RE: Noble Interview

[4wotitsworth]

dan12 said:

met this boutwood fella a few weeks ago whilst he was viewing industrial units in kent

SCARE MUNGER

[4wotitsworth]

dan12 said:

ive heard from a very good source the car is going to cost around 180k
o yes and the boss is a yank named Dyson boutwood is only the yes man. just how many cars has he built ! whats his track record ?

Being a so called 'yes' man does not demean his integrity. Which sauce was it daddies,heinze or hp.Maybe he hasn't built any cars but the team he has behind him 100% have built quite a few.His track record is not important not as much as his enthusiasm and motivation skills and not to mention his respect for the workforce which was sadly lacking from the previous MD.
Saying 'yes' to the boss is not a crime,just doing what is required of you.

[MrTappets]

There is something about this whole scenario that begs to not be taken seriously. I know that Ultima managed fine after Noble left there, but we have heard so many stories in the past few years about giant toppling brits that don't make the light of day that I am not holding my breath for a truly class leading all-rounder. Sorry, I should be more supportive shouldn't I.

[MrTappets]

By the way, does anyone know what happened to the MBR Eos, Melling Hellcat, Connaught Type-D, Lightning GT, Trident Iceni et al?

[varsas]

Melling hellcat sounded interesting. Bonkers, and destined to lost shed loads of cash, but interesting. Autocar has a piece about it every 6 months or so...

[captain jack]

NobleGuy said:

GKP said:

RIP Noble Cars. It was fun while it lasted.

We'll see. Ascari and Ultima are still going strong years after LN left.

Ultima are going fine but Ascari only race KZ1's now. Sadly, they only ever sold one road car. There are similarities between this 'press release' and the Ascari - only making 50, cost, etc. No brand will unfortunately mean it will not compete with the established manufaturers - however good it is.

[chris.mapey]

Picking up the comment on page 1 that it's likely to cost £180,000...

Surely for that money you could get a real F40 - probably depreciate a lot less as well

Sorry to read about the imminent demsie of yet another British car maker

Chris

[zagato]

I'm guessing a 20 year old Ferrari will cost a fair bit more to run in TLC than a new car powered by volvo

[chris.mapey]

zagato said:

I'm guessing a 20 year old Ferrari will cost a fair bit more to run in TLC than a new car powered by volvo

Yes but which would you rather have?

If you have the wherewithal to buy a £180,000 car, the odds are you have got in that position by investing wisely.

Running costs are still important, but equally depreciation (ability to "get out if the market turns", so to speak) will be a known quantity with the F40, and will be completely unknown on a Noble at £180,000.

They plan to make 50 annually. For the WHOLE world

Ferrari made slightly more F40's than that

At £180,000 you are playing in a "brand" marketplace. You may be sneered at for buying a Noble ("cheap" car connotations, rather than a Zonda / Spyker / Lamborghini / Ferrari / Bentley etc...

My 2p

Chris

[tgx4776]

4wotitsworth said:

tgx4776 said:

4wotitsworth said:

NobleGuy said:

Horse_Apple said:

NobleGuy said:

Stig said:

Ultima's success is 95% down to the Marlow's - not Lee.

I never said it was. I said they were still going strong despite Lee leaving some time ago.

Inspite of, rather than despite off.

While I like the cars I can't honestly say that Lee has any business acumen or ability. Most firms seem to fare better without him than with. A bit harsh as his work is behind many great wagons, but good businessman he certainly isn't.

I would accept that.

Lee is good at talking his way into a backers bank account,but when the backer does not like what Lee does and whants to imput his own ideas then its time to find another backer.He lost Ascari this way and finished up with nothing.M12GTO two backers gone now found a bigger pot of gold to play with and fund his hobby.New banker criticizes some of the features put forward,Lee throws a wobbly and next thing we know Lee is on holiday and has not been seen at the factory since.This time he has bitten off more than he can chew,Ya don,t mess with a Yank especialy a succesful one.

I e-mail noble this morning asap after reading this and have yet to hear back about Lee. I hope all is well. Besides, all us yanks aren't that bad.

