RE: TVR Speed Six Design Spec Upgrade

[Horse_Apple]

jonnylayze said:

PascalBuyens said:

tegwin said:

Amazing stuff... but why would you spend that much money to still have an engine that is not ever going to be 100% reliable when you could just pop a BMW straight 6 straight in, spend some money tuning it and pocket the change!

Because, by doing so, you'd take away the TVR soul... Just like putting in a US V8, it's just simply wrong...

How is fitting a US V8 wrong. Like many others I think that this is the route TVR should have taken in the first place - either to fit the BMW 6 or V8 or fit a Chevy V8. If they'd done this, rather than pursuing aspirations well beyond the development budget they had available compared to the likes of Porsche or Ferrari, they'd probably still be in business now.

Let's not forget where TVR came from and that the legend was essentially forged on Jack Griffith dropping a 'US V8' into a Grantura chassis. TVR then began delivering to customers in large quantities with cars which used 'American' V6 and V8 engines. All the cars produced in the 80s and early 90s used either the Buick based Rover V8 or a Ford engine.

The essence of a TVR is a lightweight chassis with a plastic body and a powerful engine delivering class leading performance at a relatively modest price. Using proprietary engines was not a handicap for TVR and it is a strategy utilised by loads of sports car manufacturers down the decades - look at Frazer Nash and AC to name just 2 of the most evocative

This was a successful business model - it was when TVR attempted to move into the big league by producing engine/chassis and body that everything unravelled. This is the harsh reality of the attempt to move away from what they knew and what worked well.

mmmm, this strikes me as a bit too much logic and common sense for a Tuesday morning. I love the S6 feel and drive and I’m glad I have one but ultimately, TVR got very big headed and forgot their roots. As US V8 would have been perfectly acceptable and if they’d used the money to onvest in 21st century production techniques and quality then they would have probably faired much better than they did. However, we are now completely free to do what we want with all the old cars and I’m sure that in the coming years some stunning and also some shocking mods will appear to entertain us all.

[The Wookie]

Horse_Apple said:

mmmm, this strikes me as a bit too much logic and common sense for a Tuesday morning.

• cough* wednesday *cough*

[Horse_Apple]

The Wookie said:

Horse_Apple said:

mmmm, this strikes me as a bit too much logic and common sense for a Tuesday morning.

• cough* wednesday *cough*

No one told me!!!

[300bhp/ton]

Harry Flashman said:

My lowly BMW V8 ounds better than the Speed Six though

Have to say I followed an Aero 8 several months back that had a wonderful loud set of pipes on it. And I would agree it sounded better than the TVR 6 by a mile.

But then I always though the RV8 and the AJP8 sounded way better than the 6 also so I might be biased.

[blackiepaul]

I have always thought that I would need to rebuild my engine at some stage and though this is probably a long time in the future for me I like to keep in the picture of new developments so when required I am already informed.

When I saw there was another option I thought great news; Melling release I read with interest, it sounds like a lot of bang for my buck and decided to learn a little more. When I did a google search on some of his spec particularly the words “Colsibro valve guides” so I could find out more I came up with some one else’s engine spec – RACING GREENS! The link is http://www.thetvrshop.com/TVR/News/29.htm which is dated 28th July 2008

Now I am no legal eagle but I am pretty sure I would be going mad if I were Racing Green. All Melling seems to have done is change some of the words for Melling, I am not kidding this is incredible.

When I saw the price he was offering his engine at I was amazed because I really thought it could not be done. Now of course he has had no R&D as he seems to be using Racing Greens Spec for starters! Personally I will be steering clear of his offering - being a business person I am not a fan of people who rip off others ideas and this definitely seems like copyright infringement.

Copied off the relevant websites:-

Racing Green specification:-

Relinered or rebored cylinder block with deck refaced
Reground crankshaft
New forged pistons with Dows D10 dry lubricant to skirts
New high specification piston rings
New forged H beam 4340 steel rods with ARP 2000 rod bolts
New main and big end bearings
New Racing Green TVR sump baffle panel
Cylinder head completely stripped with new Colsibro valve guides fitted and seats reground throughout.
New inlet valves
New exhaust valves
New valve stem seals
New DLC coated finger followers
New camshafts
New headgasket
New oil feed modification to rear of cylinder head
New high specification timing chains
New half time bearings
New molybdenum disulphide impregnated upper timing chain tensioner
New oil seals

Melling Specification:-

New Melling Crankshaft
Relinered and rebored cylinder block with deck remachined
New Melling Liners
New Melling forged pistons with Dows D10 dry lubricant to skirts
New high specification piston rings
New forged H beam 4340 steel rods with ARP 2000 rod bolts
New main and big end bearings
New sump baffle panel
Cylinder head completely stripped and rebuilt with new Colsibro valve
guides fitted and seats reground throughout.
New inlet valves
New exhaust valves
New valve stem seals
New Melling finger followers
New Melling camshafts
New headgasket
New oil feed modification to cylinder head (original design)
New high specification timing chains
New half time bearings
New molybdenum disulphide impregnated upper timing chain tensioner
New oil seals


Make up your own minds this seems very wrong indeed to me!

[gifdy]

That is bloody outrageous

[sidewayz]

You are a very scary person ,excellent detective work-well done!

I think it's outrageous too!

[JonRB]

As my old physics teacher at school would have put it - "hmmm. These two pieces of work look very 'adjacent'"

One thing I would say though is that Racing Green spec is incorrect. It mentions finger followers, and of course the USP of the RG engine is it has no finger followers. That's why it's the FFF (Finger Follower Free) head.

