on my license over a period of years now, got 6 at the moment, I got them for speeding, because I was speeding, I was over the speed limit in an area where I shouldnt be, I deserved those points no matter how annoying they are, I deserve them because I was speeding.
If you dont speed, then cameras in police vans, in blue vans in disguise, held by policeman in glow in the dark jackets or by tramps, or camouflaged ice cream vans or Bill Oddie dressed as a green woodpecker will not affect you...
I DO agree that some of the speed limits are stupid in certain areas, but I also agree that some drivers are c*cks in certain areas, around schools or built up areas, and these are the drivers that havent got children of their own trying to cross roads in these areas... I await the bitter responses!
Such a small number of accidents are caused by exceeding the limit that it is puerile to argue such underhand enforcement will benefit the community. This van will simply nick people for exceeding a posted limit and therefore has nothing to do with road safety. I, and many on this forum, would prefer the money wasted by the partnerships had instead been spent on more traffic BiB to actually police the roads - remember back in the 70's and 80's when they pulled you over for a 'quiet word' if you were driving like an a*se? They used a thing called discretion, a powerful tool, and if you were indeed being a menace then they gave you a ticket. Safe driving over the limit and you went on your way with a slapped wrist. Policing by consent anyone?
Typical police. Surely visible presence in a marked van on say a country road could potentially save a life?. If the driver/rider see's a marked van he is almost certainly going to slow down?,thus avoiding the head on collision around the next corner when he "gets it wrong". What happens when you see a speed camera--you slow down!. What happens when you see a builders van?. They take your licence away!. And this begs the age old question of why do they target the honest motorist who may occasionally break the ridiculous 1960's speed limit by a couple of miles an hour?,well thats easy-law fearing people will pay their fines promptly rather than trying to get a prosecution out of someone who drives uninsured or without a licence. Those people when caught will simply drive again regardless of having a licence or not and generate no revenue!.
i stand corrected, got this off some DOT website,
What is the law governing safety cameras, speed limits and safety camera signs?
Where cameras are placed and how they are signed or made visible is not set out in legislation. The police are able to enforce speed limits by using any equipment that has been type approved by the Home Office and do so in a number of ways. The law requires only that the speed limit should be properly signed in accordance with the requirements set out in The Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2002. This includes:
* All changes of speed limits are required to be signed.
* 30 mph roads due to the presence of street lights are signed only at the beginning.
* 60 mph and 70 mph roads without street lights are signed with the national speed limit sign at the beginning.
* 20 mph, 30 mph roads without street lights, 40 mph and 50 mph roads, and 60 and 70 mph roads with street lights have speed limit repeater signs along the route.
* There are different speed limits for different classes of vehicles and these are set out in the Highway Code. All drivers should ensure they know the correct limit for the vehicle they are driving.
The law does not require drivers to be warned about the presence of safety cameras. However, the Government wants drivers to know both the speed limit on any given stretch of road, and also that camera enforcement is taking place.
Drivers sometimes think that a speeding penalty is not valid if the route is not signed correctly with safety camera warning signs. This is not the case. The only signing that is required in law for a speeding offence to be valid is that the speed limit of the road must be properly signed. The placing or visibility of speed camera warning signs has no bearing on the enforcement of offences detected by safety cameras and does not provide any mitigation of or defence for an alleged speeding offence.
so i stand corrected and i will look out for this van if i happen to be in derbyshire!!!, no ones perfect and in all honesty i rarelt stick to the speed limits 35 in a 30 etc... im not saying its clever but 30 bores the living bejesus out of me!!!!!
What is the law governing safety cameras, speed limits and safety camera signs?
Where cameras are placed and how they are signed or made visible is not set out in legislation. The police are able to enforce speed limits by using any equipment that has been type approved by the Home Office and do so in a number of ways. The law requires only that the speed limit should be properly signed in accordance with the requirements set out in The Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2002. This includes:
* All changes of speed limits are required to be signed.
* 30 mph roads due to the presence of street lights are signed only at the beginning.
* 60 mph and 70 mph roads without street lights are signed with the national speed limit sign at the beginning.
* 20 mph, 30 mph roads without street lights, 40 mph and 50 mph roads, and 60 and 70 mph roads with street lights have speed limit repeater signs along the route.
* There are different speed limits for different classes of vehicles and these are set out in the Highway Code. All drivers should ensure they know the correct limit for the vehicle they are driving.
The law does not require drivers to be warned about the presence of safety cameras. However, the Government wants drivers to know both the speed limit on any given stretch of road, and also that camera enforcement is taking place.