Edited by tgx4776 on Thursday 15th May 17:06

Nathaniel Lee no longer has any connection with Noble Automotive,he was sacked.
My comments regarding you Yanks was not to put anyone down,far from it,from what I hear Mr Dyson is a very generous employer who really knows how to treat his employees and also believes in full employee participation whether it be new ideas or constructive critism,Lee would not accept either of these,there was only one way to do anything and that was his way.
Mr Dyson has put untold Millions of dollars into his vision of the future of Noble Cars, surely he is entitled to have some say in what he is investing in and can be justified in expecting ALL employees to be team players especially the Managing Director,so removing this brick wall opens up the road to allow other road users to move on and reach their desired destination's there are going to be crossroads along the way and the only way to decide which way to turn is by communication and discussion.
IMHO the removal of Lee was a sensible move and has created a more positive and less depressive aura within the company,in my book this makes Mr Dyson a good Yank.
On the other side of the coin though I do think that Lee is a very talented self taught automotive engineer and feel that he should have stayed with what he is good at and let the experts in body design do what they are good at,I don't care what anyone says you cannot be 100% perfect in all aspects (I am sure that Lee would not agree with me)and before anyone suggests that the M12
was 100% designed by Lee, there were other people involved in the finished product that did not get any recognition as has been the case in most of Lee's creations.

haha, sorry mate didn't mean to make you feel bad about it. i didn't think you were criticizing me at all. Besides, i'm American, i am used to being put down. Sounds like it was a good move on the part of Dyson. Too Bad for Lee.

[alman]

chris.mapey said:

zagato said:

I'm guessing a 20 year old Ferrari will cost a fair bit more to run in TLC than a new car powered by volvo

Yes but which would you rather have?

If you have the wherewithal to buy a £180,000 car, the odds are you have got in that position by investing wisely.

Running costs are still important, but equally depreciation (ability to "get out if the market turns", so to speak) will be a known quantity with the F40, and will be completely unknown on a Noble at £180,000.

They plan to make 50 annually. For the WHOLE world

Ferrari made slightly more F40's than that

At £180,000 you are playing in a "brand" marketplace. You may be sneered at for buying a Noble ("cheap" car connotations, rather than a Zonda / Spyker / Lamborghini / Ferrari / Bentley etc...

My 2p

Chris

true to an extent, but Pagani didn't exist until about 10 years ago? and they've done alright

[Horse_Apple]

alman said:

chris.mapey said:

zagato said:

I'm guessing a 20 year old Ferrari will cost a fair bit more to run in TLC than a new car powered by volvo

Yes but which would you rather have?

If you have the wherewithal to buy a £180,000 car, the odds are you have got in that position by investing wisely.

Running costs are still important, but equally depreciation (ability to "get out if the market turns", so to speak) will be a known quantity with the F40, and will be completely unknown on a Noble at £180,000.

They plan to make 50 annually. For the WHOLE world

Ferrari made slightly more F40's than that

At £180,000 you are playing in a "brand" marketplace. You may be sneered at for buying a Noble ("cheap" car connotations, rather than a Zonda / Spyker / Lamborghini / Ferrari / Bentley etc...

My 2p

Chris

true to an extent, but Pagani didn't exist until about 10 years ago? and they've done alright

True but their product is targeting the uber wealthy, which quite frankly, is the only way to survive if you are low vol specialist without a history or brand, preferably both.

If this car is say, £100K then probably only about 20% of that max is going to be profit. Sell 50 a year and you are making just £1.0m. Not really all that much for the risk, effort etc.

I suspect you would be better off adding a few features and pricing yourself right up at the bottom end of the specialist market.

[456lbft]

That Ultima is now a very successful business has a lot to do with the two years and many ten's of thousands of pounds that Ted Marlow spent AFTER he had purchased the design from Lee, getting it to the stage that he could even sell anyone a workable kit. Since then the Marlow's have relentlessly worked at perfecting all the details that make the GTR what it is today.
A Noble, in my opinion should be competing with a 997 GT3RS, i.e. a proper car that you wouldn't mind jumping in, driving to the 'Ring doing some blistering but rewarding laps and then driving home again, without it missing a beat. If they can do that for about half the price of an RS then I am sure they would sell a few. Unfortunately if it has a carbon body, and a bespoke unproven engine, I doubt they will be able to make it in this country for less than 180K.

[NobleGuy]

chris.mapey said:

Running costs are still important, but equally depreciation (ability to "get out if the market turns", so to speak) will be a known quantity with the F40, and will be completely unknown on a Noble at £180,000.

Yes it is a known quantity. The F40 will need a new clutch every 3000 miles or so. Fantastic car in every way, but you'll need deep pockets to run the thing. That's why most of them have had 17 owners but only 4500 miles on the clock.

