Just something to see if it works. Mod on Duty!

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2014...

Monday 5th January 2015

Atmospheric said:

I know, I know. I can't help looking. Twelve cylinders:

I can't help but consider the Phaeton as little more than a novelty. Novelty V10 diesel engine that was essentially pointless as it offered all the fuel consumption of a petrol engine but with all of the intrinsic negatives of a diesel. Or maybe you would rather have the Novelty W12 engine that offered superior complexity to a real V12 but with no benefits that anybody could actually give a monkeys about? Or perhaps it's the novelty "who overfed their Passat!" styling that appeals?

Yes it's interesting and will forever stand as a monument to the arrogance and hubris of Ferdinand Piëch, and I am glad VAG briefly went mad and decided to do something so obviously doomed to failure, but I feel no desire to buy into that tastelessly veneered dream.

ETA - Just followed the link and saw it was an A8. I'm gonna say that just shows how all VAG cars look the same, and I was thinking about Phaetons from the earlier posts.... paperbag

Edited by dme123 on Monday 5th January 15:44

3,808 posts

195 months

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2014...

Monday 5th January 2015

dme123 said:

Atmospheric said:

I know, I know. I can't help looking. Twelve cylinders:

I can't help but consider the Phaeton as little more than a novelty. Novelty V10 diesel engine that was essentially pointless as it offered all the fuel consumption of a petrol engine but with all of the intrinsic negatives of a diesel. Or maybe you would rather have the Novelty W12 engine that offered superior complexity to a real V12 but with no benefits that anybody could actually give a monkeys about? Or perhaps it's the novelty "who overfed their Passat!" styling that appeals?

Yes it's interesting and will forever stand as a monument to the arrogance and hubris of Ferdinand Piëch, and I am glad VAG briefly went mad and decided to do something so obviously doomed to failure, but I feel no desire to buy into that tastelessly veneered dream.

ETA - Just followed the link and saw it was an A8. I'm gonna say that just shows how all VAG cars look the same, and I was thinking about Phaetons from the earlier posts.... paperbag

Edited by dme123 on Monday 5th January 15:44

Perceptive fellow aren't you.

anonymous-user

55 months

Monday 5th January 2015

BIRMA said:

Perceptive fellow aren't you.

Perceptive enough to know that if I wanted 300bhp or so and 24MPG I have far better options than the world's most pointless diesel engine...

Don't get me wrong about the Phaeton, for £5k why wouldn't you have a massive car with a novel and interesting story (and engine), but the reason us lot like them is because they were spectacularly unsuccessful as they had almost no appeal whatsoever to all the normal people out there that actually buy cars like these new. I'd find it hard to justify the V10 diesel over a proper engine though, even for £5k. Maybe if it was actually any more efficient than a 300bhp petrol V8, but it's not and thus defeats the only point in having a diesel engine in a passenger car. Even the W12 only gets 4mpg less.

Edited by dme123 on Monday 5th January 18:02

3,808 posts

195 months

Monday 5th January 2015

dme123 said:

BIRMA said:

Perceptive fellow aren't you.

Perceptive enough to know that if I wanted 300bhp or so and 24MPG I have far better options than the world's most pointless diesel engine...

Don't get me wrong about the Phaeton, for £5k why wouldn't you have a massive car with a novel and interesting story (and engine), but the reason us lot like them is because they were spectacularly unsuccessful as they had almost no appeal whatsoever to all the normal people out there that actually buy cars like these new. I'd find it hard to justify the V10 oil burner over a proper engine though, even for £5k.

