RE: Caterham R500

[NiallOswald]

What's the deal with the sequential box on the R500? If it's dog engagement, are there electronics to cut/blip on up/down shifts so you don't end up destroying it? Does anyone even make a straight-cut, sequential box with synchros? In all the reviews I've seen, no-one seems to have had any problems with the 'box so they've clearly done a good job whichever way.

With £40k burning a hole in your back pocket and a space in the garage for a mental weekend/track car, how would you decide between this, the CSR260 and the Atom? That would be an exceptionally pleasing dilemma to be faced with!

[Mars]

LukeBird said:

Mars said:

The Black Flash said:

I think they use a kind of sliding door as the throttle instead of a butterfly, so you don't have the restriction caused by the butterfly axle.

Dave Walker @ Emerald did some back to back test with roller TBs and Jenveys and found no measurable differences.

It's not a sliding mechanism... that'd be sliding TBs. These look more like the inside of a washing machine water tap. Only much bigger.

RTB's will only ever give more power at maximum throttle opening as the odd shape of the sliding barrel creates very turbulent air heading towards the inlet valve. Whereas when the throttle is fully open, there is nothing to obstruct the airflow (obviously no throttle butterfly valve in the way, disturbing air).
Interesting they mention Carbon Wings, which are AFAIR standard on the R400 as well...
Those Carbon 'winglets' on the nose are inspired by those on the CSR as well.

I repeat again NO MEASURABLE DIFFERENCES.

[Mars]

cater_racer said:

IMHO this kind of vehicle is totally unsuitable for road use, the problem is 2 fast 2 furious 2 many idiots. Lets see it on the track asap.

You see it's opinions like yours that our govt loves.

An accelerator is not a switch. It is an analogue device which affords its user the ability to feed in power according to taste. 263bhp is only achieved at WOT and near to the end of the rev range. It does not have to be used at all times.

[waynepixel]

Fume Troll said:

VladD said:

What are roller-barrel throttle bodies and how do they differ from normal throttle bodies?

http://www.sevenbuilder.com/id/53/lumenition-roller-barrel-throttle-bodies/

Cheers,

FT.

why the hell do they call it a roller barrel throttle body, It should be called a sliding barrel throttle body?

And yes, I really would like this car.

Edited by waynepixel on Wednesday 18th June 14:33

[Mars]

Slide throttle: http://www.e30m3performance.com/tech_articles/engi...

Roller throttle: http://www.sevenbuilder.com/id/53/lumenition-rolle...

[will_]

SpunkyM said:

Yeh, it's getting close to the performance of a 600cc sports bike. Herein lies the problem for me - it's about as practical as a bike, you have to wear a helmet, you never actually go anywhere in it (mad weekend blast around your favourite B roads and back home) and it's probably just about as dangerous as a bike.... BUT the bike costs £6K, this costs £36K.

Edited by SpunkyM on Wednesday 18th June 13:28

Not really, plenty of Caterham owners go two up with luggage to the Ring and Le Mans without any trouble, try doing that on a bike! And you can get a windscreen so no need for a helmet. I've also never fallen off mine, so hardly as dangerous as a bike!

[The Black Flash]

Mars said:

Slide throttle: http://www.e30m3performance.com/tech_articles/engi...

Roller throttle: http://www.sevenbuilder.com/id/53/lumenition-rolle...

Aaaaaah. Didn't know the rollers were different to sliders.
PH increases my knowledge once again...

[LukeBird]

Mars said:

I repeat again NO MEASURABLE DIFFERENCES.

I read exactly what you wrote, I was merely stating why there are such things as RTB's as some people queried what they are.
I'm surprised there are no measurable differences...

[JohnGoodridge]

SpunkyM said:

Yeh, it's getting close to the performance of a 600cc sports bike.
[

Ok. I know what that's like. Remember thinking that you couldn't possibly use more than a wrung out 600cc sportsbike on the road, when I had mine. Same with the R500? Sounds so...

[dino ferrana]

As dangerous as a bike? What planet are you on?

Get it wrong on bike, default position is on its side, or flipping over the top of you.
Get in wrong in Caterham (note in not on) and you may spin, slide or at worst roll or crash, all with a rollover bar, harnesses and a strong chassis. Watch some Caterham racing of people barrel rolling into gravel traps and say it is as dangerous as a bike! Caterham 7 was at the time the only car to pass french crash testing and still be able to be moved on its own wheels afterwards.

You can drive a aeroscreen seven with no helmet and just strong sunglasses, I have done it for many thousands of miles in total and it is an experience like no other. If you do have to be a bit sensible, then you can always put the windscreen back on in about 10 minutes with the new interchangeable system.

[hairykrishna]

It's nowhere near as dangerous as a bike. My housemate currently works in an accident and emergency operating theater. Apparently very second case at this time of the year is a biker who looks like he has been through a mincing machine. If you bin a caterham you're surrounded by a strong structure which you're attached to by proper racing harnesses. If you bin a bike you're surrounded by tarmac and pain.