Drivers sometimes think that a speeding penalty is not valid if the route is not signed correctly with safety camera warning signs. This is not the case. The only signing that is required in law for a speeding offence to be valid is that the speed limit of the road must be properly signed. The placing or visibility of speed camera warning signs has no bearing on the enforcement of offences detected by safety cameras and does not provide any mitigation of or defence for an alleged speeding offence.
so i stand corrected and i will look out for this van if i happen to be in derbyshire!!!, no ones perfect and in all honesty i rarelt stick to the speed limits 35 in a 30 etc... im not saying its clever but 30 bores the living bejesus out of me!!!!!
alant said:
As a Safety Manager, and previously an Inspector with the HSE, almost everything in a working environment these days requires some form of a risk assessment.
I would be happier about the use of such things if they could actually demonstrate, via the dreaded risk assessment, that it was the most effective control measure available to them.
Somehow I don't think this would happen!!
As someone who still works for HSE, I know what the risk assessment would say:I would be happier about the use of such things if they could actually demonstrate, via the dreaded risk assessment, that it was the most effective control measure available to them.
Somehow I don't think this would happen!!
Driving at an inappropriate speed for the prevailing road conditions = high risk
Exceeding an arbitrarily low speed limit by a few mph when road conditions allow = No risk
Camera vans are all about the second point - and raising money.
We need to make this a political issue - as the current Govt become more desperate to stay in power, they might listen to millions of disgruntled motorists, whilst the Tory's may see it as representing a final nail in the Labour coffin. Boris should take the lead!
Edited by TVR_nut on Thursday 8th May 09:06
Lugs said:
Tony*T3 said:
J16GY said:
Im ready to open the whole can of worms here and wait your responses, as soon as I have posted this I may log off!
This conversation has been had billions of times before on here, I have had 12 points on my license over a period of years now, got 6 at the moment, I got them for speeding, because I was speeding, I was over the speed limit in an area where I shouldnt be, I deserved those points no matter how annoying they are, I deserve them because I was speeding.
If you dont speed, then cameras in police vans, in blue vans in disguise, held by policeman in glow in the dark jackets or by tramps, or camouflaged ice cream vans or Bill Oddie dressed as a green woodpecker will not affect you...
I DO agree that some of the speed limits are stupid in certain areas, but I also agree that some drivers are c*cks in certain areas, around schools or built up areas, and these are the drivers that havent got children of their own trying to cross roads in these areas... I await the bitter responses!
I can't disagree with your posting, but I think you miss the point. Nowadays if you break the law and get caught then points and a fine follow. No argument there. The problem lies with the supposed link between exceeding the posted limit and driving dangerously. No single study has shown this link exists for the simple reason that a safe driving speed varies constantly with changing road conditions. Speed limits used to be related to road conditions (85th percentile etc) but not any more. This conversation has been had billions of times before on here, I have had 12 points on my license over a period of years now, got 6 at the moment, I got them for speeding, because I was speeding, I was over the speed limit in an area where I shouldnt be, I deserved those points no matter how annoying they are, I deserve them because I was speeding.
If you dont speed, then cameras in police vans, in blue vans in disguise, held by policeman in glow in the dark jackets or by tramps, or camouflaged ice cream vans or Bill Oddie dressed as a green woodpecker will not affect you...
I DO agree that some of the speed limits are stupid in certain areas, but I also agree that some drivers are c*cks in certain areas, around schools or built up areas, and these are the drivers that havent got children of their own trying to cross roads in these areas... I await the bitter responses!
Such a small number of accidents are caused by exceeding the limit that it is puerile to argue such underhand enforcement will benefit the community. This van will simply nick people for exceeding a posted limit and therefore has nothing to do with road safety. I, and many on this forum, would prefer the money wasted by the partnerships had instead been spent on more traffic BiB to actually police the roads - remember back in the 70's and 80's when they pulled you over for a 'quiet word' if you were driving like an a*se? They used a thing called discretion, a powerful tool, and if you were indeed being a menace then they gave you a ticket. Safe driving over the limit and you went on your way with a slapped wrist. Policing by consent anyone?
Noger said:
Munich said:
10 Pence Short said:
In the context of the conversation, it was in relation to KSIs, specifically in her mind with motorbikes.
Sorry for my ignorance, but what is a „KSI“? This new van will mean that they will ride along the whole of road slowly, not knowing which sore-thumb van parked in a layby is "the one", and thus keep themselves alive. Riiiight.
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