Edited by dme123 on Monday 5th January 17:59

I know we all have a wide variety of reasons as to why we buy the cars we own but for me I needed a car as a University Taxi going from Portsmouth to Norwich. Before choosing the Phaeton I tried and seriously considered the Cayenne Turbo S the Lexus LS 600 and the ISf Lexus. In the end despite the Phaeton being less than half the original budget of the cars I tried I still think I made the right choice.
There are not many cars on the market where you can cruise along the endless motorways and get well over 35 mpg in the sort of silent double glazed comfort of air-conditioned massaging seats that the Phaeton provides, in fact I haven't been this enthusiastic over a car for as long as I can remember. If it goes seriously wrong I will have to consider throwing it away but until then I'll enjoy the fact that it can leave most cars as specs in the rear view mirror when you need to call on the massive turn of speed these cars have at just over tick-over it's very addictive but does bring the fuel consumption down to 22

3,808 posts

195 months

Monday 5th January 2015

Question is are the tumbling fuel prices going to put up the prices of big gas guzzling barges?

anonymous-user

55 months

Monday 5th January 2015

BIRMA said:

Blown2CV said:

BIRMA said:

They share the same running gear as my Phaeton and a few instruments too. Not sure I like the looks either and the fact there isn't a V10 oil burner option.

yea that's the first thing i think of when i think of bentleys, they're s

t because there's no diesel option... jesus christ.

Indeed, having 750 Nm of torque at just over tick over as standard which is easily re-mapped to nearly 900Nm and 30 MPG would make it s

t wouldn't it.

Without wanting to turn this into a diesel vs petrol debate, the V10 TDI makes its headline torque figure for a few hundred RPM and then trails off rapidly. The W12 TT makes 660NM of torque at 1800RPM or so (I.E Its still making monstrous torque sooner than the V10 TDI) and what's more important, it keeps ahold of it for thousands upon thousands of RPM. The torque curve is literally a straight line for most of the rev range.

I get the whole 'torque' thing when representing diesels, but picking a fight with a 12 cylinder twin turbo petrol engine is one most diesels are going to lose.

Anyway, a diesel would have hardly sold, certainly not to the point where it would have been re-engineering the car to get a V10 to fit. In emerging market like China and the Arab states diesel is almost exclusively seen as truck fuel and couldn't deal with the embarrassment of a diesel, not that fuel is expensive enough to care and in this country the last thing new Bentley buyers are thinking of are MPG, BIK and CO2 emissions. Finally, Bentleys don't get used much, and many of them are used exclusively in towns and cities - I doubt many customers would appreciate a DPF light coming on every 5 seconds wink

.

3,808 posts

195 months

Monday 5th January 2015

I agree it would be pointless turning this into a diesel V petrol debate. I've never been a great diesel lover apart from the vans I run but I have to say the V10 twin turbo diesel in the Phaeton has changed my opinion.

Blown2CV

28,852 posts

204 months

Monday 5th January 2015

it wasn't intended to be a petrol vs diesel debate, all i meant was that a diesel is wrong for a Bentley, no matter how good that V10 is.

0a

23,901 posts

195 months

Monday 5th January 2015

dme123 said:

BIRMA said:

Perceptive fellow aren't you.

Perceptive enough to know that if I wanted 300bhp or so and 24MPG I have far better options than the world's most pointless diesel engine...

Don't get me wrong about the Phaeton, for £5k why wouldn't you have a massive car with a novel and interesting story (and engine), but the reason us lot like them is because they were spectacularly unsuccessful as they had almost no appeal whatsoever to all the normal people out there that actually buy cars like these new. I'd find it hard to justify the V10 diesel over a proper engine though, even for £5k. Maybe if it was actually any more efficient than a 300bhp petrol V8, but it's not and thus defeats the only point in having a diesel engine in a passenger car. Even the W12 only gets 4mpg less.

Edited by dme123 on Monday 5th January 18:02

Firstly it's good to see this thread up and active again!

Secondly, I agree with the above given the fuel economy of the V10. If it's anything like all the six cylinder diesels (even the very latest ones) where people say "they are smooth like a petrol" then no thanks - even the latest merc or BMW six cylinder diesels installed in the S or 7 are miles away from a petrol six in terms of refinement - at least you get reasonable MPG and low CO2 with the diesel six.

Marty Funkhouser

5,427 posts

182 months