[LukeBird]

SpunkyM said:

Yeh, it's getting close to the performance of a 600cc sports bike. Herein lies the problem for me - it's about as practical as a bike, you have to wear a helmet, you never actually go anywhere in it (mad weekend blast around your favourite B roads and back home)

Would disagree there, tick the option marked 'weather pack' and have a windscreen instead of the carbon aeroscreen, have the hood and that's far more practical. My dad and I went up to the Caterham 50th celebration in his car (East Grinstead nr. Gatwick to Norwich) with a tent, sleeping bags, clothes and everything for the weekend. As long as you pack carefully, the boot can hold a fair amount.
Admittedly most of it's life it is an A-B Car, (through C-D-E-F-G-H-G-F-E-D-C-B ) but that's because my dad bought it as a toy, not as a daily driver. You can use them daily, it's just most people don't

[anonymous-user]

great write up

[Mars]

LukeBird said:

Mars said:

I repeat again NO MEASURABLE DIFFERENCES.

I read exactly what you wrote, I was merely stating why there are such things as RTB's as some people queried what they are.
I'm surprised there are no measurable differences...

Marketing triumphs over science again I guess.

Incidentally, DW's test IIRC consisted of testing the same set of carbs or TBs with the plates in place, followed by their removal. Back to back and like for like. Good test.

Might be on the Emerald web site somewhere.

[LukeBird]

Mars said:

LukeBird said:

Mars said:

I repeat again NO MEASURABLE DIFFERENCES.

I read exactly what you wrote, I was merely stating why there are such things as RTB's as some people queried what they are.
I'm surprised there are no measurable differences...

Marketing triumphs over science again I guess.

Incidentally, DW's test IIRC consisted of testing the same set of carbs or TBs with the plates in place, followed by their removal. Back to back and like for like. Good test.

Might be on the Emerald web site somewhere.

Maybe it depends on what else has been done to the engine?
On a side note, personally I don't like the induction noise you get with them anyway.
My dad test drove an R300 and it sounded bizarre to say the least!

[Mars]

You were listening to valve overlap there. It'd be present with any individual or dual throttle body arrangement as they are basically a tube (trumpet) straight down to the valve.

The R300 is actually a rather tame engine. By the time you get to the R500 you need an airbox to even get close to trackday noise levels and earplugs are necessary to avoid permanent hearing damage.

Actually, Caterhams sound better with earplugs in. You tend to rev them harder. Funny psychology at work there.

[galois]

will_ said:

SpunkyM said:

Yeh, it's getting close to the performance of a 600cc sports bike. Herein lies the problem for me - it's about as practical as a bike, you have to wear a helmet, you never actually go anywhere in it (mad weekend blast around your favourite B roads and back home) and it's probably just about as dangerous as a bike.... BUT the bike costs £6K, this costs £36K.

Edited by SpunkyM on Wednesday 18th June 13:28

Not really, plenty of Caterham owners go two up with luggage to the Ring and Le Mans without any trouble, try doing that on a bike! And you can get a windscreen so no need for a helmet. I've also never fallen off mine, so hardly as dangerous as a bike!

Wife and I recently did a 2 week honeymoon in our Westfield. Far more practical than a bike (no leathers, helmet, standard luggage, etc). That said I wouldn't mind both

[LukeBird]

Mars said:

You were listening to valve overlap there. It'd be present with any individual or dual throttle body arrangement as they are basically a tube (trumpet) straight down to the valve.

The R300 is actually a rather tame engine. By the time you get to the R500 you need an airbox to even get close to trackday noise levels and earplugs are necessary to avoid permanent hearing damage.

Actually, Caterhams sound better with earplugs in. You tend to rev them harder. Funny psychology at work there.

Aaah right!
My dad only has a 140bhp Roadsport, so that's under tame!
The other car I drove definitely did not fall under 'tame'. It was a beast and astonishingly quick!
Quite what the R500 is like!?

Edited by LukeBird on Wednesday 18th June 21:57

[thinfourth2]

Dagnut said:

Is it better than the 300bhp Ariel Atom?

Its not better

It not worse

its different

people get too wrapped in is X faster

Who cares which one puts a bigger smile on your face that is all that matters

[Mars]

thinfourth2 said:

Dagnut said:

Is it better than the 300bhp Ariel Atom?

Its not better

It not worse

its different

people get too wrapped in is X faster

Who cares which one puts a bigger smile on your face that is all that matters

Totally agree.

I used to tour with a bunch of Se7ens enthusiasts. The cars were mostly Se7ens but we got a few "full bodied" kits coming too (Furys, Caterham 21s, etc). We've also seen Elises and a VX before. Whatever floats yer whotsit. The principle of "speed through light weight" is prevalent through them all. Some have additional speed "through daft engines". It's all good.