Not saying the Noble will be an everyday car by any means, but at 75K-100K (dunno WHERE this 180K has come from!?) it will surely appeal to at least 50 people a year.

[4wotitsworth]

NobleGuy said:

chris.mapey said:

Running costs are still important, but equally depreciation (ability to "get out if the market turns", so to speak) will be a known quantity with the F40, and will be completely unknown on a Noble at £180,000.

Yes it is a known quantity. The F40 will need a new clutch every 3000 miles or so. Fantastic car in every way, but you'll need deep pockets to run the thing. That's why most of them have had 17 owners but only 4500 miles on the clock.

Not saying the Noble will be an everyday car by any means, but at 75K-100K (dunno WHERE this 180K has come from!?) it will surely appeal to at least 50 people a year.

There are lots of M12 owners that use their cars as every day cars,Noble would not produce a new car that did not match the previous model,far from it,it goes without saying that the next generation is always an improvement on the one before.The M600 will be leaps and bounds better than the M12.With regard to the price tag of £180K,perhaps the instigator (Dan12) of this fictitious figure can tell us where he heard this mentioned,was it in Kent when he bumped into PB ?
It is my prediction that once the M600 is presented in its final specification that the first years production will be sold out within three months of the very first test drive,I'm sure that 3rtt would agree with me here.

[haggle]

alman said:

chris.mapey said:

zagato said:

I'm guessing a 20 year old Ferrari will cost a fair bit more to run in TLC than a new car powered by volvo

Yes but which would you rather have?

If you have the wherewithal to buy a £180,000 car, the odds are you have got in that position by investing wisely.

Running costs are still important, but equally depreciation (ability to "get out if the market turns", so to speak) will be a known quantity with the F40, and will be completely unknown on a Noble at £180,000.

They plan to make 50 annually. For the WHOLE world

Ferrari made slightly more F40's than that

At £180,000 you are playing in a "brand" marketplace. You may be sneered at for buying a Noble ("cheap" car connotations, rather than a Zonda / Spyker / Lamborghini / Ferrari / Bentley etc...

My 2p

Chris

true to an extent, but Pagani didn't exist until about 10 years ago? and they've done alright

it should be noted thow that HP was not new to the automotive game even though Pagani was a new company, im mean Horatio P designed one of the lambo conatch updates, the man came with some pedigree, and a car which was a mad as it was well built.

[Jenx]

The £180,000 price tag being tossed around here is absolute bks...Noble have said it will be "around £100,000"

If it's better than my M12 3R then it will be worth every penny.

Martin.

[4wotitsworth]

Jenx said:

The £180,000 price tag being tossed around here is absolute bks...Noble have said it will be "around £100,000"

If it's better than my M12 3R then it will be worth every penny.

Martin.

Martin it is already far better than the 3r ever will be even with all of the upgrades available.

[3rtt]

4wotitsworth said:

NobleGuy said:

chris.mapey said:

Running costs are still important, but equally depreciation (ability to "get out if the market turns", so to speak) will be a known quantity with the F40, and will be completely unknown on a Noble at £180,000.

Yes it is a known quantity. The F40 will need a new clutch every 3000 miles or so. Fantastic car in every way, but you'll need deep pockets to run the thing. That's why most of them have had 17 owners but only 4500 miles on the clock.

Not saying the Noble will be an everyday car by any means, but at 75K-100K (dunno WHERE this 180K has come from!?) it will surely appeal to at least 50 people a year.

There are lots of M12 owners that use their cars as every day cars,Noble would not produce a new car that did not match the previous model,far from it,it goes without saying that the next generation is always an improvement on the one before.The M600 will be leaps and bounds better than the M12.With regard to the price tag of £180K,perhaps the instigator (Dan12) of this fictitious figure can tell us where he heard this mentioned,was it in Kent when he bumped into PB ?
It is my prediction that once the M600 is presented in its final specification that the first years production will be sold out within three months of the very first test drive,I'm sure that 3rtt would agree with me here.

I agree, infact, based on the Proto 1 that I drove, and having seen the proto 2 exterior design tweeks, I believe the first years production will be sold within weeks. There are a number of deposits already held over from M15, plus once the final car is announced, and reviewed, I believe the waiting list will go well beyond 2 years.

Cheers,
Ian.

[timewatch]

Well done Noble your cars are fantastic !

TW>>>