Edited by JonRB on Wednesday 13th May 11:46

[sidewayz]

So a Racing Green rebuild to 4.7 litres will do 550bhp as well????

[T40ORA]

JonRB said:

As my old physics teacher at school would have put it - "hmmm. These two pieces of work look very 'adjacent'"

One thing I would say though is that Racing Green spec is incorrect. It mentions finger followers, and of course the USP of the RG engine is it has no finger followers. That's why it's the FFF (Finger Follower Free) head.

Edited by JonRB on Wednesday 13th May 11:46

I think that the RG spec is the one they did/do offer instead of the FFF upgrade.

I know that a few people have that upgraded finger follower engine and are very happy. But the fact remains that a cut'n'paste seems to have happened. If I were Colin at RG I'd be (a) steaming, and (b) on the phone to my solicitor....

[JonRB]

T40ORA said:

I think that the RG spec is the one they did/do offer instead of the FFF upgrade.

Yes, you are right there. Apparently it could possibly allegedly be based on RG's pre-FFF spec from last year. Allegedly.

T40ORA said:

If I were Colin at RG I'd be (a) steaming, and (b) on the phone to my solicitor....

He is. I think a little bird must have told him about this thread.

Edited by JonRB on Wednesday 13th May 11:59

[Gridl0k]

I don't get it. I use the phrase "New molybdenum disulphide impregnated upper timing chain tensioner" in everyday conversation all the time.

Edit; also, as a newbie, I've been trying to work out which type of fabricator Melling is; engineering or facts? Not helping the case, really.

Edited by Gridl0k on Wednesday 13th May 12:06

[Horse_Apple]

Gridl0k said:

I don't get it. I use the phrase "New molybdenum disulphide impregnated upper timing chain tensioner" in everyday conversation all the time.

Only last week I was in Ann Summers getting one for the wife.

[Harry Flashman]

gifdy said:

That is bloody outrageous

+1 - Oh my word!

Has anyone told Racing Green?

ETA - So they know. Good.

Edited by Harry Flashman on Wednesday 13th May 12:09

[jellison]

What a load of utter bks - Most of the stuff Melling ever talks about is UTTER TOSH.

[The Wookie]

gifdy said:

That is bloody outrageous

And yet not entirely surprising

[ridds]

blackiepaul said:

I have always thought that I would need to rebuild my engine at some stage and though this is probably a long time in the future for me I like to keep in the picture of new developments so when required I am already informed.

When I saw there was another option I thought great news; Melling release I read with interest, it sounds like a lot of bang for my buck and decided to learn a little more. When I did a google search on some of his spec particularly the words “Colsibro valve guides” so I could find out more I came up with some one else’s engine spec – RACING GREENS! The link is http://www.thetvrshop.com/TVR/News/29.htm which is dated 28th July 2008

Now I am no legal eagle but I am pretty sure I would be going mad if I were Racing Green. All Melling seems to have done is change some of the words for Melling, I am not kidding this is incredible.

When I saw the price he was offering his engine at I was amazed because I really thought it could not be done. Now of course he has had no R&D as he seems to be using Racing Greens Spec for starters! Personally I will be steering clear of his offering - being a business person I am not a fan of people who rip off others ideas and this definitely seems like copyright infringement.

Copied off the relevant websites:-

Racing Green specification:-

Relinered or rebored cylinder block with deck refaced
Reground crankshaft
New forged pistons with Dows D10 dry lubricant to skirts
New high specification piston rings
New forged H beam 4340 steel rods with ARP 2000 rod bolts
New main and big end bearings
New Racing Green TVR sump baffle panel
Cylinder head completely stripped with new Colsibro valve guides fitted and seats reground throughout.
New inlet valves
New exhaust valves
New valve stem seals
New DLC coated finger followers
New camshafts
New headgasket
New oil feed modification to rear of cylinder head
New high specification timing chains
New half time bearings
New molybdenum disulphide impregnated upper timing chain tensioner
New oil seals

Melling Specification:-

New Melling Crankshaft
Relinered and rebored cylinder block with deck remachined
New Melling Liners
New Melling forged pistons with Dows D10 dry lubricant to skirts
New high specification piston rings
New forged H beam 4340 steel rods with ARP 2000 rod bolts
New main and big end bearings
New sump baffle panel
Cylinder head completely stripped and rebuilt with new Colsibro valve
guides fitted and seats reground throughout.
New inlet valves
New exhaust valves
New valve stem seals
New Melling finger followers
New Melling camshafts
New headgasket
New oil feed modification to cylinder head (original design)
New high specification timing chains
New half time bearings
New molybdenum disulphide impregnated upper timing chain tensioner
New oil seals


Make up your own minds this seems very wrong indeed to me!

That is just too funny.... Melling that's an F- for copying others howework.

[JonRB]

Gridl0k said:

I've been trying to work out which type of fabricator Melling is; engineering or facts?

OMG, that has to be the Quote of the Week for me.

What gets me is that Melling obviously thought nobody would notice and that the Press would just blindly print whatever he puts out as a Press Release. Oh, wait.

Edited by JonRB on Wednesday 13th May 12:21

[VerySideways]

Blatant plagiarism - loving the fact that someone here picked it up though, good work!

[rev-erend]

Blackie Paul .. well to the layman it might sound the same but many of those parts are commonly available parts .. like the H beam conrods .. proably custom made in USA by someone like Eagle.. many parts are just what racers source as the best available because they are strong, light and durable and are also made to fine tolerances.

As he says - he is just changing the engine back to how it was originally designed.

Price seems very good but until the someone buys one .. then we will never know what the end product is like.

Personally - I'd like to see him use his own money to prove that it will work successfully.